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a question for the guys

Help me out with this one guys, ok?

When the Olsen twins or Lindsay or Paris lose enough weight to make them look like Ethiopans, you say they look disgusting.

When you look at Kate Moss or Jessica Alba, you think "eat a sandwich."

So when Liv Tyler gains some weight
and looks like an average, normal woman, men all over the world decide they have one less woman to jack off to.

Yea, she put on a few pounds (she's also a new mother), but if that's FAT then I must be a fucking cow.

What are the standards for beauty these days anyhow? Skinny is no good, having some meat on your bones is no good, so what is it you want?


a blowjob.

I can't see the link (websense) to the pics of Liv Tyler, but I imagine a few pounds on her wouldn't look bad. Personally, I don't find a woman physically attractive if she's over a certain weight. But the weight differs depending on the frame. And as you said above, if men are just looking for something to jackoff too, then why should we settle for anything less than our own personal definitions of perfection?

The "guys" you speak of are idiot weener wanking, never dated anything but their porn collection morons.

Liv Tyler would have to ASPLODE to lose her looks.

And as for the first group? The Skeletorettes? You could stuff them like a fois gras (sp?) goose and they'd still be skanks.

All I ever asked was that the girl didn't look like she was about to keel over dead. A little over/under weightwise never mattered as long as it wasn't extreme in either direction. The only deal killer was "Do you like the Yankees? Ramones?"

A negative for either and I walked.

I tend not to hold women to any standards I wouldn't normally impose on myself...I know that sounds hard to believe coming from a man, but I've grown weary of seing young girls starve themselves to death just to fit the idea of what Vogue, Seventeen, MTV, or some frat boy thinks they should be...

...but...if I DID have a standard, it would be a young Ann-Margret or Kate Winslet.

Thighs. Beautiful, lovely thighs. Of all the things I find attractive, 'childbearing' hips top the list. Skinny is gross and pencil hips should be illegal.

I like women that are substantial. And I don't mean fat, I mean they have enough weight to look healthy and if you were to bag them, you wouldn't have to worry about breaking something.

My wife has popped out 2 kids, so I've seen first hand what can happen to a woman's body to prepare for childbirth. And I looooooooove it.

Most men are just clueless about what they want. The Liv Tylers, Julianne Moores and (for us old fuckers) the Sophia Lorens will always be the women I think of when I think of beauty. There should be some substance to a woman's body. They shouldn't look like they'd rattle like dice when they walk.

Mmmmmm. Sophia!

Well the pictures in the links aren't really good enough to make an informed decision on a far as Liv Tyler is concerned, but she doesn't look like a cow by any means.

As for standards go, that's the problem, there are no standards. Different women look better at certain weights than others. Some look good when very thin, while others look like they need a sandwich. At the same time, some look better with a couple extra pounds, when others look a bit to chubby.

I've got pretty forgiving standards for physical beauty (aside from falling head over heels for any woman in glasses). It's her being a geek that wins me over.

I've never been a big fan of Liv Tyler (I don't think she's unattractive, but she's not the kind of woman I'd do anything to have, either), but I certainly wouldn't say that she's "heavy" in those pictures.

Men love women in all shapes, sizes, and color. ADD-ridden boys are ruining it for the rest of us. She's too skinny, she's too fat. Bah, the lot of them.

Liv is a little fleshy, but the negative reaction comes from her wearing velvet pants that don't do much in the way of flattery. You can be declared mankind's most beautiful creature and still look like crap in a bad outfit. I will say that she's prettier on a bad day than the skin-and-bone coke crowd anytime. How do those women have sex without dislocating their hips?

"Of all the things I find attractive, 'childbearing' hips top the list."

You nailed it, buddy. Having boobs is a huge plus, too.

But really this all lies in the realm of fantasy. Your average joe doesn't choose to date a girl based on how well she stacks up to somebody in Hollywood. Those types of girls are in a world excluded from the rest of us and are only suitable for, if anything, fondling material.

Ah, an "ode to fat girls" thread. A blogosphere institution. I'm a little rusty, so forgive me if this comes off as less than 100% convincing.

Liv Tyler looks glorious. Not for me those Jessica Alba types with their toned thighs and tight asses! Liv has something Jessica can only dream of: sixty pounds of radiant, shimmering fat hanging deliciously from her soft, sofa-like hips and thighs. Was it not Spinal Tap who said, "the deeper the cushion, the sweeter the pushin'"? How sweet the "pushin'" must be with you, earth goddess!

I think I speak for most men when I say that the hour of the hardbody sex symbol has past, and that I look forward to a day when a woman who needs her own row on an airplane fills our fantasies. Thank you.

As an addendum, same thing goes for the ladies and dudes like Vin Diesel and Orlando Bloom. So the inability to grow hair on your head or having squinty eyes is attractive? REAL GUYS DON'T LOOK LIKE THAT! REAL GUYS DON'T HAVE TREE TRUNKS FOR ARMS!

You see what I'm getting at here. :)

There's no way the weight she's put on in those pictures is just "a few" pounds, though. A "few" is like, five. Ten, max. Right? Or am I wrong, and 15-20 is a "few" pounds now? Take the Liv Tyler from Empire Records, Armageddon, whatever, add a "few" pounds, she's still hot as hell.

Most men are idiots. As a member of the aforementioned gender, I have been known to be an idiot at times. Ask my wife.

In this particular instance, though, these "men" are off the $#!&ing rocker. Liv looks just fine. Normal as a matter of fact. In fact, the average woman is a size 16 IIRC.

Give me Marilyn Monroe and Mae West any day. Once the other girls gain 50 pounds each, we'll talk about them. I mean, day-um!

By the way:

When you look at Kate Moss or Jessica Alba, you think "eat a sandwich."

Here are some photos of Jessica Alba. Tell me, fellas: what are you thinking right now?

Is it "eat a sandwich"?

Is it "eat a sandwich"?

I'm thinking it's "eat a sandwich off her ass."

Am I close?

(I would hit it. Totally)

I feel bad for all the guys here who have only thin, fit female celebrities to fuel their spank sessions. So here you go. A little gift from Uncle A.

Has J-Lo ever looked hotter?

Ok Here's the deal: We will keep hitting it, and appreciating it, even as you get older and put on a few pounds if you will quit being so fucking neurotic about not having the body you had at 18. Fer chrissakes. As long as you don't look like Zoidberg with his shell off, most men are simply to horny to care.

Well, I don't put Jessica Alba in the "eat a sandwich" crowd. The problem with Alba is that she's almost too perfect. You'd have to search high and low to be able to find a woman who met those standards.

And frankly, I think the strung out thin look is nasty. Just plain nasty.

These pictures do not do Liv Tyler justice. For one thing, she's riding a bicycle. Her body is force to move around in an unnatural state. Also, she's wearing those baggy red sweatpants that don't help. Tyler has always had a very curvy figure. She's never been as thin as some people might think they remember. She looks fine.

I'll bet that 99% of the dolts calling her "fat" would hand over their left nut for the opportunity to spend the night with her.

Porn star hot works for me. Oh, and by the way, that pig Liv has NEVER done for me... actually, there really aren't many celebs who do... except Kristy Swanson

Goddammit, Allah beat me to linking The Superficial. Alba is feakin' insane.

What was the question again?

There is no standard. A woman either works as the whole package or doesn't. Among the famous or at least semi-famous women I've found attractive over the years are: Kim Deal, Emma Thompson, Kate Winslet, Janine Turner, Janeane Garofalo. Very little in common there other than two X chromosomes. About the only semi-consistent criterion is that I tend to like brunettes and redheads better than blondes, but even in that there are plenty of exceptions.

Liv Tyler never did much for me--eyes that say "duh" are a huge turnoff. That said, she doesn't look gross in those pictures.

Something interesting: many men say that any woman larger than a Size 8 is fat. I'll tell you something: anyone smaller than a size 8 can wear children's clothing.

Makes you wonder what their standard really is, doesn't it?

my wife.

any more questions?

seriously... do you really want all men to answer thier ideal? Liv now = bigger than Liv then... so, when you break it down, the men are comparing her to what they were USED to seeing. and aren't liking the results. I do like his comment about the bike helmet, though.. it's spot-on.

Seriously, my wife is my ideal... there are prettier women or so I've been told, bu not in my eyes. Which, come to think of it, is how it should be, isn't it?

I don't think that outfit or the camera is especially flattering to Liv there, but she looks OK to me.

If I have a preference, it'd be for "athletic" women - with bodies built for something a little more strenuous than going up and down a catwalk. In fact, since womens' sports has been making more inroads, I've long thought Sports Illustrated (or some savvy competitor) should do a swimsuit edition with actual athletes as opposed to supermodels on the "bean sprouts and cigarettes diet."

I want to be sexy, but I also don't want to have to stop eating Cheetos! What's a girl to do???

actually, "plus size", as a fat girl, i DON'T want to be "sexy". i want people like you and allah to leave me / us the fuck alone. it's not enough just to ignore us if you don't find us attractive. you've got to pick on us. you've got to compare liv tyler gaining 15-20 pounds on an underweight frame to every actress suddenly becoming morbidly obese. you've got to make it a black and white issue. you've got to suggest that fat girls aren't just unattractive, but lesser people worthy of contempt.

just leave us the fuck alone. i don't care if you drool over jessica alba or how you get your rocks off. i think it's ridiculous that so many of you seem to think i / we should.

When you look at Kate Moss or Jessica Alba, you think "eat a sandwich."

That is not what I think when I look at Jessica Alba.

In fact, I don't so much think as "orgasm."

And then I eat a sandwich.

The bigger the waistband, the deeper the quicksand, or so I have read...

Seriously, Ken is right. It's "the whole package". I HATE Shania Twain's music, I don't like skinny girls, but there's just something so darn FEMININE abot her. Estrogen city.

And I can't get enough of Kirstie Alley, as she is right now (not too skinny, not as fat anymore)

Beth, high fives from a fellow fat girl.

Like seriously, "Allah" and "Plus Size", do you honestly think I care what you say? I'm cool with myself. I don't define myself as Fat Girl. I go out, have fun, have a fella, have a steady job, go to school, write, take photos, go to shows. I have more aspects to my identity than just being fat.

It's just what I look like, not who I am. I don't care if you don't find bigger women attractive. No one says you have to. Same thing for not liking little sacks of bones in high heels. Your preference is your preferene. Wank off to whoever you want to. But if you'd quit generalizing every fat person as the "sitting in front of the computer all day, eating cheetos" type, then we'd all be a little better off.

Scarecrow thin is bad because under a 290-pound carcass like mine it would crackle and crunch and I'd have to take her to the emergency room afterward in a burlap bag.

Liv's new look strikes me as downright comfortable. As long as everything important is accessible, padding is good.

I'll go with a girl who has a few extra pounds on her over some morbidly skinny woman any time.

I guess my standard is Healthy. She doesn't need 2% body fat but I shouldn't be able to see ribs or god forbid hip bones.

Paris Hilton is a skank and now she's a nasty looking skank.

I don't think anyone was judging fat folks' character or the depth of their lives based on their weight. The question was posed "What do men find attractive?" A question that asks for a response of what we see that attracts us. Lust has nothing to do with personality or quality of character, so just because someone doesn't lust after your particular shape doesn't mean they discount you as a person.

That being said, I like my women hot. It would take way to long to explain, but I can tell it when I see it. Sometimes I can see it plainly, other times it's wrapped up in an inconspicuous package. Either way, it's hot.

Just another point. Familiarity also fuels attractiveness. There are women that I have known who at first I thought were really hot. Then as I got to know them and had to deal with their utter stupidity and total lack of anything interesting to say, any physical attraction was done away by my mental repulsion.

The same goes for women that I may not have thought were attractive at first, but as time goes by, things change. I remember before I got married, I worked at a place and there was this woman that I didn't think much of when I first met her. Then I go to know her. We worked together a few times, and had lunch together with other people. Slowly but surely I was attracted to her. Then she started wearing this particular kind of perfume by Liz Claiborne. After that, I couldn't walk past her in the hall without getting a raging woody.

I see what you're saying, Shank. The topic itself is on what guys like on the superficial level.

But "Plus Size" did kind of judge depth of character when they made the Cheeto comment. What I got from it was a generalization that everyone who was overweight thought that way. I was merely trying to defend myself and those who don't think that way from being stereotyped further by those kinds of statements.

For the record, I've never jacked it to Liv, she doesn't do it for me. And even is she did, I wouldn't be picturing her riding a bike. She's far from what I'd call fat in that picture.

Have you seen those Dove "real women" ads? There are some curvy hotties in that bunch. Some men like bony women (ugh), some like great big women, some like Asian women, some like men. As for me, I like a little meat, but I don't want the whole dang packing house.

And when I look at Jessica Alba, I think "Skillzy sandwich".

I think the key is not thin or fat, but healthy. That said, I'll admit that Liv looks like she's gained more than just a few pounds. She needs to ride that bicycle a little harder. And put the helmet on; it won't do her any good on the handlebars.

My favorite Dove chick. Rrrrooowr.

With you on the first paragraph there, Jay. Not so much the second.

The point of the "Plus Size" comment is that unattractive people tend to blame the opposite sex for their lack of appeal instead of blaming themselves. Guys -- specifically, "nice guys" -- do it all the time too.

If you want to make yourself more attractive to men/women, you need to make an effort to conform to normal standards of attractiveness. If you don't want to, or don't care, so much the better. I think that's a smart attitude. Wish more people had it.

dude, that's just more Liv to love. damn.

Who is Liv Tyler again?

Seriously, my life is far too busy to know anything more than that she's a celebrity. Even if you paid me to identify her, the best answer I'd give is 'a movie star.'

To answer the question, TC summed it well: a little in either direction is fine.

Of course, I am ugly as sin, and still can't figure out why my much-better-half stays with me, so what do I know?

Wait, this wasn't just a way to weed out the jerks that no sane woman would ever allow in her bed?

Cause that's how I took it. Gotta be able to screen them out somehow.

Who is Liv Tyler again? Seriously, my life is far too busy to know anything more than that she's a celebrity. Even if you paid me to identify her, the best answer I'd give is 'a movie star.'

I just want to say how much I hate answers like this. Answer the question, don't qualify it by telling us how great you are because your life is so complete that you have no use for pop culture.

I'm sorry Charlie, nothing personal, just a long standing pet peeve of mine.

//The point of the "Plus Size" comment is that unattractive people tend to blame the opposite sex for their lack of appeal instead of blaming themselves. Guys -- specifically, "nice guys" -- do it all the time too.//

the point of the plus size post as i took it was to belittle an entire group of people and assume he knew what they were thinking, AND that we "unattractive" folk blame others for it. whole lot of assumptions going on there, and i still don't appreciate it.

the point of the plus size post as i took it was ... that we "unattractive" folk blame others for it

Yes, because that's always the subtext of these threads about female celebrities' weight. "Why aren't guys attracted to chunky chicks? What's wrong with them???"

Answer: nothing. Just like (to answer Martin's point from up above) there's nothing wrong with women lusting over Vin Diesel instead of, say, me. Vin Diesel and Jessica Alba are superior physical specimens. It's human nature. Case closed.

Funny point that no one seems to have made directly - How attractive you find yourself matters. And it often shows immediately by how you carry yourself.

Being quite the dork in highschool (and outside of a few pounds, not much has changed since ;) I was shocked when a girl I had drooled over for years told me that she would have loved to go out with me had I more self esteem (of course, I was dating someone at the time).

I guess that's what started my whole affair with 'no makeup' in girls. When I was dating, I had a standard of little to no makeup. If a girl wasn't comfortable in her own skin, it bothered me, just like it bothered that hottie from HS when I wasn't comfortable with myself.

My wife, to this day, wears nary a stitch of makeup, and I love her even more for it.

Not to mention she's got those hips!!!

Dude, I can totally identify with wanting to sit on the couch and eat cheetos though. People talking trash in here like snack foods don't taste good and shit. Man, I don't know about you people, but sometimes, I just want everyone to shut the fuck up so I can fall asleep on the couch in my own little crumb blanket. Which is not to say that's how all fat people become fat, I'm just saying people sling the meme around like they don't do it themselves. I'll say it: I'm proud to veg every so often, keeps me even-keeled.

Beth writes in her blog:

"I opened the door to a mannish, skinny woman dressed in brown."

I just wonder how she would describe a fat woman who is also unattractive? Or would she draw attention to her appearance at all?

mark, congratulations on your research. i'm flattered you'd go so in-depth.

i'd describe someone physically most of the time.

what i WOULDN'T say?

"i opened the door to a disgusting (or similar judgemental adjective) mannish, skinny woman dressed in brown. god, why did she have to show up at my door? she was really gross, i'm telling you. why can't UPS hire good looking people to deliver their packages? it's in their best interests, after all. know what, i bet she hates me because i'm plump and feminine. i bet she blames me for it, too."

there's a difference, dear.

//"Why aren't guys attracted to chunky chicks? What's wrong with them???"//

funny, my subtext was "Why can't women just all look how I want them to? What's wrong with them??? What the fuck is so goddamn hard about just being pretty?? These women must have something against men."

Mmmm, k.

Would any woman alive want to be called "mannish" and "skinny" any more than they would want to be called "ugly" and "fat?"

I thought I detected some resentment or bitterness, but I must have been wrong. As Emily Litilla (?) would say, "nevermind."

I think those are just really unflattering pictures. She's not all airbrushed up for a magazine, or just spent 4 hours in makeup for a movie... and her bra doesn't fit, and her shirt is really not helping -- it's loose, so it doesn't show off any curves well, but it's also really thin material, so you can see how badly fitting the bra is. And, yeah, I guess they're not the world's best pants either.

I think if she was dressed up (and not just out riding her bike...) she'd look fine.

And I think it's probably good that sometimes celebrities just go out of the house and ride their bike, and it's really sad journalists that chase them around to take pictures of them looking crappy.

You couldn't pay me enough to be famous. Well, ok, you probably could. But it would be a lot. ;)

the men who feel that way are a minority. my body size is pretty similar to Liv's right now and my fiance loves it.

funny, my subtext was "Why can't women just all look how I want them to?... These women must have something against men."

Yeah, that is funny since no one has said either of those things. I don't think fat women (or men) have anything "against" the opposite sex. And I don't think "all" women should look a certain way. What I think is that if a woman decides she'd rather be romanced by Ben and Jerry than a real-life suitor, she should accept the consequences of her decision and not grumble about it later. You can be fat or you can be sexy, but unless you're very unusual, you can't be both. And it's unfair to blame men for "forcing" women to make the choice.

Life is all about trade-offs, right?

--- What are the standards for beauty these days anyhow?

Good skin, nice posture ...

  • healthy, manageable hair
  • no toe nail fungus
  • whiter than white teeth
  • a 'vivacious'approach to the subject of feminine hygiene products

a strong real-life resemblance to Erin Esurance wouldn't hurt, though.

It as simple as Desmond Morris. A male's interest in a girl is based on the perception of reproductive success. It is hard wired into our brains. Fit, healthy and natural are attactive.

Erin E. is definitely hot, but I prefer my women to be more three-dimensional.

Well,it all comes down to the question of why women wear make-up and perfume.
It's because they're ugly and they stink.
But I kid,I kid, Liv is a babe no matter what,and the fact that she was raised by Todd Rundgren actually ups the ante for me!
But then again I'm so single that a woman with a pulse works for me.

Okay, fellahs, the question you've got to ask is:

Monica Lewinsky?

I'd hit it.

You can be fat or you can be sexy, but unless you're very unusual, you can't be both.

Wow, that's the worst thing I've read all year.

Btw, this is slightly off-topic, but when I went to the site mentioned, I noticed in the comments that someone said she had put on baby-weight, so give Liv a break. Somebody else retorted that women don't need "baby-weight"; that women should only gain 9 pounds for the baby and a little more for water and whatnot.

Well, let me say this: My friend, who is very well to do and oh-so-socially-thin, just had her third baby and did just that; worked out daily for an hour and a half, watched what she ate and gained almost nothing. The doctor said he'd never seen a woman with so little fat on her body in the delivery room.

He congratulated her about it.

But now her baby is colicky, screaming and cramping several times a day.

Her first two babies were colicky too.

She finally got her breast milk checked and guess what? There is practically NO fat in her breast milk.

But who cares? She's really thin and hot! And that's all that matters...being hot. Screw the baby's needs, right?


Don't worry. I will still be jacking off to Liv Tyler.

Gain nine pounds in pregnancy? What is that fool smoking?

A woman needs to gain at least 25 pounds (25 to 35 is recommmended) when she's pregnant, and its normal to gain much more.

A lot of that weight will fall off in six weeks - 8 for the baby, and guess what - the placenta is heavy. Blood volume duirng pregnancy increases as much as 30 percent, and that weight is rapidly lost after giving birth.

Women need to store fat to breast feed successfully, and to maintain a higher-calorie diet while breast feeding.

If a woman's calorie intake is restricted in pregnancy, she may not get enough protein, vitamins and minerals to adequately nourish her unborn child. If she tires to lose weight by burning fat, the ketones produced can cause mental retardationin the developing baby.

Pregnancy means weight gain. And after pregnancy, you will never be no 18 inches again.

You can be thin, but you will never be the same. Some women bounce back so that you'd almost never know, but most women are left with a pooch that nothing but surgery removes.

Liv looks normal for having had a baby. Maybe that baby-weight is handy for saying, hands off, Andrew Dice Allah, I've got a baby to take care of. Now go to the office and get me some money!

Wow, that's the worst thing I've read all year.

Yeah, it must be me. The entertainment and porn industries are filled with fat girls because, let's face it, that's what most men really like. It also explains why guys with lots of dating options -- the rich, the handsome, the famous -- are so often seen with balloon-types on their arms. Because fat is sexy.

Wow... Beth is pissed! You wouldn't have to include me, I'm way more shallow than most men; I don't think I'm attracted to ANY real women aside from my wife. Surgery, make-up, air brushing... they're all men's real best friends.

We are talking about the fantasies on the big screen and magazines right? I'll be honest with you, I don't want to see unattractive MEN in movies and magazines either.

Well, I think she's hot underneath all that extra mommy weight, so I'd pick her up, make her feel bad about herself, make her emotionally dependent on me, then make her lose weight and have sex with Alicia Silverstone so that I can watch.

But I think ahead like that. And not everyone is as prescient.

Oh. And I'm also a filthy filthy SEXIST.

So, what I've learned from the embittered deity is: don't bother with good looking women because they're just looking for a sugar daddy. And don't bother with the rest because they're all just fatties.

Actually, I'm just ugly and creepy so know enough to leave 'em all alone. So I guess I haven't learned a thing. Mostly because I didn't sign up for the class; I just came to here.

Come on Jeff, call me a BIMBO.

She did get fat. Sorry, but that's the truth.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't, marc.

Hey, if you've got the bread, there are worse things than being a sugar daddy to some hottie.

an UNINFORMED bimbo, is what it was, Michele.

But don't worry, I've already given my imaginary Shannon Elizabeth meme a good firm talking to.

I'm even thinking of making it take an imaginary tolerace course.

That Shannon Elizabeth should eat a sandwich.

Sad. I'm sure Brendon is perfection personified. rolls eyes

If this question is MCP bait, it's reeling them in. Liv Tyler does nothing for me, regardless of weight. I too have to answer "my wife" because it's true. I like cute oriental women. Women, as with hips. No bony ones for me.

Isn't it a very good thing we aren't all attracted to the same types? We could have a planet with two happy people and 5.99999999 billion losers.

What do I want? I want you to be happy, with a smile in your eyes, bounce in your step, flirtation on your tongue. Sassy and brainy help a lot. Your dress size isn't very important, as long as it fits.

The rest of the male half of the human race probably has slightly different standards, as they seem to date "types"; my type was always "smart".

I like smart gals too!

Smart enough to get on a treadmill.

Oh yes.

To go back and answer the original question, skinny is definitely no good, but most men will find "meat on your bones" to be quite appealing, thank you very much.

The person who selected those pictures and wrote that post about Liv Tyler is an idiot, and a shallow one at that. Don't hold his stupidity against the rest of us.

To go back and answer the original question, skinny is definitely no good, but most men will find "meat on your bones" to be quite appealing, thank you very much.

If by "meat" you primarily mean "muscle." I typically don't sidle up to the Ponderosa all-you-can-eat bar saying "mmmm, gonna have tons and tons of 'meat,'" in the anticipation of ladling 2 pounds of LARD on to my tray.

Similarly, I like my women with garlic smashed potatoes and macaroni salad on the side.

But they don't get any.

The fatties.

I think most guys have no clue as to women's sizes or weights. I'm reminded of a character portrait I was asked to do where the guy listed 5'10" and 110 pounds, looks like Liv Tyler as Arwen. I had to gently explain to the boy that the first and second halves of the description were incompatible.

And as for sizes... people don't believe that I wear size 12 in jeans. (I've even had people insist that I must be wrong, even though I'm the one buying the clothes.) The difference? I'm taller than average... and every time I hear of things such as the 5'11" size 2 model who was congratulated on "hiding her fat" I want to scream, because a five foot tall woman might look right as a size 2, but when you're talking 5'11" you should probably be looking at a size 10 for proportion.

Or to put it more simply, "Why do you like STICKS? The whole point of women's bodies is to have curves!"

Why do you have to ask? Perfection, of course. If you have to ask then I'll say that I'll know when I see it.

I thought Liv looked pretty good in those pics...usually, if you're good looking when thin, you'll be good looking a little heavier. I have no problem when women are a little overweight, it's when they get really obese when they loose their attractiveness (IMO). Anything over 180 pounds is where I consider a woman fat. I prefer healthy athletic women. I love a lithe, strong, toned body. I also have a sweet tooth for Asian women(always have), therefor Kelly Hu is my idea of perfection, along with Selma Hayek.
I have never found bony stick thin women attractive, and women like Paris Hilton & Tara Reid sicken me. I'm sure I've made a few women hate me in here, but that's OK. I know the guys are with me.

Well, since you asked...

I don't know about "standards for beauty," but I love the athletic look. Give me a volleyball babe any day.

Hey, I know it's not for everyone. But I like it.

I just want to say how much I hate answers like this. Answer the question, don't qualify it by telling us how great you are because your life is so complete that you have no use for pop culture.

I'm sorry Charlie, nothing personal, just a long standing pet peeve of mine.

You have no reason to apologize. I wish my life was so great that I would have no use for pop culture. I seriously couldn't name one movie she was in.

I should apologize to you and your readers: not for not being in the know, but for sharing my ignorance.

"Guys will give you all the props you want as long as you are hot and write about sex."

"When the Olsen twins or Lindsay or Paris lose enough weight to make them look like Ethiopans, you say they look disgusting."

Generalize much? I mean, really, how seriously do you want me to take your bitchy rants? Guys this. Guys that. Are you in high school?

Would you like to be treated like an individual? How about practicing what you preach by treating men like individuals? You can start by not assuming that all men are of one mindset when it comes to what they find attractive or which female bloggers to whom they will give "props."

Yes Liv tyler is fat so you must be from logical deduction "a fucking cow". Sorry but I call them as I see them.

Warden, you are guilty of generalizing about ME by taking two quotes out of thousands of posts I've written.


I guess you only generalize when you're irritated with men. Fine by me. Sorta hard for me to gin up much sympathy for your complaints, though.

What most straight men like is women who look like women. Which means there's a double-standard, because the camera does "add pounds." So what a guy lusts after on the movie screen, he might find too skinny in real life.

Some guys like 'em a bit skinnier. Some guys like 'em a bit curvier. Some don't care much at all.

Mostly what smart men like is smart women.

And I have a personal theory: I believe some women gain weight (become obese, or borderline so) in order to keep men away from them.

And I know people are going to get mad at me here, but I find that impulse understandable.

Well, first of all, there's all kinds of men with all kinds of taste in women. Which is a good thing, being as how women aren't all alike.

Second of all, most men are a good deal less choosy in practice than they are in defining perfection. And yes, men are harder on celebrity women - they are by definition inaccessible, and thus held up solely as emblems of 'perfection.'

Third, different women look better at different sizes. Some women have a naturally slim build and just look best that way. Some women look ill if they try to get that thin.

That said, the super-skinny look doesn't do much for me, and while there are certainly men who go for that, I suspect that it's a lot less popular than its prevalence in pop culture. And, most specifically, I think that Hollywood's standards deviate most from reality at the hips. Hollywood women mainly have beautiful hair, pretty faces, big breasts, slim waists, all of which are widely popular with men. But TV women in particular tend to have extremely narrow hips, which is much unlike the population as a whole, and not necessarily in line with what a lot of men want.