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It's The Bomb

nailbomb.jpg

This is why I will not bitch about anyone checking my bag when I get on the LIRR.

What is that? It's a nail bomb.

Shocking new images have emerged of unexploded bombs, some packed around with nails, which were found in a car left behind by the July 7 London bombers.

[...]

The presence of nailbombs graphically illustrates that the bombing cell wanted to inflict the maximum possible pain, injury and risk of death on innocent London commuters, security analysts say.

"You see what is bulging on the sides of the bottle are nails. Many, many nails," said Robert Ayers, a security expert who was shown the pictures by the American ABC News channel last night.

"And the nails are put there so that when the bomb goes off, the nails will tear tissue and kill people in the area. Bombs don't kill by concussion. Small bombs, they kill by the blast effects of fragments of glass or metal, and this is designed to kill people.

Anyone protesting the checking of bags can kiss my ass. Oh, there are prices I am not willing to pay to fight terrorism, but having my backpack looked through before I hop on the LIRR is not something I'm going to fight.

If you want to fight civil liberties battles, more power to you. There's a lot you can be doing. But keeping the police from making sure that no one getting on my train is carrying the item pictured above? I'm totally down with that.

Comments

I don't know why they don't go with the full body X-ray machines from Total Recall.

Yeah, they'd see the size of my package but I have no reason to worry. :-)

It does bug me having to deal with this, but the important thing is to remember who to be PO'd at, and it's not the guy checking the bags.

For some reason that picture had more of an effect on me than the pictures I've seen of people with blood running down their faces. But you're right, check the bags dammit, check them all if you must.

It's so relieving to see that so many people (yourselves included) are willing to give up personal freedoms at the drop of a hat. 4th Amendment doesn't mean much anymore I guess.

Guess what folks, this is what the terrorists want. They want to inconvenience you, they want you to be scared and they want you to think about them when you get on the train.

We should also allow random road blocks to search your cars and of course random house searches and phone taps, just to be safe.

Drop of a hat? Hardly.

Guess what folks, this is what the terrorists want. They want to inconvenience you, they want you to be scared and they want you to think about them when you get on the train.

Hey, you're right! Let's just pretend the terrorists don't exist so they don't think we are thinking about them. In fact, we'll STOP thinking about them and looking for them and doing anything at all to combat whatever plans they may have because if we do any of that, it means THEY WON! Right?

Like I said " Oh, there are prices I am not willing to pay to fight terrorism, but having my backpack looked through before I hop on the LIRR is not something I'm going to fight."

Pick your battles. I'm willing to settle for THIS one.

I thought that the NYC train bag-checks are done more or less at random. And that you're allowed to refuse a check, but doing so means you can't get on the train. That day. So you can just bring your bomb back the next day and hope you aren't picked out of the line to be checked. If that's the case, the checks are worthless, other than to make people feel safer.

Keep in mind this picture the next time you hear someone trying to defed the SLA or wistfully talk about The Weathermen. This is what they wanted to explode at an ROTC gathering.

I can both sides of the issue, but this is a feel-good measure.

Why wouldn't the terrorist explode his device in line with the rest of people? Or go someplace else? Or attach the device to his body? It's a slippery slope definately, but more like a RIDE program (drunk driver checkpoint) than a full blown assault on your civil rights.

It would be a lot easier id we were'nt so squeamish about profiling.

You can't just "pick your battles" because accepting stuff like this sets precedent. Where do you draw the line? Or are you waiting for something you deem invasive enough to bitch about it? Guess what, then it will be too late.It's called a "slippery slope" - once the snowball starts rolling, you ain't stopping it.

How about this: instead of living in fear, thinking that everyone on the train might be carrying a bomb, we STOP PISSING PEOPLE OFF. Why are people setting off bombs in subway systems? Oh yeah, because western nations are unjustly occupying an arab nation.

Why don't arab nations do anything about this? Because they don't have to, we're their bitches thanks to our oil dependency.

Bag checks do NOTHING to solve ANY problem, Geoff is right, it's just a feel-good solution that doesn't even scratch the surface of the actual problem.

How about this: instead of living in fear, thinking that everyone on the train might be carrying a bomb, we STOP PISSING PEOPLE OFF. Why are people setting off bombs in subway systems? Oh yeah, because western nations are unjustly occupying an arab nation.

There has been Arab terrorism long before the Iraq war. Take your root causes and shove 'em, buddy.

What Arab nation were we occupying on 9/11? Or the first time they struck the WTC? Or when Leon Klinghoffer was murdered? Shall I go on?

Random checks are a waste of time and resources in order to be PC. We have a good idea who terrorists happen to be - look at prior terrorists and extrapolate from there. On the one hand, it's called profiling. On the other, it's called good law enforcement.

I ride PATH, NJ Transit and my wife is on NJ Transit and NYC subways every day and I'll be damned if some numbnut at the ALCU sues, and wins, the cessation of the these 'random' searches because that does put us all at risk should something happen.

I do not consent to seeing myself, my wife, my family, friends, or even total strangers getting blown up by a guy carrying a bomb in a backpack because the ACLU and others sued to stop law enforcement from doing their jobs to keep us safe.

Michele (and others), do you HONESTLY believe that random bag checks will stop someone from bringing an explosive on a train? Seriously?

And why does something tell me that those who hate the ACLU would be the first ones to sue NYC Transit when someone sneaks an explosive past them and blows up their family? If the bag checks aren't going to stop anyone, why do it?

Go ahead and profile. That will stop everything. Terrorists will never work around that obstacle.

I enjoy the debate, but I think it's funny you choose to only reply to the points I make that you think you can refute.

We were occupying nations during other attacks? No, that must mean the attacks were baseless. Is that your point? The west is the target of attacks because people in the rest of the world hate our guts. Americans won't admit that until it's painfully clear we're no longer the #1 superpower.

Rather than egging them on, we could be doing more to fix the big picture. And no, I don't mean "regime change."

No, random checks are certainly not as efficient as profiling. Too bad we have bed-wetters who wring their hands and say "ooh we can't profile, its racist, its a slippery slope, it will just snowball". Shit, you can use the "slippery slope" argument to oppose anything. Hell, if people want to blow us up because we are "infidels" and don't worship Allah that's their damage but don't expect us to sit back and take it.

I have read the majority of what you all have been saying and I find myself supporting both sides. TRUE: Our personal freedoms are being rudely invaded upon, HOWEVER: Mr. Bush has certainly ticked someone off, somewhere, and we would be foolish NOT to protect ourselves.

Someone (Michelle, was it?) Was talking about a "root" - I think we all seriously need to think about "where" and "with whom" the "root" truly does lay in all of this.

We applaud ourselves, calling ourselves "Christians", which is something we all should "strive" for, in this lifetime - HOWEVER, if we truly ARE "Christains" as we say we are, why are we so concerned with DECIMATING a whole society, while another society is being BRUTALLY BUTCHERED AND SLAUGHTERED day in and day out - and not ONE TIME has any "Christain" country or society step up to the plate and STOP THE BLOOD SHED in Africa!!!???

Instead, we all pour BILLIONS into a war that we aren't really sure "WHY" we went there in the first place, when the one we want: OSAMA BIN LADEN is somewhere, out there, just floating around in the world and HE IS THE ONE WHO MURDERED OUR PATRIOTS!

What has America come to? Where is that FIGHTING AMERICAN SPIRIT that once fought and died for things like: integrity; honesty; and our reputation of NOT ONLY BEING THE ENFORCER OF HUMAN RIGHTS - but also the COMPASSIONATE Country we used to be - the one that would send troops over to STOP the bloodshed of innocent people in their homes, as they sleep. People just like you and me - decent people; people with families; children and futures.

It's too late to turn back now from the "terroristic" threats. It's even too late to pull out of Iraq now because that has become the "focal" point for all of the Al Qaeda networks in the middle east, if not in the world.

We have to stand our ground now and see the mission to completion. But MY POINT is: Where is Bin Laden???? If the CIA is so good and knows so much, YOU MEAN TO TELL ME THEY DON'T KNOW WHERE HE IS???

Think about all this kids - but, just remember that there truly "IS" a "root" behind everything. The American People need to wake up and snap out of this fearful smog they have been living under and REALLY pay attention as to what is going on all around us. We need to rise to the occassion and show the world who we truly are.

There is always TWO SIDES to every story. I don't think it has anything to do with the "American People" per se, as much as it does the fact that big oil is now the landlord of America.

Thank you for your time - God Bless all;
Stay Safe and never stop looking out for your families.

~"SoCalWhitty"

Seeing both sides of the story doesn't make both of them correct every time. This is a good example.

We applaud ourselves, calling ourselves "Christians", which is something we all should "strive" for, in this lifetime - HOWEVER, if we truly ARE "Christains" as we say we are..

You lost me there. I don't know who you are talking about. America? I wasn't aware that we had chosen an official religion.

We are not all Christians.
We do not all strive to be Christians.
We do not all call ourselves such.

I cannot read the rest of your post with any seriousness, as I take great offense when anyone calls America a CHRISTIAN nation and all of participants of that religion.

It's one thing to have our civil liberties encroached upon in the short term, it's quite another to have it become long term policy. Every lock we have to put on our doors (from the doors to our homes to the borders of our country) costs us money and freedom; the very concept of freedom is that of the unlocked door, so this sort of encroachment shouldn't be taken lightly. Instead, while it should be accepted, this securing of ourselves against our enemies should be demanded to be short term while we work on the long term solution of eliminating their threat. In practice, this means the following:

Short term: Locking our doors, protecting ourselves.

Medium term (initially concurrent with short term): Fighting and killing our enemies "over there", outside of our borders. Every one of them dead is one less of them to require us to need our doors locked.

Long term (initially concurrent with medium and short term): Change the ideology of those who produce our enemies. This is the ONLY long term solution and the ONLY way to get rid of the locks on our doors. If their warped ideology continues to exist, it'll continue to breed terrorists. If terrorists continue to breed, some of them will make it here to kill us, no matter how much we've encroached on our own freedoms to protect ourselves from them. Incidentally, some of that ideology exists in our multicultural society (in the U.S., Canada, Britian, Australia, etc.), and its eradication is every bit as essential as it is anywhere else.

Sorry...forgot to mention: the Iraq War was, and is, essential to the execution of that long term solution.

Excellent debate tactic: "You make one off topic point that I do not approve of, so I will write off everything you have to say."

While I am not a Christian, I am not blind enough to see that this is a Judeo-Christian nation. Are we all of the same mindset? Of course not. But why did 56% of voters pick W. for his "moral values" and states across the country banned gay marriage? Why was there such a fight about displaying the 10 Commandments in courthouses? What was the uproar about taking "under God" out of the Pledge of Allegiance?

If we weren't a Christian nation, these feuds wouldn't matter to us collectively. But you can always say "I didn't like your first sentence, so I didn't read any further."

Ignorance truly is bliss.

Since when does 56% equate to WE?

If this is a Judeo-Christian nation, then what about those who do not subscribe to the Judeo-Christian teachings or do not consider ourselves to part of Judeo-Christianity? Are we just renting out space from the rest of you? Are we not part of this nation? If atheists, agnostics, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Protestants, Greek Orthodox, etc. are all citizens of this nation, then you cannot call it a Judeo-Christian one nor "call ourselves a Christian nation" or "Christian" society.

Just have a bug up my ass about that, is all.

I never said I liked being associated with a Christian nation, I said that's how it is.

Majority rule is the foundation of our society. Who wins an election? The guy who gets MOST of the votes. Since MOST of the people here are Judeo-Christian, our government reflects those values and our culture tends to adapt beliefs in line with those religions.

I suppose "We" takes on a more broad meaning that it probably should, but you can't really argue that the U.S.A. is not a predominantly Judeo-Christian nation.

And just because 100% of the people here aren't the same doesn't mean that you can't label the country one thing or another. There are people, probably American citizens, living within our borders who are members of Al Qaeda. Is it safe to say WE are all fighting terrorism?

Its the assumption on the terrorists part that we are not just a Christian nation, but the premier Christian nation that makes us such an inviting target. A successful attack on the leading infidel nation is seen as a victory for Allah. Their hatred of Christians, Hindus, Buddists and especially Jews is the reason for these world-wide attacts, many of which pre-date our involvement in Iraq. People who blame Bush show their ignorance of the motivations of these terrorists. Oh sure, they claim that Iraq is their motivation but they are not stupid; they know how easy it is to use such tactics to divide public opinion ("divide and conquer"). By giving the Bush hating crowd something to crow about they are succeeding.

But why did 56% of voters pick W. for his "moral values" and states across the country banned gay marriage?

56% didn't. 51% did.

Wow. Saw that pic bottle and I knew it wouldn't really make a difference to some with an obsession about "privacy."

Clue about the 4th amendment..and something SCOTUS has upheld. One does NOT have an expectation of privacy in public, and especially upon public conveyances.

You are always free to find other transporation.

And no. It will not stop EVERY Islamist looking to kill the kaffir and collect his 72 virgins.

Neither does the deadbolt on your front door stand in the way of a very determined burglar. What you do is try and frustrate as many attempts as possible.

We didn't get metal detectors at our courthouse until AFTER 9/11 and in the first couple of weeks after they had been installed, the guards collected enough weapons (knives, screwdrivers, even a few handguns) to fill a couple of good sized footlockers. Sheesh, this stuff had been floating around for years and we were damned lucky we never had an "incident" within the courthouse (though we've had some in the parking lot).

And for the "We nasty Americans are to BLAME" crowd...you really have no clue, do you, about the nature of Islamism?

Sheesh.

If there is no expectation of privacy in public, why do police need probably cause to search your person? Your house may be private, but your beloved SCOTUS said the government can take that too.

I know enough about Islam that the people blowing stuff up require the tag of "Muslim Extremist" because traditional Islam condemns what they've been up to.

I suppose you all support the Patriot Act as well don't you? Are your phone lines private? Why? You don't own them, the phone company does.

I have no obsession with privacy, I have an obsession with the ignorant so freely doing whatever their told without stopping to think about the ramifications.

What happens when a terrorist slips past a bag check? Who do you blame then? And what do you do about it?

I think that the searches should be confined to people named "Barry." They'll eventually get our man here, and the resultant screeching and fussing and fuming will at least entertain people so that when they get blown up by the next nail bomb they'll get to die with smiles on their faces.

I have two issues with the bag searches: first, that they're just not going to work, logistically speaking, and second, that it's the start of a slippery slope into fewer freedoms.

Bag searches on NYC Transit are totally illogical. Example: the other day, I took my 6 train to my stop, and there was an officer on my car, two before I went through the turnstile, and yet another after I walked out of the turnstile, with a sign that said "random bag search." The day after, same time? No police presence at all. So if I were a bomber, guess which day I'd pick to detonate?

And yes, the flaw is that it is random. It's not like getting on a plane, where everything is routinely searched. The only way to do it right is to search everyone, impartially, every time they enter the transit system -- which the system simply isn't set up for.

Also, yes, if someone is stopped from entering the system, there is nothing stopping them from entering it elsewhere. If the police had stopped that person at my 6 stop, they could easily have gotten on at another stop, or even said, "what the hell, I'll go detonate a bus." So what good is this actually doing anyone? Because it's not making me, a rider, feel safe. If anything, I'd rather see the money that's being spent on this program go toward something more logistically sound.

As for the LIRR: Even more flawed there, as the LIRR encourages you to put items in overhead racks and not keep them directly on your person. I realized this back in 2001, when there were bomb-sniffing dogs going through some of the trains in the morning. I was commuting from Ronkonkoma then, and the officers were going around asking people if the bag in the rack belonged to them. Seems to me it would be very easy for someone to put a bag in the rack, go to "the bathroom," and just not return.

So, the slippery slope? I don't like my bag being randomly searched on the basis that it might kind of sort of maybe potentially deter a terrorist. I don't like that this is open-ended -- there is no set date for this "program" to end. If it does end, and something does happen, it's an opportunity for even more random searches to occur, since someone will draw a correlation between the end of the searches and a bombing. And I don't like living in a Big Brother atmosphere of random searches of my property -- while I may "get used" to it, what's the next step that will be taken after everyone's accoustemed themselves to this?

I'm pissed because my basic freedom is being invaded, while the transit system has yet to take other basic measures: why do we still have opaque garbage cans in Penn, Grand Central, and in the subways? Why isn't there more police/National Guard presence on the tracks at Penn Station? They're not as ripe a target as the main concourse, but on a busy evening there's certainly enough people, and it's much easier to leave a package there.

My hat's off to Andrea for turning a civilized debate amongst adults to childish name calling without so much as a whisper of a point, or logical argument.

This is impressive because she simultaneously proved my point. Just like being called unpatriotic for protesting the war, simply having a voice has fallen out of favor with the American ideology.

Well done.

And Roe, it looks like you and I are the only ones to be searched from now on.

After a couple of days to think about this, here's my final thoughts on the subject:

The pictures of the nail bombs scared the bejesus out of me. I admit that the random search idea is a mostly cosmetic one, designed to make people feel like something is being done. Maybe it makes me feel better, outwardly. It's unlikely they will catch anyone with bombs in their backpacks, but maybe such a public annoucement about the searches will make someone hesitant to try it. However, I know that they will just try another way. Suicide bombers are not easily deterred and I suppose that a cop searching a bag in the subway is not going to make a would be bomber abandon his plans all together. He'll just blow himself up right there on the platform, instead.

I'm probably just looking for a way to ease my fears - fears I have not had in a while but which crept back up again after the London bombings.

That said, I've never been, nor will I ever be, comfortable with racial/ethnic/religious profiling. It's just something that bothers me on a deep level. And you can yell all you want about how we know what a potential terrorist looks like (Richard Reid, anyone?) but profiling will always make me uncomfortable.

I've taken a new tact with my fears of terrorism: What happens, happens. I can't control it. I'm just going to go on living until, you know, I'm not living anymore.

Yea, the nail bomb picture frightened me. And I still don't care if they search my backpack. But I'm not really naive enough to think it's going to stop anyone or solve anything. It's just going to give people an extra layer of comfort.

Back to being on vacation.

"56% of Bush voters" does not equate to 56% of Americans.

Let's see. 42.45% of the U.S. population voted. Of that number, a bit more than half voted for Bush. Let's say 22% to round it nicely. Of that 22%, 56% said they voted for him because of "moral values." That makes it, oh, let's round again, and say 12% of Americans.

That's a far cry from a majority. In fact, one would even call 12% a minority. And not a very large one, eh?

Statistics need to be read properly, and used properly. Otherwise, you're just flappin' yer yap, and looking silly in the bargain.

Ooh, Barry's all mad and hurt. He sent me a whiny email like his last comment above, except he went on and on (I didn't finish reading after the first few whiny sentences, because I have a life). "My hat's off to you" -- ooh, the sarcasm, it stings. Not.

Oh well, that's my last word to Barry. I wouldn't want to distract him from his Fight to Keep the People Free.

Barry

Even after all this time, it looks like your thong is still riding up too tightly.

So you believe your right to "privacy" entitles you to ride a subway free from any search? Let me see you get into a courthouse, or on an airplane without going through a metal detector and having your baggage x-rayed.

And here is the SCOTUS decision on Sobriety Checkpoints (which are held NOT a violation of the 4th amendment).

The key word in all these events is the word "reasonable." If a public conveyance is a target of terrorists, and those terrorists demographically come from a particular ideological group, then it is reasonable that groups charged with the reponsibility of protecting the public take, minimally, steps to try and identify and frustrate terrorists. Bag searches are reasonable...having everyone strip naked at the turnstiles are not. Having bag searches at airports/subways are reasonable, at this time having a bag search set up at your local dry cleaners is not. (if terrorists started targeting dry cleaners and blowing them up all across the world, then 'reasonableness' would rear its head again)

roe, which "basic freedom" of yours is being invaded? Please be specific.

BTW, Barry how much of the Patriot Act have you read? Please point out the specific passages YOU believe are unconstitutional. Not what you've heard second, third hand. Go source it for me.

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Oh god, Sleep Viking must have been released from the Psych Ward again. Hey Rob, your Clozaril is calling you. It's calling you bad, bad names.

If this is a Judeo-Christian nation, then what about those who do not subscribe to the Judeo-Christian teachings or do not consider ourselves to part of Judeo-Christianity? Are we just renting out space from the rest of you? Are we not part of this nation? If atheists, agnostics, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Protestants, Greek Orthodox, etc. are all citizens of this nation, then you cannot call it a Judeo-Christian one nor "call ourselves a Christian nation" or "Christian" society.
----------------------------------------------
---relax, Michelle - it was a tongue in cheek statement regarding the "moral flavor" of the country these days.

Funny, isn't it? That we can have armies in Africa, brutally salughtering and butchering innocent people - people just like you and me, however, it's more important to protect "w" from the boogeyman. Christian morals I suppose are in the beholder.

My reference was tongue in cheek - of course, if a person truly subscribes to the belief of "christianity", one must also abide by the convictions. How arbitrary, I find that to be.

In the world, there should be no discriminations; no biased based upon word nor color - for we are ALL MEANT TO BE FREE and to enjoy the pursuit of happiness in our lifetimes - however we choose that to be.

Unfortunately, the "moral fiber" of America has changed and perhaps in a trend to one of "self-interpretation" of "what" "moral fiber" really is.

Have a happy & free weekend,

Wow. Came into this thread a couple of days late.

Hey Barry: Ever heard of the phrase, "The Constitution is not a suicide pact?"

The right not to have cops search your bag as a condition of riding the A Train falls somewhere in importance below the right not to have your ass blown to smithereens by bloodthirsty, bin Laden-loving maniacs.

And what Michele said about that "root cause" nonsense. Because it is nonsense.

So there.

As a Native American reading this I am totally impressed by you guys (not an uncommon thing for me walking in both worlds), and I attempt to add my piece randomly, hopefully not upsetting any one individual as a personal attacker
But I gotta say~ the root cause is nonsense huh?
Funny how that can be when it's right under your nose.... what happened in America to my ancestors also happened all over the world. Some countries were rich enough to afford more of an education on what America was known for, and like all of us here exemplify, those countries also have many individuals with differing interpretations of reality, the truth and history, willing to react in different ways.

I find this passage from above particularly disarming:

"What has America come to? Where is that FIGHTING AMERICAN SPIRIT that once fought and died for things like: integrity; honesty; and our reputation of NOT ONLY BEING THE ENFORCER OF HUMAN RIGHTS - but also the COMPASSIONATE Country we used to be - the one that would send troops over to STOP the bloodshed of innocent people in their homes, as they sleep. People just like you and me - decent people; people with families; children and futures." (SoCalWhitty~ and you make some valuable points but this one is blatantly not)

When exactly was America so compassionate? When they were slaughtering whole Native tribes (yes, methinks, decent people; people with families; children and futures), when they methodically enforced cultural genocide, and claimed credit for so many Native traditions (think democracy, now so badly bastardized that all of our quabbling here would have those old Native American politicians heaving) while sublimating Native peoples like fictional characters?
Or was it when they did the same thing ("In the Name of God" must I remind you) to so many other Native tribes across the world? Was it when they built America on the backs of African slaves, their descendants that some of us have so bravely tried to defend here.
And what gives Americans the right to be the enforcer of human rights~ or even to decide what these so called human rights are?
Why is America the acting strong arm of the world, judging but not wanting to be judged?

Yes, in my interpretation of reality America is the original terrorist~ and you can take your ideas of root causes and shove them~ if they are so much nonsense you won't feel the ream.

I value my freedom as much as anyone, but lets not kid, kids, we are as free as anyone and thats not much when you think globally.

America is based on a foundation of terrorism, taking freedoms away from others to get what they wanted, to get what we want today. Yes we still want freedom, but many Americans think this can be bought. And will support spending these gargantuan numbers on war and fighting "terrorism" when that money is, and those lives are, fueled on the very resources that come from other peoples property. The economic system alone is a sham. America lives off money other nations supposedly owe them, while they have never fairly shared the profits made on those very nations.

Support some of that "money" and time being spent on education, globally, you know ~cultural sharing. Thats a possible solution, not locking our doors and killing and killing (sorry Jeff, i doubt that would work as much of a longterm solution).
Although time is short, it can be done.

one more qoute:
"If this is a Judeo-Christian nation, then what about those who do not subscribe to the Judeo-Christian teachings or do not consider ourselves to part of Judeo-Christianity? Are we just renting out space from the rest of you? Are we not part of this nation? If atheists, agnostics, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Protestants, Greek Orthodox, etc. are all citizens of this nation, then you cannot call it a Judeo-Christian one nor "call ourselves a Christian nation" or "Christian" society. " (Michele)

To many, with good reason, America sure looks predominantly Christian. Almost blindly so as the Middle East seems Islamic to some.
I would be the first to say that America is not a J-C nation. Certainly I KNOW that religions that had maintained freedom and harmony, for eons before the occupation occured less than 400 years ago, still exist and are practiced fully.
There is alot we can do about this great misconception, and actions do speak louder than words (particularly with this technologically advanced, but not entirely free, form of media)....
We could for one let these other Nations (you know the ones that have been terrorized, including the First Nations of America) know that we are not all Christian, and we don't all agree with the wars that have been waged "In the Name of God" ~ those wars were primarily won through cultural and religious genocide that so many missionaries (right here in homeland to as far as we know away) have been a key part of. Those other religions that were obliterated through killing innocent people and taking stuff were not evil (as they were and are called by too many), and neither I think is Islam~ altho many of you imply it is all to blame. But either we live in denial of the true past doings of America, or we come to terms with the responsibility and work towards a more educated and peaceful future.

All of America IS just renting out space from the rest of us~ and there are many of us. Indeed as we see Christian numbers actually dwindling on closer inspection (despite the original misconception that America was FULL of Christians) we also see America the Great supporters dwindling too, and yes America you are vastly outnumbered. Too many of us don't beleive the hype, and will not be proud when you rush into battle guns blazing, killing for freedom, worse than any terrorist in recorded history.

Most important are the things that YOU do in your lifetime~ speaking of bombs on trains~ fear is becoming more common than before yes, but so the global village is getting smaller. If we cling to the notion that emperialism is justifiable, then we must accept the inevitability of us eventually losing that war (or killing the whole world, including ourselves, with toxic weaponry). America is not a big house that we can lock the doors to, and close all the windows. No we are as much a part of everything as humans are a part of all existence. What we do effects everything, and we are effected.

What difference can we make in our own lives? By spreading hate and lies, and by spreading love and truth?

All shall be repaid in paradise.

Again, like all of you, this is just MY opinion, and know that we all have similarly poor interpretations of each others culture and personalities.

Peace and freedom to you all. Hug your kids, and tell them it will be all right.

When exactly was America so compassionate?

  • The Marshall Plan
  • The liberation of Kuwait
  • Our own government recently when it came to giving $2 billion to Africa
  • The populace after the 12/26 tsunami

I think it goes without saying that what happened to the Native Americans was reprehensible and you or I will get no argument over that. Same with slavery.

But I think that a nation can learn from its mistakes, recognize where it went astray, and teach those lessons to future generations.

But yeah, nail bomb. What kind of mindset does one have to be in to even build such a thing, let alone craft it down to such meticulous detail as to have every nail sticking out?

It is, and always will be, a simple equation. Liberty and security are mutually exclusive concepts. As we ask/depend on the government to provide us with more security, it will be at the cost of personal liberties - it must be.

This is why it's always so amusing to me that the left wants to deprive citizens of the right to defend themselves, while screaming about a loss of civil liberties when the government tries to pick up the slack created. It would also be interesting to know where some of the commenters on this thread live - I suspect I would feel much more strongly about this if I still lived in NYC and rode the trains, rather than in Louisiana. Easy for me to take a hard line against personal searches, since my chance of being blown up is essentially zero.

Personally, I want the government to protect my borders, and I want the ability to protect myself and my personal "space". Because the bottom line is that you can't play perfect defense, and vast arrays of CCD cameras are great for solving crimes, but not for preventing them.

star

I think you are proof of at least half of your claim
know that we all have similarly poor interpretations of each others culture and personalities.
The "Native Americans" were not a monolythic people, even as you seem to be talking about them and certainly the idea that Europeans "stole" the idea of "democracy" from them makes me wonder whether such a statement is intentional or out of ignorance (does the phrase "ancient Greece" ring any bells). Human history is full of tragedy, suffering and for every triumph a failure that we can only hope to learn from.

Life is inherently unfair. Deal with it. Deal with the historical fact that Euro's migrated here and dominated just like successive waves of "Native Americans" migrated here, supplanting the "indigenous" peoples before THEM. That no more makes "America" the "original terrorist state" then it makes Incas or Aztecs or Mayans, who ran large empires with their own bloody hands. And there certainly was a lot of very bloody intertribal warfare within the North American territory, also (do you know this or do you only try to show the "we lived in harmony with the earth" mythical "noble savage"?)

The US is a giant experiment, and just about the only popular revolution for a democracy that didn't immediately proceed to devour itself. Islamic ideology which demands a theocracy dominates a part of the world (and wishes to dominate it all), statist nihilism dominates Europe from government down. The US has a unique blend of a secular government with a participating religious populace. So the phrase "Judeo-Christian" nation deals with the dominate public culture that has lent its philosophical values to the foundations and traditions of this nation AND government. It has also allowed us not only to be successful by allowing the greatest freedom to individuals to succeed, but has inculcated a spirit of generosity that is matched by no other nation in the world.

and THAT is something to be damned proud of!

This is very frightening

Haley, you're thisclose to spamming.

Haley may not be a spammer, but he/she is certainly not work safe. (As a coworker just passes by.)

The solution is simple: Run separate trains/planes/buses. One lot for normal people, and another lot for terrorists and mindless civil-liberties absolutists like Barry.

Don't want your bag searched? Catch the train marked "Bombers and Dingbats". Solved.

I agree with the person of indigenous descent that commented above:

Most of you people support terrorism, your nation engages in terrorism with your willful support.

Willful ignorance is the key phrase--you blind yourselves to the crimes with which you all hold varying degrees of complicity.

What is happening in Haiti right now (with your approval) is a prime example.

For the ignorant person who informs the victims of the past genocide to 'get over it'--all I can say is have you no shame.

Most of you folks have a little nazi lurking in your oh-so-self-righteous of souls.

You need to fear terrorism--you breed it, you breath it.

Live in fear--and destroy all you supposedly hold dear.

You people crap on the concept of freedom--for you indoctrinated, stupid masses it is just a propaganda slogan, akin to stuffing yourselves with bad McDonald's food and shuffling your fat asses to the nearest mall in your ugly SUVs.

The difference between generosity and charity is endless.....
I don't expect you to agree with that either, or even to read my entire statement, but thanks for making my point stronger.
You really think capitalism has room for generosity?
Nein.

star

only under capitalism is true generousity possible

it is the only economic system fit for human beings rather than domesticated animals