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Latter Day Nice Guys

Mormons just knocked on my door. I've never seen Mormons walking around here, just Jehova's Witnesses.

So I told the Mormon guys - both young, good looking and dressed in dark suits that looked more appropriate for a funeral than a conversion - that we were atheists. The blonde guy replied "Awesome!" with this toothy grin and the dark haired guy shot him a look. I then told them that I wasn't interested in converting, but that they were both wearing very nice ties.

They smiled. Didn't even put up a fight or offer a challenge. The Jehova guys ususually hand me a pamphlet with the pits of hell pictured on the front. These guys just smiled politely and stood there looking charming and sweet and sort of sexy in a "how can I corrupt these young men" kind of way, then they wished me a pleasant day and left. I had the urge to invite them in for a glass of lemonade and some conversion of my own.

Are all Mormons that good looking and sincere? Because I think the Latter Day Saints just took the lead in my "Should I Ever Need To Start Believing" contest.


I've noticed a marked change in their attractiveness also. I think they must be sending the ugly ones to other countries.

when i was little, my mom taught me to always smile politely at the jehovah's witnesses and say that my mother was at a witches coven and she would be back shortly. they gave up on our house pretty quickly.

Why are you surprised to meet Mormons who are good looking and sincere?

The Mormon kids that visited my house were a little more persistent. http://www.odonnellweb.com/mtarchives/000077.php

It begins with the subtle attraction of the "you light up my life" smile, and then next thing you know, WHAMMO! you're wearing Holy Underwear!

YES! They usually send guys out that are hot. When I was in my early 20s we used to get them all the time at our door, they were always young, extremely good looking and American. Its like a form of flirty fishing for new converts or something. I'd be interested on how many people actually convert who are impressed by the good looking guys.

For some reason they never came back to our house after in order to get rid of them, I invited them into my bedroom to convert them to my way of thinking. Go figure.

I think they must be sending the ugly ones to other countries.

Nope. The ones they send to Sweden are quite cute in a clean-cut, boy next door kind of way as well. They even teach them passable Swedish which impressed me.

I live in a tiny town, so I'm surprised they bother to come here and try and convert us away from our vodka and orgies. However, I couldn't resist a tease when one of them blurted out in surprise "You're Australian!" I smiled sweetly and answered "Thanks, but I already knew that".

My boys go to scouts with a Mormon troop - and the guys I have met who are visiting "on Mission" have been pretty cute. BUT, judging by the general population of the church I visit, I'd say ... if you're gonna join the church to meet hot guys, you're gonna be disappointed.

The Mormons I (and my mom) always encountered have been polite - I generally get young women coming to visit so I can't comment on the "hotness."

No one I've ever talked to has complained of pushiness from the Mormons - if you tell them you're not interested, or you already have a church home, they back right off.

One nice thing you can do, if you want to be nice, is if you have some bottles of water on hand (like aquafina, you know), is offer them a bottle of water. It can get hot biking or walking, which is how they get around.

Where I live, I have lots more trouble with the Southern Baptists. It's just flat creepy having someone come to your door and the first thing they say to you is, "If you died tomorrow, do you know where your soul would go?"

I mean, I'm a Christian and I find that question from a stranger creepy and intrusive.

I gotta repeat myself: any religion that sends out teenagers half my age with name tags proclaiming themselves "elders" has a huge giggle barrier to overcome.


Hmm...a plethora of good-looking Mormon missionaries? Smells like a selective breeding program to me.

They usually are polite but I think they have the most zealots of all religions. I only know because my dad is a former Mormon- baptized and everything.
I'll never forget about 3 years ago when we started getting letters from the church containing a balance of how much he owed them. He hadnt sent in his 10% for about 10 years, they were not happy.

The answer to your question is definintely "yes," they are an extraordinarily attractive group of people, male and female. I don't know why, but it's freaky how strikingly noticable this is. And it's not just their missionaries. All in all, they are just way above average.

Mix all those hot women together with their teachings on poligamy and you've got a damn fine start on a good religion, if you ask me...

Are all Mormons that good looking and sincere?

They've always seemed to me to be all very white-bread looking (one more reason I never felt I fit in). They're all clean-cut and brought up to believe in the power of smiling. Thus the "let me corrupt you" vibe they give off. We need a Photoshop of Bettie Page giving it to a pair of them with the whip, that's what.

They're mostly sincere. I knew a handful of jerks when I was growing up in that church but they were usually fairly devout jerks.

I always feel kind of bad for them. I know if I were one of them knocking on houses all day on a beautiful Saturday, I'd start to think being an atheist sounded awesome too, no matter how much I believed.

Maybe it's all that clean living - no caffeine, tobacco, alcohol, or drugs.

Any Mormon boy 19 years and over can serve a mission (girls serve mission after the age of 22, I think); it's the luck of the draw as to where they get sent. I have a lot of friends in the Mormon church whose kids have served missions, ranging from Portugal, South America, Toronto and Philadelphia.

They are good kids, a long way from home with very limited contact with their families in order to stay more focused on their mission. Sometimes they just like to have people to talk to and when they learn that you're not interested in their church, that won't stop them from helping you sweep the driveway if that's what you happened to be doing when they came by.

Michelle - I'm not sure about the tithing demands....I know several inactive members of the Mormon church who aren't asked to tithe; the church doesn't bug them, but makes periodic calls or sends letters asking if they can help them in any way. And if the person needed help, they'd get it, no strings attached.

The LDS Church gets a bad rap, mostly because of people (even the press) who confuse it with the sect that broke off and continues to practice bigamy and excludes blacks - neither of which are accepted in the mainstream church today.

I remember one missionary who would come around with his companion when my daughter was 2; I kept thinking I wished I could put him on deep freeze until Anna was 16 and ready to date....lol.

Trish- I can assure you, we really recieved the those letters, Still have them.
I know one of my aunts is no longer a member an has never recieved any letters from them either. I guess it's just the luck of the draw, who knows.

They are very nice and polite. I've worked with several and they are wonderful.
As far as good looking- yes:
Steve Young springs to mind!

I also have a nanny for many years who is a Jehovah Witness and never once were any of us atheists preached at. And she is actually a good friend now too.

When I first moved to DC, I lived right next door to four Mormon women missionaries.

Man, I would've converted if it meant having the four of them as wives ;)

A thread on Mormons and nobody makes this reference? (Alternatively).

Ian, what's weird is that for the entire day yesterday, I had "Now You're A Man" stuck in my head.

Yeah, all the non-hot ones like me get sent to places like Japan. One nice thing about Mormons is that they won't tell you you're going to burn in Hell because that's not what Mormons believe.

Oh, and that story about the Church sending out a statement of back tithing is bogus. Sorry, but the Church doesn't do that. The contributions are voluntary, both in figuring the amount and making the payments. The Church doesn't even keep track of that information. Trust me, I'd know.

"they have the most zealots of all religions."

you have any supporting evidence for that assertion?

every Mormon I have met is clean-cut, curteous and compassionate. the Hill Cumorah pageant is held every year in Palmyra, New York and is open to the general public. if you wanted a cultural roadtrip, it might be worth the drive. i hear it is quite the spectacle and is open to the public.

I'm Catholic, but I always tell these people (of whatever faith who knock on the door) that we're Jewish. They thank me for my time and move on quickly. If you tell them you're atheist, agnostic or any other Christian religion, they see that as an "in" to convert you.

segue into 'maybe that's why it's known as Breed'um Young University'?

I like to invite the Jehovah's Witnesses in and explain to them how this whole 'Jesus loves you' thing is supposed to work. That really sets 'em off.

"The LDS Church gets a bad rap, mostly because of people (even the press) who confuse it with the sect that broke off and continues to practice bigamy and excludes blacks - neither of which are accepted in the mainstream church today."

The LDS church gets a bad rap, yes. Does it deserve it? Absolutely! Let's not forget that this so-called church was made up by its founder in the middle of an American neo-Fundamentalist movement in history. Look into the background of Joseph Smith and see what he did before he 'received divine inspiration'. The church is a cult. It is a nasty, insidious, parasitic thing that gets into people and rots their brains and their souls. They have no valid claim to legitimacy or divinity. My heart cries for everyone who believes their nonsense.

Gee, prairie biker. Sounds like you had a bad run-in with the LDS church.

Former member?

Gordon Hinckley said some kind words about JP2 during that last conference the LDSs had up in Salt Lake. I couldn't help thinking about what the Church would have said about him when it comes his time to die (Hinckley's well into his 90s).

My guess is that B16 will ignore him but that maybe the bishop of Salt Lake will make some mollifying noises.

A technical magazine that I used to write for had a largely Mormon staff, and at the trade shows we went to a couple of the women would drag me, geek that I am, onto the dance floor. They were extremely pretty, could dance, and didn't mind that I couldn't. Geek heaven.

One of my oldest friends in the industry is also Mormon. He's a former special forces sniper, has killed people in the line of duty, swears like a sailor, adores his wife and daughters, doesn't drink, smoke, etc. and is unflappably polite until he concludes that you're an idiot, which generally means "either blindly Republican or blindly Democratic, but blind either way." He's Libertarian. :-)


I have had no bad run in with the LDS church nor am I a former member. I have many friends who are LDS as well as many neighbors. I served with several LDS in the military and as people I respect them all.

Have you read their doctrine? Have you read Joseph Smith's biography as well as the early history of the church? Their is no way to reconcile their philosophy or ritual with Jesus.

Another benefit of Mormonism is that they throw great shindigs. I used to live in Rochester, NY, 20 miles west of Palmyra, the birthplace of Mormonism. Every year they hold the Hill Cumorah Pageant there. The entire population of Utah descends on this town of 4,000 for the occasion. It's quite an intriguing story, even if you are an idiot for taking it literally.

The downside of Mormonism? You have to live with people quoting chapter and verse from that South Park episode fromt the day you convert until the day you die.

Of course, Michele, you could always be a Pagan. Spiritual worship AND kinky sex - the best of both worlds!

I'm a former member. So, yes...I know what I need to know about the church and despite the shortcomings and theological inadequacies, I can still recognize the positive aspects. It's not a cult, I can assure you of that.

Of course, any organization can be viewed as a cult, if a person allows himself to be unduly influenced. I refuse to acknowledge that anyone has the power to make me do, think, or say anything I don't want to - only I make those choices, and I am responsible for the outcome of my actions.

Michele, as Trish pointed out above, no coffee, cigarettes, or booze in the LDS. I'm only guessing, based on reading ASV, but "no coffee, cigarettes, or booze" doesn't strike me as something you would be enthusiastic about.

Prairie biker, Christianity itself is technically a "cult". I don't think you take into account whether a particular form of faith is functional, and creative as opposed to destructive. Mormons seem to be more well-balanced, more functional, to my observation, then the general run of the population. Your observation about a "nasty, insidious, parasitic thing that gets into people and rots their brains and their souls."...gee, you sure are smart. That statement is either a thoughtless cheap shot, or else you possess the supernatural ability to examine actual souls, in which case I'd better shut up before you pronounce upon the condition of mine.

Zero Boss, I took the "spiritual worship and kinky sex" thing as humor. Forgive me, I presume to here ruin your jest by reminding the kids that what one does with one's genitals seems spiritual to an adolescent boy, not so much so after enough life is lived to get a little perspective. Quite a few Pagans seem to have had their development a tad arrested that way. Subjective judgement on my part of course, it's just that Mormons don't annoy me the way Pagans do. 'Never again the burnings', my ass. The Saints had the U.S. Army sent against them, but you never hear a constant high-pitched whining from them.

Having grown up Mormon, I speak from experience. I have had bad run-ins with LDS Missionaries and members of the church who are zealots, but for the most part, they are very nice people. My brother served on a Mission as well as all of my male Utah-residing cousins. (and yes, the cousins are very cute!)
I have had just as many bad experiences with Jehovah's Witnesses, Baptists, Pentecostals, Catholics, etc. So it isn't limited to Mormons.
If you want to know more about how they are as a religious group, look into their welfare system or the Geneological Society. (The US gov't could take a lesson from them regarding welfare!) The most important thing to a Mormon is their family...their immediate family as well as their family of church members.

Good point about the church welfare system, Anna.

The LDS church encourages and assists its members to be self-sufficient and prepare for the worst by accumulating a one-year supply of food/goods needed for a family's basic survival in case of disaster or economic downturn. The church will assist its members (and non-members as well) and strongly discourages, among its precepts, relying on the government for handouts; that's one of the more positive elements. They also have an extensive networking system for employment opportunities.

The LDS church encourages and assists its members to be self-sufficient and prepare for the worst by accumulating a one-year supply of food/goods needed for a family's basic survival in case of disaster or economic downturn.

I already do that. My obsession with bulk shopping and hoarding is legendary.

See? I'm already on my way to being a good Mormon.

LOL...there ya go, then.

And you're even one step ahead of the game, since you've got the action figure collections and other fun stuff going for you, too!

Mormons are also notorious for bringing over casseroles when there's a death or birth in the family, when someone is sick or any other reason they can think of for bringing a casserole, cake, jello salad...etc.

No kidding. Before we joined the church, one of my sons had appendicitis. He was only 8, poor guy - and I didn't have to cook for almost two weeks, even though my son was up and riding his bike two days after his surgery...lol.

My Dad (atheist) always used to hire Mormons for his (small) business, because they were friendly, diligent, and scrupulously honest.

My brother converted. Dad used to mutter about some of the less pleasant aspects of the church, like high pressure to marry and start having children relatively early in life compared to mainstream America, but on the whole shrugged and decided they were a good influence on him.

prairie biker

No one should give a flat flapjack about where a person gets their beliefs as long as their behavior towards their fellow human beings is civil. If my neighbor is warm, friendly, helpful, not nosey nor gossipy, I could care less if his values came from the Bible or from rubbing blue mud in his navel while chanting naked under the full moon.

Mormons have some pretty decent values and demonstrate some pretty decent behavior, so it's no great shakes to me whether they walk the same path as mainline Christianity or follow the Angel Macaroni ... (family joke..my paternal grandmother was a Jack Mormon and as a little kid that's what I thought I had heard when Grandma was in the cups, had laid her dentures on the dinner table and was trying to explain the religion to me).

jello salad

Stop it, Anna, stop it, stop it . . . ai, the flashbacks. My mother still makes that abomination, but I've never eaten so much as a bite of it. Nasty stuff, nasty. I refuse to believe Michele would ever forsake zeppole for that. No.

Arrrrgggh. I know I haven't posted here in forever, but don't let them in! Do not let them in! REPEAT--run for the hills.

I've slowly been sliding out of Mormonism like the good little heretic I am, and while I will point out that the individual Mormons can all be nice, lovely people, when they mass up, they get downright controlling. My boyfriend calls them the Church of the Hive Mind, and folks on the ex-Mo boards call 'em the Morg (like the Borg). They have this insane bureaucracy which will hunt you down no matter where you are and inundate you with missionaries, bishops, and other priesthood-bearing folks once you are on their records, and it's a pain in the arse to get them to take you off of the records.

I'm coming really close to calling them a cult, btw. (Which might be a tad different than my stance when I last posted on Mormons here.) Cults have a number of traits in common, not the least of which is control of personal habits, personality worship within the church leaders, shunning of former members to the point of urging family members to drop contact from family outside the church, special terms for people outside the religion, etc. The LDS church exhibits plenty of these traits. For a church which claims to be about family, and lauds stories of converts who were persecuted by home and family, they sure don't seem to care about the number of homes they break up when one spouse leaves the church. (I've had friends who were advised by their local bishop to leave their husbands, because their husbands left the church. Not because they cheated or abused or did anything bad, but merely because their husbands didn't believe any more.)

And as for dogma....wooo...do not get me started. The LDS church is a sexist, racist organisation whose original founder smashed printing presses, ganked his rituals from the Masons, seduced other men's wives and his own underage wards, and had his own personal Mafia called the Danites. The revisionist history that I got fed during my years of seminary hid most of these facts from me, but unfortunately, the patriarchal and racist undertones of the religion are still pretty prevalent.

For the people who are giving prairie biker a hard time about the word cult...please consider some of the following: Utah women have one of the highest rates of Prozac intake in this country, one of the highest rates of depression. Utah has one of the worst student to teacher ratios in the US. Utah is also one of the highest states for the proliferation of bankruptcy and financial scams. And in Utah, there are well above 40,000 polygamists perpetuating a Taliban-like lifestyle--women married to men as soon as they are fertile and passed around like so much chattel. Young boys murdered or kicked out of towns because they represent competition for the elder men. The polygamists are the remnants of the same root church as the LDS Mormons that you see on the street, but they are not brought to account by local and state government because the LDS church more-or-less runs Utah (and a great chunk of Arizona, where there are also polygs) and the LDS church doesn't want the polygamy thing raked up again. Orrin Hatch, despite being shown statistics on child marriages and deaths within polygamy communities, said he couldn't find a better batch of human beings.

I grew up in Utah, btw. I have lots of really good memories of my nice, sheltered, wonderful childhood...but then I belonged to the majority church. As I started to follow my own theological path, needless to say, a lot of my experiences began to get a lot more negative. Try being the outsider, the minority in what comes perilously close to a theocracy state. Realise that your lifestyle is controlled by the main religion whether you like it or not. Imagine getting kicked out of your housing, for example, because you hadn't taken enough religion classes for the semester. (This just happened to my little brother, actually. He has a good reason, but he can't actually penetrate the bureaucracy to explain himself. In the meantime, he's scrambling to find a place to live.) Imagine being told that you can't write or paint certain things because it's not moral or that it's perceived as pornographic. (I was an art major and my landlady made me take down my art, which didn't even show anything shocking or titillating. If I hadn't complied, I could have lost my housing. BYU Housing has taken over Utah County, and it's a curse.) Imagine being told over and over again that your role in life, and indeed, in the afterlife, consisted only of bearing children. Nevermind any other talents or interests you may have had. Imagine being assessed for your value as an adult based upon whether or not you are married. You could be out of debt, completely clean, in a stable relationship, and still considered second class by all of your family-loving relatives, merely because you aren't married. I can see a lot of good things about the LDS church, but what they have isn't unique to them, and while what they have going against them isn't entirely unique to them either,
it's not healthy for them to clump up and pretend that their little world view is the only one, and nobody else's matters. Try fighting for your own personality and beliefs in the middle of a raging theocracy sometime.

(BTW, they don't just send the cute ones. They send all the ones they can get their hands on. And the boys go because A) they can't get sex until they get married, and B) Mormon girls are told to marry only boys that went on missions. By the time I was 21, a third to almost half of my graduating class was married. And having kids, because that's what the prophet tells 'em to do. "Don't delay having a family because of education or financial reasons." That's not just local clergy saying that...that's the high-ups. See above for Utah's bankruptcy and Prozac rates. Ask my mom why she had five kids in SIX years. Because the prophet told her to. That's not anecdotal either. The average number of kids per family in one of my high school classes was six. My family was under average with only five.)

Final note: Most of what I've said here applies mostly to Utah Mormons. (Well, and some of the Cali and Arizona and Idaho Mormons. Anybody in the so-called Mormon corridor. Most of the Mormons in other places, like the East Coast, all seem to be fairly rational individuals capable of religious tolerance. They haven't been so totally submerged in the culture that they can't think for themselves.)

Oh, and while I'm dispensing details on Mormon behavioural patterns and interesting statistics: I wish I could remember where I read this recently, but because of their Word of Wisdom, a doctrine based on dietery habits, Mormons do tend to be fairly low in certains types of cancers. All except prostate cancer.

Scientists have recently been exploring a link between reduced rates of prostate cancer and masturbation. Since Mormons have a strong prohibition against masturbation, it might account for the strange anamoly.

(Keeping this in mind, if you do manage to corrupt those nice young men, think how greatful and enthusiastic they will be after years of frustration.)

"Are all Mormons that good looking and sincere?"

Uh, yeah. All the ones I've ever met.

Thanks, Pixel. I just want to point out that I didn't bash individuals or values, only the entity of the LDS church and its founder. The 'big picture' is a very important thing to consider when talking about the LDS (and also please note, I'm not talking about the offshoot from them that legally own the term 'Mormon', they're really out there). Look at their actions and programs and see if you can't decipher their long range goals.

And don't get me started on buying the souls of your long dead relatives out of purgatory. The Catholics at least had the decency to abolish that practice in the middle ages.

Yes, they have good, wholesome values. Yes they have strong community oriented behaviors. But look at those practices and behaviors as a whole and ask 'why?'.

Trish- do you still have your id card to get into the temple or did you ever have one? Did they teach you the secret handshake and sign you need to enter heaven?

How did I know you'd ask about that?

Out of respect for the religion - even though I no longer agree with many aspects of it - I'll decline to answer.

My brother once allowed the JW's to talk for about 15 minutes. He then asked if they believe in life on other planets.

"No" was their reply.

"Ah! Well, then, I am living proof you are wrong. Good bye"

He closed the door. The two stood on the doorstep for 5 minutes, before moving on to the next house.

I found the group tempting based on the individuals I knew (all wonderful salt of the earth types) but the theology was just too whacky for me.

Theological wackiness is in the eye of the beholder. Ask a Muslim about the "logic" of Christianity sometime, or about God "begetting" a son just to kill him off. They'll have plenty to say.

Let's give it up for PixelFish for such sound reasoning. Is it your practice to take the most extreme examples and talk about them as if they were general practice? I'm sorry you feel so strongly against any group of people just trying to do their best.

"Are all Mormons that good looking and sincere? "

I can't attest to all 12 million of us, but I know I am.

"the boys go because A) they can't get sex until they get married, and B) Mormon girls are told to marry only boys that went on missions."

Ha ha!

YetiBoy: I have hundreds of examples I could draw from. I know one or two anecdotes do not a trend make--however, I've seen these patterns occur over and over again. The ones I tell you about happened to me directly, but if you look around online, there are thousands of disaffected Mormons who have run up against the rigidity of the LDS church's dogma and doctrines. As far as trends in young marriages, bankruptcy, post-partum depression, prozac use and abuse in the state of Utah--that's all factual and you can look it up.

You will also note that I said that not all the bad stuff is unique to the Mormons, but then neither is the good stuff.

That said, I have years of experience in a church which consistently undervalued me and all the other women and girls I grew up with, which told me what I was going to do with my life, and which still punishes me (however unintentionally) over and over again for choosing to leave. As Prairie Biker noted, we are not trying to bash individual Mormons, but the church, which we feel is repressive and unhealthy when taken as a whole. (And especially the monotheistic tendancies that the LDS church likes to encourage in Utah.)

You said you feel sorry that I feel so strongly about a group of people who are only trying to do their best....well, I feel strongly about the organisation that teaches them that it's okay to abandon years of friendships and familial relationships because you've had a crisis of faith and because you honestly can't believe the same things as everybody else around you. Imagine having the entire foundations of your belief shift under you, and realising you have nobody to turn to? That all your friends and family don't understand, can't understand, and don't want to understand? At the very least, coming out to my family as a non-believer was fairly similar to what gay people go through in outing themselves to hostile family members. (And if you want to imagine the poor gay Mormon who has to out themselves twice, as a gay, and a non-believer, that's a hell I wouldn't want to have to go through.)

I'm sorry, but this is pretty personal to me. I, along with many other ex-Mormons, have to suffer the idea of breaking the news to our family. Will it kill Granny? Will our mother ever stop crying whenever we talk on the phone? Will we ever have another conversation that doesn't revolve around my leaving the church?

If you are Mormon, then you know how much the LDS church embues every aspect of your daily life... How there are directives about what to wear, what to eat, what movies you can see, what people you can hang out with (I do wonder how my brother gets around answering the "Do you associate with apostates?" question in his yearly temple interviews) and how much time the callings of the church take...you know how it has crept into every crevice of your life, and when you leave, it's hard for your family members to not take it personally. The church, sadly, is much harsher on those who leave to follow the dictates of their own conscience than it is to many never-been-Mormon folk: after all, they don't have much hope for reconverting the ones who leave.

If you aren't Mormon, then maybe you've never felt the pressure of swimming against a huge vast current of combined sociological and theological forces. If it was just the dogma, I could perhaps ignore it easily enough--I ignore the dogmas of hundreds of others of churches just fine.

And as for people doing their best...well, it's an old saying but still true: the road to hell is paved with good intentions. And what works for some people may not work for others--you can pound a square peg into a round hole, but you're going to end up shaving off some of the peg and reshaping it, and changing its nature. Again, I say, there are some good things in Mormonism, but they are NOT UNIQUE to Mormonism, and in my opinion, not worth putting up with the psychological damage you get in the meantime.

(Apologies to Michele if this is getting too heated. I've been away for a while, so I may not be in tune with the current tenor of the board.)

I'm sincerely sorry you've had such bad experiences with the Mormon church. I wonder, though, what your intent is. Are you here to "open our minds"? "If you only knew the TRUTH about those damn Mormons, then you'd realize..." Your posts are laundry lists of issues you have with Mormons, but Michele's original post had nothing to do with this. Are you steaming with so much hostility that any post about Mormons brings out such long-winded explanations about how wrong they are?

I'm sorry, but from what I know of Mormons I just don't believe you. Jesus taught, "by their fruits ye shall know them" and they have borne good fruits.

It sounds like PixelFish's family is an outlier. There are plenty of folks who leave the Mormons and maintain close family and friends inside. Likewise, there are plenty who stay without feeling repressed, opressed or depressed.

Yeti: You do make a good point...Michele's original post had nothing to do with it. I was responding more to things that occured in the comments--namely the people who were jumping on Prairie Biker for explaining that the Mormon Church shows some aspects of culthood. You've had good experience with the Mormons, I've had some less good experiences. Your conclusion is that since you can only see good things, they must be good. I argue that there is a lot of negativity mixed in with the good.

Somehow I can't see Michele up and joining the Mormons just for the hot young men, and I'm aware that her original post is tongue in cheek. My first response was probably a bit off-the-cuff and prompted by recent events. But that doesn't lessen the fact that these are my experiences and fruits from the Mormon tree as well.

Out of curiosity, Yeti, what's your own religious background?

Hey everybody my name is jacob i have been mormon all my life im 14 and being mormon is cool the guys that are on there missions are so cool they love talking to ppl and telling them about are church if u have any questions u can ask me u can email me or IM me at SeekingSolitary o yea and the mormon church has this thing called tithing not sure if thats how u spell it but anyways its where u pay 10% of the money u get paid and that money goes to people with no food and building new temples and stuff and in return u get blessings. well cya latter talk to me if u want on aim cuz i need someone to talk to about this stuff

I'm LDS. I'll admit, I was a lot cuter when I was on my mission. And any offer to "convert" me would have led to a lot of blushing and me staring at my shoes as I made a hasty exit. And I'm glad those Missionaries respected your response that you were atheists, and really not interested.

Yetiboy - yes, I know this has nothing to do with the original topic, but anytime people start throwing all this awe and amazement towards the LDS I have a compulsion to stand and shout a warning that there is something sinister behind it all.

'by their fruits ye shall know them'

The LDS are still sowing. It will be a long time before they reap their harvest. But damn, are they getting ready for it. The LDS church has one of the most solid (and definitely admirable) investment portfolios in the world. They are in it for the long haul. They even make investments that no living person would consider like stands of old growth timber that won't be harvested for another century.

They encourage their congregation to multiply like no ones' business, and don't worry if you can't afford the size of your own family, the church will take care of you.

They have the most comprehensive mission structure (and also the largest pool of competent linguists) in the world. They are very systematically spreading their message across the globe.

They also have the most secretive core bureacracy of any religion.

Don't tell me that Jesus mandated ID cards for worship. In fact you can't show me where Jesus taught any extant church today to form the political structures that they have.

And all the LDS do is based on the made-up BS of a small time huckster named Joseph Smith.

Yes, there are so many good people involved with it and yes, they do commit many many good works. But overall there is a terrible, devious and sinister thing creaping across the planet. That evil is LDS as a whole.

Ive been reading this thread, and I had to LOL at Prairie Bikers comments.

First of all I am not a Mormon. I am not really much for Church at all. I however work for the CIA, (pushing papers) and MANY of my co-workers are mormon. In fact it is well known that we along with the FBI, and other major government operations, that deal with extreme trust have so called Mormon recruitment policies. In other words most of the top officials, and recruits are Mormons, because they have been found to be so honest and trustworthy across the board.

I cant argue about their beliefs, or about Joseph Smith. I can tell you however, without a doubt that they are not a Cult. In fact that is one of the funniest things that I have ever read. Im sorry to ruin whatever fantasy world you are living in Prairie, but we do not hire people that are in a brainwashed Cult. Did you see us recruiting people from Waco?

My personal experience is that Mormons are great people, and I have had many dinners at Mormon friends houses. I think you need to seek some help, because obviously someone or something has upset you very much. I think that your anger is misplaced against the mormons though.

One last thing, anyone that would throw around the term Cult, evil, sinister etc so eaisly, can have no concept of what they are talking about. People planting bombs on school busses, raping and killing little kids, highjacking planes, these are evil and sinister. I suggest you come to reality, turn on the news, and see what evil is.

Don't worry, D-rob, I worked for NSA for 12 years. My name is on my blog. Look it up if you feel like burning that sort of favor. Of course, I sincerely doubt that you're actually with the CIA since no such policy exists and would in fact be illegal. But that's okay, you believe what you want to.

I don't have any anger towards them. I only think you should step back and look at it with a very broad viewpoint and see what stands out.

I also don't throw those words out there lightly. Do you really think the news will show you what evil is? Evil is the sloth of intel agencies that knew in 1996 about a plot to fly airplanes into the WTC and did absolutely nothing. That is evil.

Either way, I've said all I'm going to. I told Michele I was done with this and so, I am. Bash away.

I dont mind if you dont believe me. The policy is unoffical, however it is VERY real. Im sorry you are so uninformed, but this is common knowledge. In fact it is talked about in many public news articles, including the very famous piece that was done about the Mormons in Time magazine.

Sorry you are living in a fantasy world, but if you are going to talk about things, at least learn the facts first, before sounding like an idiot.

Oh and the "intel" you are talking about is much more complicated then you are making it sound. Sorry try again.

Im not defending what they believe, because I really dont know exactly. Just thought it was funny that you said they were an evil cult.

When living in California, I never had a problem with Mormon missionaries; I told them once that I was not interested, and they politely left and never returned.

The Jehovah's Witnesses, OTOH, were more persistent, but our neighbor took care of them for us. Steve was a big guy (6'2" or so, about 250 lbs, and very hairy). He answered the door stark naked. The JW's that came around our neighborhood were a pair of 50-something Mexican ladies; they both let out shocked little squeaks and took off in a hurry. We never saw them again.

I'm female, Mormon, grew up in Utah, and I would say that I'm fairly attractive. Prairie biker, you've obviously had a rough time with your family, and I feel for you there.

But, just for the record, the LDS church does not solicit tithing by mail or in person--especially not to people who are not actively living the religion, and I've never been asked if I "associate with apostates". I challenge anyone to find another religion that is more constantly teaching individuals to "find out the truth for themselves" about each principle and practice taught. I would abhor a religion that was sexist and/or racist--which is why I belong to a religion that serves everyone everywhere in the whole world (not just the white male parts). Also, in 25 years of living in Utah, (I'm in Houston now) I never met a polygamist. Please show me anywhere that has a solid factually based statistic as to how many polygamists (just a reminder, polygamists are NOT mormons) are out there, because I think the figure of 40,000 is ludicrous.

Just to comment on the tithing demands, I am an ex mormon Bishop and can assure you that tithing is a voluntary process and the church never issues demands or asks for it. Members contribute voluntary through a donation envelope or by chariry gift aid.

I couldn't pass up on this link. I worked 2 years as a missionary for the LDS church. I finally shucked myself of all the idiocy and "personal opinion" that people like to push off as church policy, etc. I graduated from BYU and am one of those "linguists" and really didn't care at all for all the BS that BYU likes to pass off in a Nazi-Mormon kind of way. As for the religion being a cult, well, that would be a matter of personal opinion where you have to decide on it. So, if you really want to do some reading up on it here's a fascinating website that delves into all of the idiosyncrasies and contradicting information of what Mormonism and the LDS are all about:


Note: If you are Mormon, please have an open mind because you may get offended by things on this site. The guy doesn't do this to be "evil" as I am sure you are thinking. He does this to present an honest opinion with "every fiber of his being". So, if it helps you enjoy it, if you hate it, then hate away.

Mormonism has a few good things about it: their welfare system for instance. But they also have a massive problem with their controlling instincts when it comes to "guilting" people into doing things in the name of the Lord and putting people in positions of power. You really want to stir up the mormon pot? Just ask a Mormon why it took until 1977 for Blacks to get the Preisthood if the religionalistic truth (according to their scriptures) is the same from the beginning of time? Why wasn't it revealed earlier? Or ask them why they haven't translated documents that the Mormon church has? Doesn't the "President" of the Mormon church have "translator" somewhere in his title? Even better, just read through the Book of Mormon and read for all the inconsistencies it has with the other foundational literature of the Mormon church and even linguistic inconsistencies that crop up here and there. The Mormom church has established a wonderful apologist organization called FARMS that is constantly trying to drum up some kind of actual support to "prove" the existence of what is purported in the Book of Mormon. Note, they are still trying. Damn the luck with Darwin! Or, you really want to stir them up, just ask those who have been active temple-goers why the whole temple ceremony changed a few years back. Which, BTW, if you are curious about the whole ceremony thing, is conveniently described in a page located at the above website. Very good reading and really makes you wonder.

On the other hand, I will say this though, as a missionary I really enjoyed getting out and meeting people, especially when I got invited over to eat. So, if you really want to make the missionaries' day just invite them in for a good meal. I know that they will not refuse a good meal! Just be prepared for them to share something with you as part of their spiritual message. If you take it in, just leave it like that knowing that you have made someone's day even if you don't necessarily agree with the message. I know that they will be happy.

Oh yeah, before I end. Something that Pixelgirl forgot to talk about in her very long post. Utah is the most notorious SCAM capital of the United States. If a scam works there it is then exported to other states. There are a couple of reasons for this. 1) A very gullible population. 2) A very professional multilingually available sales force to push your product/service etc. Ex-missionaries are VERY good salesmen, which is essentially what they do for the Mormon church. In fact, one of the best Marketing and Business schools in the United States is the Marriot School of Management at BYU. So, with these two populations existing in Utah, and even more so in Provo where BYU is, you have a very dynamic and gullible group of people that lose a lot of money in all the scams that go on out there because the sales force takes on a religious fervor to get their product/service out and sold to every available member who feels that it is their god-given duty to buy into that MLM product line so that their downlink will produce them a lot of money. Ponzi at it's best. Along with a whole lot of people happily fleeced of their hard-earned money. The worst part of this is that most of these sales are done at the Mormon churches or in the organizations like Priesthood Quorum or Relief Society since there is a ready receptive audience that already trusts you because you are a return missionary who wouldn't lead them astray.

Anyway, piece out and free yourself from the tyranny. Free Agency is a wonderful thing, too bad it is smoothered by repressive "ideals".