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we are here, we are here!

[long, rambling, tangential. you have been warned] horton.jpgOf all the strange emails I've received in the past two days, the ones that irked me the most were from people who chastised me for being a New York Republican. Specifically, a New York metro area (which is how they get to include me, a Long Islander, in their diatribes) voter who was personally affected by 9/11. Funny thing: In the three plus years since that dreadful day, I've written about it over 100 times. And every time, without fail, I would get an email or comment from someone accusing me of trying to "own" 9/11. My, how the tables have turned. Suddenly, that day now belongs to Democrat New Yorkers who are the only people who can understand anything about terrorism. How dare Midwesterners vote with terrorism in mind? They weren't here on 9/11. They don't know. And how dare I, a New Yorker, a close friend of someone who died that day, an attendee of dozens of funerals and memorial services, vote Republican? The fingers point at me. I am a betrayer of the dead. I am stomping on the souls of my friends. I have not avenged them with my vote. I'll use Ted Rall's column as an example of what's being said. You can really see it anywhere in New York; the Times had an article quoting disenfranchised "owners" of 9/11. CNN did man on the street interviews with weeping New Yorkers who were in shock that someone in another state had terrorism fears. But Ted does a nice job, as always, of piling on the hypocritical horseshit.
How interesting, Democrats watching the election results at a high-rise hotel in midtown Manhattan commented, that the rest of America thinks it understands terrorism better than we do. New York bore the brunt of 9/11 yet CNN's exit poll found that New Yorkers considered Iraq a bigger issue than terrorism when casting their votes for president. Midwesterners and southerners felt the opposite, motivated by fear of the unknown--literally, as they are neither likely targets of terrorism, nor did they feel or smell the horrors of that terrible day. Ranking terrorism their number one concern, they nevertheless supported an incumbent for whom the war on terrorism is nothing more than a marketing slogan.......Terrorism? Please, if you live in Mississippi or Colorado or Alaska, don't presume to talk about, much less cast your vote based upon, your "views" of Islamist terrorism. New Yorkers don't lecture you about hunting. Butt out of our business. Or at least have the grace to follow the lead of New York City voters if, contrary to history or logic, terrorism is your number one concern. [...] The day after a shady election handed to a maniacal buffoon, New Yorkers whose dead remain scandalously unavenged were in the streets. Civil strife, rage, the fight for decency and democracy--they were nowhere to be found.
The arrogance of the left in all its shining light. Since when is terrorism only an issue to those who have suffered from it? Do you have to live through a terrible thing in order to fear that terrible thing? Is it necessary to have the acrid smell of death cling to your clothes in order to want to fight the very thing that caused it? Have you ever read these stories? They are the voices of 9/11; over one hundred people - most of them not New Yorkers - who did not need to be standing at the foot of the towers in order to understand what terrorism is and what it does to a country. The people in the Midwest are Americans. Terrorism perpetrated on American soil or interests - whether it be in New York or Yemen, greatly affects all Americans. Terrorism? Please, if you live in Mississippi or Colorado or Alaska, don't presume to talk about, much less cast your vote based upon, your "views" of Islamist terrorism. New Yorkers don't lecture you about hunting. Butt out of our business. And they call us ignorant? Here he compares hunting to a terrorist attack that kills thousands. Tell us, Ted. How does elk hunting compare to people hunting? It doesn't. Two towers crumbling to the ground in New York profoundly affects an entire country and all if its people. A deer falling dead in the woods of Colorado? Need I go on? And this is what I keep hearing from my fellow New Yorkers. The people outside of New York and D.C. who voted with the war on terror in mind are idiots and fools who were brainwashed by a chimpanzee and his mind-melding sidekick. Apparently, only Democrats have the power to withstand the forces of Karl Rove and his subliminal messages. Only Democrats are smart enough to see through Bush's mask and recognize the devil that lurks beneath. Only people who voted for Kerry are really smart enough to deserve a vote. The rest of us - especially New Yorkers who voted for Bush - are Stepford simpletons who fell victim to a slick ad campaign,. We are hordes of zombies, and only the blue state heroes can save us from eating our own. I'm furious at a lot of things today. Now that I've had time to digest all the emails and comments, time to read all the articles and listen to all the whinging, I'm taken aback by how aggressively the Anybody But Bush coalition is pursuing the "You are Dumb" retort. But why should I be surprised? Look at some of the agendas of the left and their cohorts and you'll see that message has been in play all along. From animal activists to the tree huggers, to the P.C. police, they've been talking down to us in the morally superior way for ages now. The results of this election has just opened the Pandora's box of insults a bit wider. That cool breeze you feel is the rush of a thousand ad hominem attacks rushing by you as they whip their way around the country. Every little breeze seems to whisper sleaze. Besides, which is it guys? Did Bush win by "unleashing an army of fundamentalist Christians across the red heartland" or did he win because the stupid people that don't live in New York think they have a right to want to fight the war on terror? Was it the theo-zombies or the terror zombies that did you in? Getting back to the dumb Republican New Yorkers and their out of state counterparts (self included), here's the kicker from Ted: The day after a shady election handed to a maniacal buffoon, New Yorkers whose dead remain scandalously unavenged were in the streets. Civil strife, rage, the fight for decency and democracy--they were nowhere to be found. Unavenged? Would voting in Kerry - I'm sorry, voting out Bush - somehow avenge those deaths? Kerry's kinder, gentler war on terror, his mysterious plan to battle terrorism, his law enforcement ways of dealing with terrorists - just how would they "avenge" the dead? Even if bin Laden were shackled up behind bars, bunk mating with Saddam, the dead would not be avenged. The war on terror has a long way to go and I voted for Bush precisely for that reason, because I trust him in this war more than Kerry. And you know what? I know plenty of family and friends of 9/11 victims who did just the same. I know firefighters who did just the same. Long Island may look blue all over, but, like the denizens of Whoville, we are here. 589,000 of us. We are not idiots. We are your teachers. We are your lawyers. We fix your cars and tend to your sick children. We own businesses and we pump your gas. We are the neighbors who smile and wave at you or lend you tools. We are the people you play cards with, the people who drive your children to school. And now, we are stupid. We are idiots. Just because we don't think like you or vote like you. Can we still be trusted to deal the next hand at poker night or fill your car with unleaded? Will you still talk to us about baseball and football or sit next to us at the next PTA meeting? Or do we all have a case of the stupid cooties and now is your time to make the run from us, separate yourselves from the idiots who don't think like you? Don't be afraid to sit next to me at the movie theater. I promise I won't cram my religious manifesto down your throat. Because, well, I don't have one. Don't look at me like that, it's true. But how, you say, how can a person who does not practice a Christian like religion vote for Bush? You must be dumber than I thought! Well, this election was personal for me. I acted selfishly and took into major consideration what was most important to me, alone, as an American. It wasn't gay rights, of which I am a supporter. It wasn't abortion. It wasn't the definition of family. No, it was that ugly little word, war, partnered with its ugly big brother, terrorism. I did not act in the best interest of my gay friends. I did not act in the best interest of Planned Parenthood. I acted in my own, selfish interest and I do believe - and the results show - that I'm not the only one with that very interest at heart. This is probably the last time I will write about my reasons for voting the way I did. I owe you no more an explanation than you owe me. I don't have to respond to, especially, the emails that read like an exam, with numbered questions that I am "required" to answer. Yes, I am serious. My basic reply is to answer their questions with a question of my own: Dear sir, why do you think this is any of your business? Someone calls me an idiot and then they have the balls to ask me to take a forty question exam to prove to them I'm not stupid? Don't think so. Stupidity would lie in actually taking two hours out of my life to respond to a condescending, bitter emailer. For the record, I don't think that my fellow Americans who voted for Kerry are stupid. I think we just have different issues, place different value on different things and see the world in quite a different way. The Ted Ralls among us think that anyone not in New York can't understand Islamist terrorism. What an elitist thing to believe. What a load of self-important crap. I stand here looking at an inbox stuffed with emails from people who think that I am spitting on the graves of every person who died on 9/11 by supporting Bush. That, as a New Yorker, I should know better. I stand looking at a slew of articles that quote New Yorkers screaming at Midwesterners that they have no right to consider the war on terror an important issue. So, tables turn. Suddenly, 9/11 "belongs" to the New York Democrats. I shouldn't be surprised. After all, Ted himself thinks that almost everyone who died that day was a Democrat. Just because a state is blue on a map, Ted, does not mean that we, the red zombies, are not here. We are. We exist. And for the next four years Horton the elephant is watching over us. Update: To all those telling me Ted Rall doesn't matter, read again what I wrote. It's not just Rall saying these things. It's been all over the NYT, it's been on CNN, this is what the New York "elite" are shouting.

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Comments

Brilliant! Being a Red TheoTerror Zombie, I am proud to say that I don't eat the brains of the living or the Blue as, well, I have enough of my own and Blue brains just taste all waxy and unused.

People died in Pennsylvania and Virginia as well. New York does not have a monopoly on death and destruction, and to tell people who were not there when the Twin Towers fell do not have fears of terrorism is arrogance of the highest degree. The people who died came from across the nation and world; they are all of our children, and the nation will not forget.

Elizabeth
Imperial Keeper

Michele,
In the year or so that I've been reading your blog that has to be the best piece you've ever written. It speaks for so many of us out here in the "red state wasteland" who are now being asked to explain our voting positions, as if somehow we "owe" an explanation to the appeasers among us. I for one don't hold much hope of a great "reunification" that is being demanded by all the people who worked overtime to create the rift in the first damned place. I merely tell my election-losing friends that if they'd like to come aboard for the fight, now is the time to do so, otherwise get the hell out of our way and let us and our President make the "unpopular" decisions required to keep us all safe. I'm pretty much scraping at the bottom level of my tolerance for those who would critisize me for my proactive choices in the WOT, while they maintain a passive posture coupled with wishful thinking. And they call us stupid. Simply put, the country has made a decision to move forward in our struggle to rid the world of terrorist shitbags, and we're not about to let international opinion, the UN or the more gutless members of our country to get in our way.

Yah know, you really shouldn't read Ted Rall. He's a wacko and deserves to be ignored, not reacted to.

He does have one point. My wife and I live near Trenton NJ and both grew up in North Jersey. Both of us felt pain the first time we drove up the Turnpike and saw the hole in the NYC skyline. We didn't see the buildings burn/fall, but we did see the smoke. (Thankfully, the wind blew the other way that week and we didn't have to smell it.)

What's funny is that we both have relatives in Missouri - mine near Kansas City and hers near St. Louis. After talking to them, we can both say that our mid-western relatives are more concerned/afraid/panicked about terrorism than we are. I've heard similar discussions from friends and co-workers - the level of fear 3 years later seems to be stronger the farther you live from NYC/DC/Penn.

I'm not critical of midwesterners at all - I was born in St. Louis and lived there until age 9. I'm prouder of my midwestern background than I am of my time in NJ.

No opinion here - just an interesting observation.

"Unavenged? Would voting in Kerry - I'm sorry, voting out Bush - somehow avenge those deaths?"

Exactly and precisely. Why? Because it's all Bush's fault!

9/11 is Bush's fault. He did it. Therefore voting him out would have been an act of vengeance. That's the unspoken message of these folks you cite.

Nice, huh? But we're the morons, we're the depraved. Uh-huh. Sure.

There will be another election after this one, and I will not forget.

Two words, Ted: "Oklahoma City."

Believe me, I know what it's like to look into the face of terrorism, and I didn't even have to drive to the East Coast to do it.

Amen!

Has it never occurred to Ted Rall that those of us in the red states (which are red from the blood of innocents, apparently) may ALSO have lost loved ones in 9/11? You don't have to live in NYC to know or be related to someone in NYC.

And aren't the Blues always saying that we live in a "global" society? That the world's hurts are OUR hurts? But an act of terror that affects my fellow Americans in NYC is theirs alone to avenge -- I'm to stay here in Arkansas and keep my mouth shut?

I'm all for "bridging the gap", but reading articles like that make me want to tell the Blues to suck on it for the next four years. Suck. on. it.

But I won't. Because I'm tolerant, yo.

Outstanding Michele. Just outstanding.

Sweartafuck, you need a stupidity filter on your email. How you haven't gone on a five state killing spree yet simply baffles me.

How the Dems can ensure Eight More Years of the GOP:

www.zombietime.com/sf_rally_november_3_2004/

My favorite sign: "F**K Middle America"

When you speak of selfishness, I think you're getting to the heart of the matter.

The truth is, most Americans haven't had to sacrifice shit in the war on terror. They're not fighting the war. At most, they're spending an extra 15 minutes at the airport or a few extra bucks to fill their gas tanks.

That's shameful really. What united Americans during WWII was shared sacrifice and everyone doing their part.

For those who are the right age, able bodied and support the war, I say, "Suit up or shut up." There are recruiting offices all over America.

>>For those who are the right age, able bodied and support the war, I say, "Suit up or shut up." There are recruiting offices all over America.<<

And they're doing the very thing, Roxanne. In DROVES. If you ever run into a miltary recruiter, just stop him and ask him. Numbers are up. There are plenty of young people still left in this country who believe in something bigger than themselves and believe me, they're thankful that W remains in office as Commander in Chief to provide the right direction. I'm curious - how old do you happen to be? Would you serve your country? Do you personally know anyone who does?

Roxanne: So you support the draft? or Military Rule? I say go with that platform in 2008! Dems for The Draft! Dems for Military Rule!

We will thank you for Eight More Years!

Keep up the awsome work!

One thought that has been in discussion in my house - since 9/11 ... is that when the planes hit, the whole country wept. People here in Detroit DROVE to NYC to try to help. My husband's own company sent one of their tractor trailers (filled with stuff) to help out. I wonder if NYCers (the Ted Ralls) can understand the compassion that all us stupid red-necks can feel for other Americans. My husband has wondered, on many occasions, if it had been Detroit's Rennaissance Center that had been hit, would NYC have cared? Would Maureen Down, or Ted Rall, given two shits?

I'm in my 40s, however ...

I worked overseas for the DoD for three years, so I am well-acquainted with the military community. My 18 year old niece just started air force boot camp, my sister is in the coast guard, my father served in the Navy, and both grandfathers spent 3 years of their lives as Marines, kicking Hitler's ass.

None of them are/were Republicans. None of them who are still alive voted for Bush. So, you can all add that to your list of stereotypes that don't really fit.

Going to bed early did you well, Michele. Excellent essay.

And again, I stand and applaud your courage in wading into the depths of Rallmania to expose this meme. Not that it's confined to even to NYDems ... some Brits get in on the "dumb" meme, too.

I've been posting about the other post-GW meme coming from angry, spinning Dems ...illustrated by today's Paul Krugman article that I fisk here. Dems think they didn't articulate their message well enough for us dumbbunnies to get it ... they refuse to examine their message.

Good lord, this is now a matter of religious dogma to Dems -- it was brought home even more as my husband arrived home almost seething because he needed to cut his phonecall to Edward, his ten y/o son (who lives with his very leftist mom in Oregon), short when Edward started ranting about "redneck Republicans." Ten.years.old.

Sorry you have been getting those nasty e-mails. You must be hitting a raw nerve. Do what I do - don't read them. People hate me because I voted republican AND work at Wal-Mart. My job does not define who I am and neither does my political party. In fact, people who try to judge me by such "outward" signs are people I don't care to get to know. You are very brave and I would like to sit down and chat with you one day. Take care - get some sleep and stop reading those nasty e-mails!

Sorry you have been getting those nasty e-mails. You must be hitting a raw nerve. Do what I do - don't read them. People hate me because I voted republican AND work at Wal-Mart. My job does not define who I am and neither does my political party. In fact, people who try to judge me by such "outward" signs are people I don't care to get to know. You are very brave and I would like to sit down and chat with you one day. Take care - get some sleep and stop reading those nasty e-mails!

>>None of them are/were Republicans. None of them who are still alive voted for Bush. So, you can all add that to your list of stereotypes that don't really fit.<<

Stereotypes? I was merely asking a couple of questions. What sort of message did you give your neice upon her departure for basic training? Were you supportive of her efforts, or did you remind her that she was going to be sent to the middle east by a maniacal dictator to "die for oil"?

You know, Michele, I removed my popular Ted Rall Is Full Of Crap site and the accompanying archive because I just got tired of mocking the loon. He's self-mocking, insane (commenting at length as Annoying Bastard while dismissing me in e-mail at the same time), requiring no additional effort to demonstrate that he's full of crap. And those who don't realize he's full of crap prima facia are not worth wasting effort on convincing that he's full of crap, let alone worth wasting the cost of a bullet to put them out of their misery.

The reason why we in the heartland give two sh*ts about the potential for New York or DC terrorism is because for some ungoldly reason, our state and local authorities over the past century have given up most of their right to self rule in exchange for a tangle of inefficient federal regulation and a centralization of capital markets. If New York or DC gets a boo-boo, we have been trained to stop and stand agape at the event instead of shrugging and saying "Well, that sucks for them. Back to work here."

So, yeah, we give a damn about the impact of terrorism on y'all down here. We've been shackled to your fate. All of the eggs are in one basket, so to speak, and we are GUARDING THAT BASKET. Even the cracked and rotten ones for some sick reason.

And if some Manhattanites and Commiefornias are too dumb to realize that they're in Islamism's crosshairs, then I guess we have to be aware FOR them.

Earlier comment: "If it had been Detroit's Rennaissance Center that had been hit, would NYC have cared? Would Maureen Dowd, or Ted Rall, given two shits?"

Answer: No, they wouldn't, and I have examples. When Houston shut down from floods over three years ago, it garnered less attention than Philadelphia's minor floods from the same rolling system a few days later. And during all three hurricanes that hit Florida this season, the reaction was not "What can we do to help them?" but "Gee, they're getting an awful lot of federal aid. Maybe it is because the President is the Governor's brother?" or "Serves them right for lousing up our election in 2000."

Ted's rant doesn't even make any sense to me. I guess I am dumb but, I saved a bundle on my car insurance!

Akin to the pointlessness of responding to e-bile, taking affront to the stink this addled leftie exudes is a waste of precious synapses.

Flamen, take the conversation to email if you want to discuss that with Roxanne. Much as I like you both, and as much as it's a good subject to discuss, I'm not in the mood for threadjacks today.

Sorry about the emails - a few may be from people I sent to your blog.

I explained why I voted for Bush (I'm a New Yorker) and I said there were other NYers, in the metro area, who were directly affected by the attacks who also voted for Bush. And I directed them to your post "The Morning After".

I know these people personally, and perhaps they don't realize that they've been calling me stupid, evil, mentally ill and other things. Perhaps they do know that, and they're enjoying their feelings of superiority, as they have no real political victory to point to. I tried to give some advice about how to get a win in the future (http://www.livejournal.com/users/meep/877782.html), and one decided to take that advice, and others decided to crap on it.

Well, whatever. I've done my duty. I've tried. I know that advice is usually unheeded, especially there's something in there you don't want to hear (like, you don't really know how most Americans think, or what they want.)

Anyway, thanks for speaking for some of us. I whole-heartedly agree with your post here.

Also, Karl Rove up there is the same person who left the now deleted MooreFan comment. Make up your mind, troll!

I am very happy that Bush won, but I have felt down a few times in the last couple of days that Republicans that live in NY State could not deliver the state for Bush. Broome County, where I live in upstate, went to Kerry be 2,000 votes. My goal for the next election is to turn NY to a red state.

Who is paying for this War? Whose children are fighting and dying to protect this country. Yes we flyover people understand the issues and we put our money (and our votes) where our mouths are

The blunt, practical, and harsh response would be "If you think terrorism is a local issue, fine then, you pay for it. Put the NYPD in charge of US counterterrorism, the FBI/CIA/NSA can do other things." Sounds stupid, doesn't it? Me, I like to think we're all in this together. And silly me, I think all Americans should have a say in matters of national defense.

Oh, and one very important thing. If you want to make hay over NY voting for Kerry 58% to 40%, you just might want to consider the results from 2000. If this page is right it was 60.2%/35.2% in 2000. Now how did Bush gain nearly 5%? Anyone got any ideas? Anyone? Bueller? Maybe a bunch of yokels moved to NY. (And how did Kerry lose 2%? Does he really have less charisma than Gore?)

Our state (New York) is a strange one. It votes for a Republican Governor and Republican Mayor (in NYC) but when it comes to the National Level votes Democratic.

"And now, we are stupid. We are idiots. Just because we don't think like you or vote like you."

Sigh Yeah, I got pretty cranky about this myself, yesterday. I've had it up to HERE with that mentality. I cannot even imagine how it must be for you -- because I know you get avalanched with far more mail and comments than I do. Can't say I'm envious about that either, nope.

And I'll tell you, if the Democratic Party doesn't get a handle on the 'we're morally and intellectually superior, plus we wear cool clothes and like France' faction of their party, they are going to become more and more irrelevant. Especially when those are the people routinely being handed the bully pulpit. Most Americans that I know -- no matter what side of the aisle they're on -- find the Tim 'Chill Wind' Robbins crowd to be embarrassingly patronizing.

My sentiments toward the Clintonian gilded age were best expressed in Richard II: Then thus I turn me from my country's light,
To dwell in solemn shades of endless night.

The erudite NYer's: F*ck middle America.

Deer season opens in 2 weeks - yeehah!

Damn, Michele! Wow, you just cut loose and let it rip! Perfect! Geez, I wish I could ahve said it with as much power and clarity as you did. Now, I don't have to; I can just point people here.

Keep up the good work, Lady! (Oh, and thanks for the TCP chat set-up on election night. Although it meant I got, what, about 3 hours of sleep, 'cause I couldn't break away from the group there!)

Actaully Karl Rove is a big Michael Moore fan. I just love him!!!!

I told you watching the left implode after the election would be interesting.

Amen, amen, amen, I've been boiling at those people in the NYT who think that Republicans like me who were there on 9/11 don't exist, that those of us in NY who support Bush's approach to the War on Terror are the ones who don't take the issue seriously. I wonder who won the NYPD vote. I wonder who won the NYFD vote. Given that both of their unions endorsed Bush. Ever heard of Rudy Giuliani? Bernard Kerik? Tom von Essen? Tell them they don't know what it's like to be targeted by terrorists. (Never mind that nearly the whole hated right-wing media establishment, from the WSJ to Rush to NR to Fox is all based in NY).

Bush lost NY by 25 in 2000; he lost it by 18 this time. Bush lost NJ by 16 last time, 6 this time. Bush lost CT by 18 last time, 7 this time. The man gained a lot of votes in this area. No, he didn't reach everyone. But nobody in the area voted for Bush? Puh-leeeze.

I am from Chicago. I visit Manhattan on business for one week every other month. The New Yorkers I work with are people just like you. They are successful hard working people who do not resemble Ted Rall elitist types whatsoever.

I am so inspired by your post. You have the gift of communication and took the words out of my mind in a way I never could.

Thank you so much for sharing this.

I am more than willing to cut my like-minded Kerry supporters (sorry, anti-Bush folk) some slack and give them a few days to vent. It's hard to believe so strongly that you are right and find out that there are millions of idiots out there who have the gall to disagree with you.

For example, you and I agree on just about everything except how Bush has handled the response to al-Qaeda (and, of course, your insane support of that loser baseball team). So, but for that one issue--which you see as trumping all others and I don't--my candidate lost to a "complete moron." It's frustrating and baffling to people, and they act like pouty children who didn't get their way (yes, this is an oversimplification, and yes I pouted and stomped my feet and cried, too).

Intelligent people will get over it soon. The rest you need to ignore. Seki's stupidity filter would come in handy.

However, this "slack" does not give people the right to be abusive to you. And anyone who thinks that threatening you or your children is anything other than criminal will get my liberal foot up their ass.

Followup on Dorkafork's point, here are the NY numbers so far (probably with some absentee votes still to be counted):

2000: Gore 4,107,697, Bush 2.403,374
2004: Kerry 3,971,059, Bush 2,782,457

Yes, there are 2.7 million New Yorkers who voted for Bush, including at least 379,000 who didn't in 2000. While Kerry appears to have gotten fewer votes in NY than Al Gore did.

How do you think that happened?

You do your best pieces after someone pisses you off. It is better to be pissed off than pissed on. Find a bottle of refreshment that is aged older than you; pour two fingers worth; enjoy. You have earned it.

New York, like San Francisco and the other chic urban centers. is full of people who came from the Red states because they wanted to play with the big boys. To quote the song, "If you can make there (NY), you can make it anywhere." So great. They're all gathered in these small geographical around the fringes of the country and have nothing but contempt for the yokels they left behind.

Like Pauline Kael, former New Yorker magazine film critic, who said she didn't know how Nixon won, she didn't know anyone who voted for him, these people talk only to each other.

Before the blogosphere, their arrogance wasn't exposed. The media and their auxiliary forces in the "arts" and academe controlled information and we were told only what they wanted us to know.

Them days are over and it'll be a lot of fun watching the melt down as the first faint inklings of what the future will look like starts to dawn on them. Not only don't we give a flying fig what the elite eurotrash think of us, we don't care what our own elite eurotrash wannabes think either.

Live with it

the take-home point I get from Rall's (and other's) comments is "wah wah wah, our votes should count for more than theirs"

some pigs are more equal than others, I guess.

or maybe they want to make red-staters each count 3/5 of a person.

The main reason I voted for Bush is because I think he's less likely to appease terrorists than Kerry. I don't want a Beslan happening on U.S. soil.

The secondary reason is I more or less know where Bush stands - with Kerry, it seemed so finger-in-the-wind.

If that makes me stupid, fine. I'm stupid, then. If to be smart I have to loathe people in the "flyover" states for voting their conscience, always cast a D ballot, and have to look at what Hollywood excretes as the pinnacle of human culture, then I don't want to be smart.

Keep up the good work, and don't let the buggers get you down. They are still confused, disoriented, and unable to accept the idea that their aristocrat was roundly rejected.

We here in Florida love you.

>> New Yorkers don't lecture you about hunting.

Actually, they do. What do you think "no one uses ... to go hunting" is?

New Yorkers are busy-bodies. They lecture everyone about everything.

Superb post, Michele. I think Rall is, for you, like some form of innoculation; inject the subject with a weak, partially-formed, pathetic virus, and watch the host grow stronger and produce antibodies. Bwahahahaha!

Anyway, the lefties contempt of Flyover Country is ludicrous and, as this election has shown, counter-productive for them. We outside of the 202 area code aren't affected by terrorism? Well, I guess those attacks that took a trillion dollars out of our economy were not related to me getting laid off shortly thereafter (Just before Thanksgiving--thanks, Boss!). And, of course, only native New Yorkers were in those towers when the planes hit--no tourists, visiting business people, and nobody with relatives in other states.

Michael Mooreon said there is no terrorist threat; now Rall says there is, but only in heavily Democratic precincts. You know, I have a hard time picturing the remaining Al Qaeda leaders poring over that USA Today map, sticking pins in the Blue counties and cackling with glee.

As a midwesterner (who's been living in the northeast for the last year) I'm deeply offended by the whole thing. Just because I disagree with the majority of lefties doesn't make me stupid, it just means we disagree.

Excellent piece, Michelle. Although I live in Alabama now, on 9/11 I lived near Newark and worked in Jersey City. I saw the towers burn, I stood in the haze of smoke across the river at Exchange Place and cried. I worked with cops who spent dozens of hours working at the WTC site; I heard about what they saw. I went to memorials, and saw walls of photos of people who would never come home. Jersey City was where the 1993 WTC bombers came from, and supporters of the 9/11 terrorists live there still. As an employee of the JC police department, I went to work behind concrete barriers and wondered if a car bomb would shatter the front of my building some day. I would have voted for Bush even if 9/11 hadn't happened, but New Yorkers can't say I don't understand terrorism as much as they do.

I would also like to emphasize, as others have mentioned, that the majority of Americans fighting to prevent another 9/11 in New York, DC, Pennsy or anywhere else on American soil are mostly from red America. Their sacrifice makes it possible for NYC liberals to gather over foie gras and sneer at the simpletons in flyover country. The blood of red America has given them the freedom to spit on red America. Nice bunch of people.

You do good work, Michelle. I'm glad your voice is strong.

Why do you have to get me so upset so early in the morning?

This is the fucking icing on the cake. For a long time, I was very much about "if you weren't here, you can't know what it was like." Now that the entire red country has shown me that they do know, and they do care, it validates more than ever my faith (no pun intended) in this country as one unified nation. Even if some guy sitting in the middle of the great plains realizes he will never be a target of terrorist attacks, he thinks enough of the danger to his fellow countrymen to cast a vote for them. While you and I an all the other "dumb" NYC Republicans voted selfishly, these people did not. How can one not applaud them?

I'm personally offended by the way in which 9/11 is being contorted by these people. I was there. I was very near there. I do not want to be there again, nor do I want any other person in this country to be there, ever. Even my worst enemy. Even Ted Rall. GWB has prevented additional attacks for over three years, has mounted successful campaigns against those that would try again. For that and that alone he deserved to win.

One final question, WTF is he talking about when he says "shady" election?! I had certainly hoped we'd passed that point this time around. It's not shady just because Kerry lost. And if it's the old "anti-gay marriage referendums were there to bring out the conservatives" explain how Ohio passed theirs by a great margin, but Bush won the state by quite a narrow margin.

OK, sorry, babbling. SO PISSED OFF.

I wish I could have a book of your writings... they're always so astute, especially when you're mad.

To be honest, I'm used to condescension and contempt from coastal dwellers (after all, I live in Iowa... I highly doubt that most New Yorkers would be able to find it on a map, or are even aware that such a state exists). That part doesn't bother me. What does bother me, however, is that if the Democratic party doesn't squelch (or continues to allow) this kind of thinking to be broadcast in its ranks and in its name, then it will cease to become a body of any national significance or effect. I would much rather have a sane Democratic party with reasonable ideas, just so we can have a choice in our elections. With the D-party as it currently is, it leaves us with no choice but to vote R.

So I suppose it was wrong for the continental US (that includes New Yorkers Ted) to rally behind Roosevelt in his war against Imperial Japan. I mean, it's not like they were actually "attacked" or smelled "the horrors of that terrible day" at Pearl Harbor. And it was not like they were "likely targets".

Gee Ted, I guess I'll just have to wait until some crazed lunatic blows a few city blocks of downtown Charlotte to hell before I can comment about islamic terrorism or consider it an issue when I vote.

FOAD

michele, if one of your lines sums the whole thing up it's got to be:

"Only people who voted for Kerry are really smart enough to deserve a vote."

Captures the whole leftist elitist thinking in a nutshell. This kind of thinking is what turns off the center.

I'd be interested to know the percentage of these "back-wood hicks" from flyover country that are currently in uniform protecting this asshat's right to type this elitist bullshit, compared to the cultured city folk that would have the testicular fortitude to protect their own precious city.

Hey Rall... Suck it.

Signed
Sundevil

And one more thing, I think it's perfectly logical that those outside NY/DC/big target cities would be more worried about terrorism than those who live in them. From my own personal experience, when you're living with what you know is the threat on a daily basis, you need to get your mind in a certain state in order to get through life. I've got all kinds of rationalizations, coping mechanisms, stockpiles of water, surgical masks, light sticks, batteries, valium, and all other kinds of mental and physical coping tools that let me live in the biggest target on the US map. I might be afraid of more attacks, but I actually feel, rightly or wrongly, prepared for most anything that might happen. If you're not living your every day like this, you haven't built up these kinds of internal defenses, hence you are more likely to be afraid, scared, concerned.

What we know is much less frightening than what we don't know.

OK, stopping. Really. I mean it this time.

Come on, Ted's a complete idiot. You know it, I know it and I'm sure a good bit of the left knows it. You can't lump the entire left in with that fucking martian!

Here! Here! Well Said Michelle! I was sitting with a friend election night who said "I really don't understand how people could vote for Bush". As I tend to keep my views to myself (I live in very liberal Saint Paul, MN), he didn't know my view. So when I responded "Well, we vote for Bush because we believe we are at war." He looked startled, but to his credit he recovered and we had a civil discussion after that. There are reasonable people on the left. But they sure aren't the majority in the public discourse. How do we find them?

Terrorism? Please, if you live in Mississippi or Colorado or Alaska, don't presume to talk about, much less cast your vote based upon, your "views" of Islamist terrorism. New Yorkers don't lecture you about hunting. Butt out of our business.

Hurricanes? Please, if you live in New York or Califonia or Illinois, don't presume to talk about, much less cast any votes based upon, your "sympathy" of people whos homes got destroyed. Floridians don't lecture you about buildings being destroyed. Butt out of our business.

Will you look at THAT! I CAN match Rall's level of intelligence!

Seriously, living in a state that averages a Federal Disaster proclamation or two every year, I am proud to live in a nation that doesn't just think about their own personal needs and wants. Flyover country has been looked down upon by the elitists in NY and California for years. Yet it wasn't the Red states declaring "They deserved it" when the Twin Towers fell.

People who died at the Twin Towers, in Pennsylvania, and at Pentagon had family and friends who live all over the United States, in small and large towns, out in the boonies or by the beach. Who is to say that these family and friends are not affected by what happened in New York?

Excellent post Michelle.

As a fellow NYer I wholeheartedly agree.

Very nice, Michele. I agree with ricki, except that I would offer the summary of the article to be a bit more concise:

Whaaaaah.

That kind of does it.

Terrorism doesn't affect non-New Yorkers, huh? I guess Ted Rall was born after April 19, 1995.

This Rall loss strikes me as someone who realizes that he is outnumbered and instead of having the courage to stay his course and fight with honor for what he believes, he mirrors the terrorist themselves by spewing his vile hate.

As I'm sure everyone knows "the more intellectual they think they are, the harder they fall"

Try, my more dim-witted brothers and sisters from Big Buck country, to take pity on those burdened with nuance. Let us try to understand those that when attacked will make the case to blame their fellow countrymen while the rubes from the midwest would prefer to pull every terrorist's heart out through his asshole.

The child cries and stamps his feet when he doesn't get his way. But at night he gets tired and goes to sleep and then he wakes up - still one of our children. Let's send these children to their room and let them cry themselves to sleep.

Exqueeze me, Ted Rall. I seem to recall an organized islamofacist effort on 9/11 that threatened the Capital of my country; one hijacked plane flew into the pentagon, one likely headed for the capitol building cratered out a field in Pennsylvania. It was an attack on the Nation.

Watching my country attacked and my countrymen and visitors to my country die that day wasn't "personal" enough for you, fine.
Any one of my family or friends could have been on a hijacked plane ( I myself was getting a few last minute things for a spontaneous trip to DC that day - the weather was so very fine- to take my homeschooler on his first tour of the Capitol building, when my DH, called to tell me tell me the second plane had hit the trade center.

Stay out of "your" business, my fine white ass.

Excellent work, Michele.

I wish the bitter-enders would make up their minds, though.

From the Frontpage.com folks (March 15, 2002), here's a Michael Moore Golden Oldie:

Particularly gruesome has been Moore’s character assassination of President Bush. The day after September 11, for instance he wrote: "Many families have been devastated tonight. This just is not right. They did not deserve to die. If someone did this to get back at Bush, then they did so by killing thousands of people who DID NOT VOTE for him! Boston, New York, DC, and the planes' destination of California -- these were places that voted AGAINST Bush!”

Amen.

i couldn't agree more michelle. i touch on a related point here, but nowhere nears as elegantly as you do.

i work a few blocks from the wtc. i walked to the ferry through ash that day. i smelled it the next morning at home, 20 miles away but horribly downwind, smelled it every day at work for the next few months until the fire was finally extinquished in december. i lost several friends, went to many more funerals. and i voted for bush. and i would again in a heartbeat.

guess i'm too stupid, huh?

Brilliant, simply brilliant.

However, I fear there's far too much logic and rational thinking here for any liberal.

And I thought we'd left "Bitch-slap Ted Rall Friday" behind. I'm kind of glad we didn't, although I hate that you actually have to link to the douche bag while kicking his ass.

Michelle, I work in downtown DC and from the roof of my building on the morning of 9/11 I saw the smoke rising from the Pentagon just a short distance away. As we heard the confused reports of possible other airliners unaccounted for, I thought of my children who attended school on the grounds of the National Cathedral, a giant building on the highest ground in Washington, an easy target for a jetliner, and feared the Cathedral would be next (the school immediately evacuated the kids). Cars filled all the downtown streets, making the city a huge traffic jam, as people left their offices. And as I looked at the clogged streets and listened on the radio for updates on airliners, I thought: ten years ago, in 1991 when Russia outlawed the Communist party, the Cold War ended; and now a new war has begun. We've enjoyed ten years of peace; now its over. And I thought: eight years of Clinton/Democrat inattention let this new threat grow. Bush was only in office 8 months before 9/11 happened; Bin Laden's planning went back far before Jan. 20, 2001. And which city remains the prime target today? Washington, that's what. Right where I am as I write these words. Am I a Bush supporter? You bet I am. Ending this new war requires an administration that is willing to use force and that the enemy knows is willing to use force that overwhelms their force. The Democrat writers you cited need to explain what conditions will cause them to support the use of force. During the campaign they never did it, and so I never trusted the candidate they backed would have the political support from his base to use force when it ought to be used. All the talk about intelligence and elite understanding is beside the point, until these elites state a persuasive stand on the conditions that will lead them to back the use of force. If they don't have sound judgment to know when to use force, they don't have sound judgment to know which candidate to choose.

I live in the Washington, DC, area, with a brother-in-law who was in the Pentagon the day it was hit (I wonder if Ted & his cohorts think that "allows" me to have an opinion on terrorism?), & I voted for Bush. To sidetrack onto stereotypes--I'm a Republican who lives in Prince Georges County, MD--one of the few whites who do. I always love the way my pseudo-liberal devout Democrat white friends (who live in their pristine-white Virginia neighborhoods) always look shocked when I tell them where I live & comment "but it's so dangerous!" (That's liberal-speak for "you actually come in contact with minorities?!" My Mom lives in Miami. She's the wife of a retired Penn State professor. She gets the same comments when inviting her liberal-college-professor-wives friends to come & visit her. "Too dangerous." Inotherwords, they might get minority cooties.)

Anyway, I'm much amused/entertained by reading the disgruntled media & various "liberal" boards (that is, the ones that haven't blocked themselves up). Yes, it's along the lines of what Ted is spewing. And you know what? All I can think is that THIS is the best these supposedly highly-educated--as opposed to us dumb-fucks--people can come up with?! Anyone who's ever been around a 5-year-old knows that's the ultimate resort when the kid loses an argument with another kid--"YEAH, WELL YOU'RE STUPID!!!!" How really sad. The Democratic party used to be a great party. My parents (the college professor & an English teacher--but dumb apparently) were Democrats when they married. Mom had become a Democrat after watching Adlai Stevenson campaign against Eisenhower. He--& his party--conducted himself with such dignity, even after losing, that she wanted to align herself with that party in the future. What a comedown, to go from "Ask what you can do for your country" to such cleverisms as "Bush=Hitler" & "Fuck Jesusland." How truly truly sad, for that party & ultimately for the country. Every country needs at least 2 viable parties. The Democratic party is not only the minority party, it's in real danger of marginalizing itself out of even that status. Look at the election map--the blue states are a small fringe around the edge of the country. How fitting. If Democrats continue to let such beacons of light as Ted & Michael--who really have been the public face of the party--spew hate & venom & convince themselves that the rest of us are just too stupid to listen to, in 4-8 years even that blue will have faded off the map.

The party can't sink much lower. Here's hoping that perhaps some of the moderate, rational members of that party can start to ask themselves what they did wrong. Since there's really nothing to lose, it would be exciting to see them come up with some actual policies that many of us who really weren't crazy about Bush would like to have seen. How about realistic solutions to: affordable daycare for working moms; flat tax, no exceptions (risky, but what do they have to lose?); letting the almost 100% minority students who currently go to shithole public schools in DC & other big cities have the opportunity to attend schools like Sidwell Friends just like Chelsea (think Rangel would ever have the balls to propose legislation requiring parents who send their kids to expensive private schools to pay an equal amount to the public shool their kid should have attended, or would that be too awful for his Hollywood pseudo-liberal supporters to contemplate?); having companies who are setting up schools in India to train students there in various skills so they can become future outsources set up similar training in inner-city schools here--ditto for those companies who are currently bringing in workers on foreign visas; focusing on improving the math & science education U.S. kids are falling ever-further behind on? I'm not talking the mysterious "plans" Kerry & the Democrats currently claim they have. I'm talking specific, realistic plans that understand business is not the enemy but the providers of those jobs they keep bitching Bush lost. Along with the realization that we live in a nasty world full of people who want to turn us into another Afghanistan--show us what you'd actually DO to stop those loonies from coming here. I heard 4 years of "Bush sucks." Hey, I know he sucks. Tell me what YOU would do. A lot of others felt the same way. We know what Bush is doing, even if we're not always crazy about it. But 59 million of us didn't hear an alternative.

And here's a suggestion to the moveon-org-ers & ANSWER-ers, etc. Instead of pointless demonstrations in the streets, smashing glass & making a mess, how about something more intelligent? Do you really think Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/Halliburton/evilJews are going to come clean up the mess? Do you think they even give a shit? No, you're just adding work to some poor minimum-wage immigrant who works 3 jobs & now has to clean up after your daddy's-paying-my-college-tuition privileged white ass, & adding to the tax burden of the predominantly minority residents in DC & other cities. How about organizing action days, once every 2 or 3 months? Come in to a city & clean up a park, renovate some old computers & donate them to schools, show a kid or a single mom how to use Word & Excel so they have some marketable skills, build a playground in a housing project. It's not as cool as spending a weekend trashing stuff with your buddies, & you may actually have to, you know, come in contact with a real minority, but talk about influencing voters for the future! (Hands from anyone who thinks the pseudo-liberals at moveon.org or ANSWER would ever actually do something like that.)

Bill Clinton had a signing here this summer, at the bookstore in the building where I work. The DNC had dozens of earnest little college volunteer interns campaiging their hearts out. Mind you, these were official DNC-sanctioned (& presumably -trained) volunteers. Their mantra while passing out literature? "Vote Bush out." Not, "Here's what we can do" or "Vote for Kerry because he'll do xxx." It was "Vote Bush out." When a political party has let Michael Moore & Ted Rall coopt--& ultimately drive--its message, that's a party in serious trouble. For those of you who donated to the DNC, I hope Moore's Best Picture is worth it--because that's all you're going to get out of it. You donated your time, money, & ultimately vote to the most expensive self-aggrandisement & Oscar campaign in history.

But, as a former Democrat & now ever-strengthening Republican, I sincerely hope you can wrest your party back from Michael & Ted & their self-glorification shenanigans. You've got 4 years. The Republicans control the whole shooting match right now, so they indeed do not have anyone to blame. You don't like what they're doing? Well now's the time to come up with your realistic, workable, not sooper-sekret, alternatives. You can continue to harp away in the NY Times & on your poisonous boards about all us stoopid people--or you can actually do something.

Dorothy wrote:

People hate me because I voted republican AND work at Wal-Mart. My job does not define who I am and neither does my political party.

This reaction occurs because the Left (and to a lesser extent, the Right as well) need you to vote for them based not on who you are - your personal beliefs, values and thoughts - but on what you are - your race, your gender, your job, etc. As someone who works at Wal-Mart, you owe the Democrats your vote because they axiomatically have your best interests at heart, such as government-supplied "free" health care, legally required"protected" union membership, a higher minimum wage, and so on. If you don't agree those are your best interests, well, you're one of those people who work at Wal-Mart - how bright can you be? Best to leave the thinking to your betters, be quiet, and vote the way you've been told to. If you vote based on who you are rather than what, then the Democratic party will actually have to do something to win your vote rather than just assuming it is in their column.

I'm willing to consider Solonor's POV (and admittedly I ain't getting the hate mail), it could be the bewilderment and lack of reason that accompanies early grief. We will know in a week or so. I'd add it doesn't sound too different from their pre-election rhetoric, so call me a skeptic.

But if the left refuses to comprehend that calling their opponents "stupid", and "Nazis", and the rest of that long list of arrogant insults, then they will keep losing.

President Clinton, the most recent and best example of comprehending that line of reason, demonstrated that he knew better.

Hey dude, where's my Democratic Party?

A letter to Michael Moore:

Dear Sir,

I thank your movie F9/11 for helping me change my mind in this election. Going back to my first vote in 1980, I have voted Democrat in every election . In 2000, I voted for Gore.

In 2004, I voted for Bush.

The relentless hectoring from your film and your books helped solidify my view that the Democrats have become increasingly Eurpoean in outlook, and therefore, anti-American.

So thanks, Michael.

Kevin

Tom Ault, agreed.

For what it's worth, the UFCW (United Food and Commercial Workers) have never successfully negotiated a contract with a large (100+ stores) retail grocery chain.

Well, I should have known. Y'all feel irate and persecuted even in total victory, it seems. There's no pleasing some people.

I'm not going to get into defending Ted Rall or his terrorism comment. He often annoys me, and I think the point he was trying to make -- curious how rural folks are more concerned about terrorism than the people who are much more likely to experience it -- is woefully misstated and, as usual around here, an easy target. So, on other matters:

Was it the theo-zombies or the terror zombies that did you in?

To answer your question, Michele, it appears to me to have been the TheoZombies, who, praise Jeebus, now won't have to worry about a gay couple living next door, and can revel in more of the same sterling moral values we've come to expect from this administration.

"And they call us ignorant?"

Um, well, yes, in the aggregate. Am I wrong? Then explain these results to me.

I've spent half my life in Red States and half my life in the Blue...there's no monopoly on ignorance in this world, but, yes, there is a preponderance of it in some areas more than others. To say otherwise is to indulge in willful ignorance, which brings me to...

And now, we are stupid. We are idiots. Just because we don't think like you or vote like you.

Actually, it has more to do with putting faith before the facts...see my earlier links above.

Thinking people can disagree about whether certain facts bear on a case. For example, I think Bush cutting Nunn-Lugar and First Responder funding, failing to implement more stringent cargo container security, refusing to go after offshore tax shelters used for terrorist (and corporate) cash, and pissing off the moderate Muslim world with the rush to war in Iraq makes him much worse in fighting the War on Terror than John Kerry might've been. You evidently disagree...fine. We disagree. That's America, and it's a beautiful thing.

But it's another thing entirely willfully to disbelieve the facts in front of your face, as suggested by the poll above. To borrow a recent meme, it's the difference between the "reality-based community" and the faith-based community, or, to get hyperbolic about it, between the Enlightenment and the High Middle Ages.

Honest, forthright debate between the sides is at a premium these days...all too often, we segregate ourselves into the echo chamber blogs of our choosing. Fine, that's human nature. But it's impossible even to discuss politics with people who remain willfully misinformed about events.

Can we still be trusted to deal the next hand at poker night or fill your car with unleaded? Will you still talk to us about baseball and football or sit next to us at the next PTA meeting?

Yeah, probably, as long as you're straight. We don't want those homosexuals fraternizing or having monogamous relationships, now, do we?

I am sooooo amazed and thankful and grateful that most Americans are able to evaluate issues on a truly intelligent level without succumbing to the media hype. I found myself despondent a number of times over the twisting of information being pushed on us (the American populous). My thoughts were that these people really believe that "lying and deceiving is okay as long as it furthers my cause." I was afraid that the majority of American's did not have access to good information. But... I was wrong, when the American people smell a dead fish they go looking for what killed it. The public is so well informed and so generally able to see through the murk that it is very heartening. Thanks for writing and thanks for truly encouraging everyone to take the blinders off. Americans are so much smarter than the leftists give them credit for. It will make it continuously difficult for them to communicate relevantly - they don't know to whom they speak.

I rarely comment, but your post was excellent. When asked why I voted for Bush (I live in Blue Illinois), I said:
"It doesn't matter whether he lets me keep my guns - they won't help against a car bomb. It doesn't matter if I have insurance - it won't prevent a bio-chemical attack. It doesn't matter if I have a job or the economy is good - I won't be able to get to my job at the mall if it's been nuked. I voted for the man who wants to kill terrorists as much as I want them dead first."

I post on a message board that is based around a sports team - that will have the occasional political thread posted. Since the election there has been a greater amount than usual of political threads. I've seen this attitude for myself pervading the board from angry New York Democrats. Thanks Michele, for expressing, in much better words than I would be capable of - how i feel when i read asinine ideas like Ted Rall sprouted from people who I had no idea were capable of thinking like that. It both saddens and amazes me that people I know who I can have everything in common with (apart from our political views) can even think like that about the rest of America.

"But it's another thing entirely willfully to disbelieve the facts in front of your face,"

Well said Kevin, and I'm in the group that voted for Bush but against the Same Sex Marriage Ban. The SSM Bill was not important to me.

But I also took time to listen to the Iraqis who felt safe enough to talk about surviving torture and crawling out of mass graves to tell the story of being shot along side their entire family.

I was sensitive enough to let the image of mothers and small children laying side by side with their eyes open in a look of agony after being gassed by their dictator, affect me.

But of course I was too dull to let Usama's campaign speech for Kerry sway my vote.

Now Kevin, if you're gay and you and your partner are having trouble finding neighbors, come on out to Ohio. You're welcome to live next to me out in the country as long as you keep your grass cut and don't leave you garbage can out for more than 3 days. Please forgive the huge homemade W04 sign that hangs by the road. It replaces the 2 Bush/Cheney signs that were stolen by some of the local intellectuals.

And finally Kevin, don't hate Jeebus. He's being interpretted in many ways. The Big J was a righteous dude and I think he's a guy you'd like to have a beer with. Now I'm not asking that He replace Ted Kennedy as your personal savior. I'm just asking you to give up the hate.

Now God Dammit! All those high explosives were perfectly safe and sealed up with the IAEA coat hangers before that cowboy showed up. Now they could end up in the hands of Terrorists?!?!!

Please forgive the Midwestern run-on sentences.

Kevin,
You're one smart guy, I'll give you that. Now go grow me some corn. Objections? Ok...something easy, milk a cow. Something not in the midwest? Ok...I bet stoner boy over there can make you look real stupid while he surfs circles around you.

What you don't understand is that intelligence is relative. You absolutely can not judge the intelligence of a nation on a single test. And those idiots in the Midwest you look down upon...why don't you think about how much they need you the next time you are in your local grocery store.

Well, just fuck you Ted Rall. We live in Texas and the day the towers fell is the day the bottom "dropped out" for our little wine bar and coffee house. So on Wednesday September 12 I started a collection on our street for the families of the victims. Even though we were all broke and hurting, we sent over $2,500 to the Red Cross. Then my husband and I dug even deeper and gave each of our 5 employees $250.00 in cash, with the instructions to go out and spend it on something "Made in America". This is how ignorant folk like us fight, Mr Rall. You pathetic little man. And even though things are still not great, we take every available bit of cash and send it to Spirit of America and we adopt soldiers through Soldiers Angels. And I know that we are happier people than you, so hang on to that hate forever and may it keep you company for a long, long time.

Kevin is YOUR annointed superior. Shut the F up and let him run your life, ya hicks.

i'm glad all you red-staters are cool with bin laden's continued existence. or the thousands of new terrorists Dubya's excellent Iraq adventure has created. i guess all is well as long as you can beat your patriotic chest on an internet site because Dubya makes you feel so tough. and don't bother to spew treacly nonsense about how 9/11 affected you so deeply. if you care so deeply about us in NY, why aren't you mad at Dubya for stiffing us on the 40 mil he promised? but hey, don't little details like that get in the way of your feelings of self-importance and self-rightousness.

Alppucino, I'm not gay, but thanks for the offer. And I'd love to have a beer with Jesus, and apologize to Him for all the awful bigotry that goes on in His name these days.

And I too am disgusted by the horrors and injustices committed under the Hussein regime...what right or left-thinking person wouldn't be? But that doesn't absolve Dubya of his amateurish diplomacy before, during, or after the war, or explain away the "miscalculations" made by this administration in advocating this war to the UN and to the American people. Nor does it create a substantive connection between Iraq and Al Qaeda, or explain how Iraq had anything to do with the War on Terror in which we had been engaged.

Different Bill, you're absolutely right (btw, I'm a Carolina boy who's both milked a cow and surfed in my day, but I take your point.) But note I didn't use the word intelligence...I'm talking about ignorance. What if I said, in all defiance of reality, that cows don't produce milk, but apple cider? Or that surfing is possible because little gnomes carry your board along the waves? What if I continued to believe this, despite all evidence to the contrary? Then we'd have something equivalent to what happened on Tuesday with a significant proportion -- a small minority, sure, but enough to put him over the top -- of Dubya voters. But, again, if there's some other explanation for the figures I cited above, please enlighten me.

And thanks for the vote of confidence, Kevin-Follower. Now please take out the trash.

The DU-sewer is running a poll for their mebers about which was more depressing 9/11/01 or 11/3/04.

As of this writing, 11/3 is beating 9/11 71% to 29% with 209 votes total.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132×1321959

The response to Ted Rall, of surpassing obviousness, is that in towns all around the nation,, the wives, children, parents and friends of Regulars, Reservists, and Guardsmen stood around at reserve centers and
airbases waiting for their loved ones to board a bus or an airplane to go fight. That men and women from around the nation have stood up to fight because of what happened to New York City. That some of these men and women have returned home in an aluminum coffin, via Dover AFB, and will never even have sighted the city of New York from afar.

And Roxanne wrote above:

"For those who are the right age, able bodied and support the war, I say, "Suit up or shut up." There are recruiting offices all over America."

Recruiting offices which had few Leftists darkening their door, at least when I enlisted in the Marine Corps in 1981. How like a Leftist to appropriate someone else's honor to serve their own partisan ends. How detestable.

Roxanne also wrote:

"I worked overseas for the DoD for three years, so I am well-acquainted with the military community. My 18 year old niece just started air force boot camp, my sister is in the coast guard, my father served in the Navy, and both grandfathers spent 3 years of their lives as Marines, kicking Hitler's ass"

You either didn't pay close attention when listening to your grampas' sea stories, or else you bungled what started out as a promising lie in support of your self-righteous little pout. Or maybe both of your grandfathers are liars, and you grew up listening to tales of the fanatical Banzai charges carried out by Panzergrenadiers.

I call bullshit, and I have no confidence in the rest of your attempt to use reflected honor for your own ends. I am willing to proclaim myself wrong and apologize, and all you have to do, Roxanne, is put in the minimum of research necessary to say what operations in the ETO that the USMC actually did participate in--of course, there is no way for me to be sure that you didn't just look it up online.

Great work Michele!

Using Rall's (et al) logic, President Bush shouldn't be fighting against terrorism at all, afterall, the President doesn't live in NYC.

The Red States don't need to worry about terrorism?

Why don't you ask the folks in Nashville, Tennessee if they need to worry. The Nashville FBI Joint Terrorism Task Force just arrested an Iraqi national who purchased machine guns and grenades from an undercover agent so he could "go Jihad" on a local school.

As the guys in the salsa commercials say . . . "Nooooo York Cityyyy"?

Kevin,
Thank you for seeing my point, but you still missed my message...which is mostly my fault. I have a friend with much the same outlook on Bush supporters as you. He just can't understand how ANYONE could have voted for Bush unless they "just didn't know". He can't wrap his mind around the idea that I can know all about Bush, all about his policies, all about his plans for the future, all about his relationship with the Saudis, all about his desire to pass the DMA, all about his deficit, all about...and still vote for Bush.

My friend doesn't apply this to me, of course, but all those other Bush supporters are either dumb, ignorant, or misled...because it certainly can't be because their man (Kerry) was just a poor choice for this election.

I moved to Middle America from the San Francisco Bay Area...on purpose. I will continue to live in Middle America...on purpose.

I don't pretend that I know what it felt like to watch those buildings fall. I don't know what it felt like to lose someone I loved in those towers, on those planes, or in the Pentagon. Likewise, most people don't know what it feels like to lose someone you love or care about while fighting in the war on terror.

It doesn't make either of us "stupid", it just means that we haven't walked in their shoes, and hopefully, they will never walk in ours.

I do know that my son flew halfway across country, on his own savings, immediately following the attacks and volunteered with the American Red Cross, he helped to fill out paperwork for the victims families, and he helped to dish out food for those working at Ground Zero.

Let me tell you about this part of Middle America.

In 2000, this state was blue by 4,000 votes. In 2004 this state is red, at this moment by 13,000 votes. We've seen and heard the candidates, they've basically lived in this state for the past few months, and for months before the primaries began.

Per Capita, this state has been between 1 and 5 on the list of troops deployed in support of the war on terror for the last 3 years. We know what the human cost is for fighting this war.

This state runs between 1 and 4 in the highest literacy rates in the country. We send more of our children to college than almost any other state, and we pay for it..our state doesn't pick up the tab.

We have higher education rates, lower crime rates, smaller class sizes. We make less money, but we also spend less. Our housing costs and taxes are probably lower than the cost of most peoples car payments. More of us per capita are small business owners, including my own 21 year old daughter.

We work hard, we study the issues. We listen to the candidates speak in school auditoriums, and local coffee shops. I've never seen a study based on this, but I know that my neighbors here in a town of 1600 are much more politically aware than any neighbor I ever had while living in San Francisco, San Leandro, Oakland or Fremont.

Right now 10% of the men in our town are currently in Afghanistan.I say men because they are an Infantry unit. I will be attending the funeral of one of them in the next few days. My husband attended his memorial service yesterday..in Afghanistan.

Go ahead, call us ignorant if you like.I just happen to believe that we know the issues and we know the costs, we just don't agree with you.

Tink..the very proud wife of a US Soldier.

Amazing. Do these folks not read stories like the one of the computer confiscated a few months ago from an arrest in Pakistan(I beleive) with plans for elementary schools all over America? One of them was a new school being built in Jones County Georgia - the very definition of Red State America. We are truly all in this thing together. How hard is that to understand?

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/10/08/schools.iraq/

The issue of the right to secede was settled by another great Republican President, Abraham Lincoln.

Unlike Jefferson Davis and Ted Rall, I'm an American.

So......Kevin. You are a man of faith as you mention the UN as the slighted dignitaries in our Presidents failed diplomacy. While you've never met Jesus you're ready to apologize to him for all the bigotry in his name. You even capitalize his pronouns. You've never met him, you've never spoken to him and yet you're sure he was not a bigot or does not approve of bigotry. It's a clear example of not having all the facts and still taking a position that you feel is right. Bravo.

The "Ted Kennedy as your personal savior" was a cheap shot and I apologize.

You are a clear thinking dude and that's cool. Hussein's gone and that, at a minimum, is good. No more explaining my vote to the stars. I'm just happy I'm not paying for plane fare by the pound.

Illison, 40 mil divided by 319 mil. Let me know where to send my $0.13.

As a New Yorker who also voted red, I say don't get mad reading these idiots showcasing their true colors for all to see. Instead, welcome it. Embrace it. Encourage it. Because they'll never win another election if they don't change. Once the Republicans complete the march up the middle of the country and take WI and MN, the Dems will be relegated to regional party status.

I like Ralls' logic! Lets apply it elsewhere! Since it's only the soldiers and their families who are involved in Iraq, only THEIR vote should count regarding the war (75%+ of them support the President by the way)

Or the rich pay the most income taxes...why shouldn't they have more of a say in how that money is spent than those who pay less, or none?

I'm always ready to play this game, because the left can't win it

> Then explain these results to me.

The folks doing the survey did two things wrong.
(1) They picked the questions to get the results that they wanted. (For example, they didn't pick a question that demonstrated that folks who liked the AW ban didn't know what it applied to.)
(2) Their "correct" answers were actually wrong.

Take the "Did Iraq have a WMD program" question. They say no, but the report that they cite as evidence for that proposition shows otherwise. Sarin was found in post-war Iraq along with a program to start production as soon as the sanctions were lifted, if not sooner.

Hey Kevin,

If you'll notice, in the eleven states that had gay marriage bans on the ballot, the vote in support of the measures outstripped the vote in support of Bush, often by a goodly margin, including 57% in BLUE Oregon and 59% in BLUE Michigan. And you've heard from a lot of Bush voters, including the lady that writes this blog, that they support gay marriage AND Bush.

So you tell me Kev, why did so many Kerry supporters also vote for these anti-gay marriage measures? If it weren't for these initiatives, do yo think Bush would have won Oregon and Michigan as well? Was it the democrat in line in front of you at the polls that hates queers or the democrat behind you? From the numbers, it looks like both.

It certainly wasn't the Nader voters, and it sure as hell wasn't Libertarians such as myself, who added together wouldn't come close to making the difference. And incidently, it seems to me that those referenda are exactly what Kerry---on the record as opposing gay marriage---supported: state-based democratic decision making.

If you're going to throw stones, you should probably do it from outside your glass house.

:jackson

To paraphrase Gov. Ahnold "why should we listen to losers?"

If anyone doubts the intentions of Bush and the Republican Party toward future judicial nominations, you must have missed the slap-down given to Arlen Specter for suggesting that he would not welcome Supreme Court nominees who would vote to overturn Roe v. Wade.

Bill Frist's comment from yesterday tells us all we need to know about Bush's intentions for judicial nominations:
"I'm very confident that now we've gone from 51 seats to 55 seats, we will be able to overturn this what has become customary filibuster of judicial nominees," Frist said in Orlando, Florida. Here's another quote from a Republican Senator, in case you think Frist's comment is a fluke: "I'm wondering if they have the heart to try it again," Republican Sen. John Cornyn of Texas said. He was speaking of Democrats' use of the filibuster to block ultra-conservative judges.

Yeah, it sure sounds like these guys are eager to "heal the wounds" of the election to me. Their intention is to give us the Ned Beatty treatment. I can guarantee you that this Democrat will not just bend over and take it. If the Republicans are going to push a radical fundamentalist agenda, I'm going to stand and fight with every ounce of energy I possess.

Great post Michele. My vote for Bush was both selfish and unselfish. I voted for the man I knew would fight the war against Islamofacist Terror so that my two small children, and everyone's children as well, could hopefully live in a America that was free from the threat of another 9/11.

Everything else is secondary bullshit.

As for Rall's asinine "butt out" attitude, I don't remember seeing him taking up arms against Osama and his thugs. In fact, I remember him protesting any and all attempts to do so.

Living in the heartland of the country and after making donations to the Red Cross for the victims of 9/11 and never hearing anybody in New York commenting about the generosity of the people from across this country, it would give me pause before contributing again.

Kev, you should check out the Duelfur and 9/11 Commission reports.

It might challenge some of those concretized views you have about Saddam and his connections to WMD plans and terrorist groups including al Qaeda.

Unless, of course, you aren't open to the idea that maybe the world isn't as black-and-white as you make it out to be.

I can't get all worked up with anger anymore, not after the election. All my rage at those who promote doublespeak and unreality disappeared after I voted. I feel really good being on the side of history on this one, and hopefully I'll last long enough to be able to look back with others and say I believed and did the right thing, just like those who believed in Churchill in the '40s. Thanks Michele.

That is a horrible thing of people to say, that the rest of the country can't understand. I had to watch people I know and care about worry themselves sick because they had family and friends in New York.

And as CGHill said, I know it because of Oklahoma City. That day I was one of those people worrying about my family, about my aunts and uncles, my grandparents.

They call us heartless because they presume to think we don't understand terrorism, but they never stop to think that they don't live in a bubble. Those lives touched more people than just the New York population. They should be ashamed of themselves.

Great article, Michele. I wish my state's 55 votes had gone to Bush, but most of our voters are still figuring out what's important. Thanks for your words of insight, intellect, and passion.

Great article..I read another blogger's thoughts on this very subject today. He listed all the "areas of opportunity" in his San Diego community. Alaska and Texas not vulnerable? What about oil lines and refineries? What about dams like Boulder? In 1941 did we turn our back on Hawaii cause there are no naval bases in Nebraska? What happened to 'WE ARE ALL AMERICANS"! "DEMOCRATS ARE PATRIOTIC TOO"!

Good grief, what a major meltdown the losers are having.

Michelle, great writing as usual. Thank you for your fierce courage and huge heart. You are a true American.

One thing I have learned from being a parent - it dont matter what you say, its what you do.

The chattering class and the talking heads media are once again proven wrong by the silent majority, who voted for the man who walks the walk. All the words in the world before and after the election don't measure up to that.

The Angry Left will mutter and pout in their poisonous stew - their own hell and the best punishment we would wish upon them. The sooner they hit bottom the faster they will admit they are in denial. Its tough love, if you really care for them, to simply ignore them.

Lets get to work and support our troops.

Bravo, Bravo, Bravo.

As long as they keep "misunderestimating" us, we'll continue to win.

Great post, Michele.

That was a great post. Thank you!

Along the same lines, have you heard the Lefty claim to "reality-based communities"? My own theo-zombie response to that canard can be found at:

http://paragraphfarmer.blogspot.com/2004/11/look-around-and-up.html

Sweetie
as you know I've often felt like a bit of your sister blogger when it comes to "911"
I wrote about "911"non stop after that terrible day
and even now a few years later I can not get the sight, the smell, the feeling of cut hands being held my own trembling hands
out of my mind and my heart
so many Americans voted for bush because of "911"
and yet as one of those downtown New Yorkers
who have been accused of feeling
"like we own 911"
i felt so horrified by how Bush used
September 11th
that terrible day he was no where to be found
until that oppurtunity came for a nice safe photo shoot
and then all the terrible decisions
all the brash decisions
all the reckless decisions he made afterward
he used "911"
as the reason for
lets rush to war in Iraq
so we don't have another September 11th
lets not wait for U.N. support
lets not wait for real proof of the weapons of mass destruction

I hate that this man
went from the un-popular
stealer of an election
to a president popular enough to win the vote
by harnessing fear
by marketing September 11th

you know
i have been accused by some readers
of writing to much about September 11th
of feeling too much
of being to hurt by it
even though i did not lose a loved one
and i have always wondered
how can anyone say that to any human being who is damaged by the terrible day

when i was down there
i opened the care packages of first graders in the mid-west
housewifes in the middle of bumb fuck
who sent socks
people who probably spent weeks glued to their television sets
and no
i don't think they will ever understand the smell that i can still smell when i shut my eyes
and the feeling of scabbed hands
in my hands
but i know that i can never understand
what it feels like to many many hours
away
and to watch this all
and to feel so helpless to do anything
and to want to be there doing something

so i salute everyone who felt
and feels horror for this terrible day
and wants it to never happen again

but i do not think
it was right for this president to use our fear
and i do not think this president has made us safer
i think he has done the opposite
and will continue to do so as he turns the world against us
more and more every day

and to be less safe
and lose my gay rights
and my rights over my own body
and my liberties
is far to terrible to
even fathom

Rossi,

One hint when patronizing other people - it's more effective when you capitalize and use proper punctuation. Trying to inform someone that they are ignorant while appearing less educated lessen the punch.

And from what I read, she didn't say that you don't have a right to own 9/11, as much as she said she should have just as much of a right. She's asking for equality here.

And don't think I don't know what terror is. When that second tower fell and we still didn't know who and what was behind it, I was a civilian standing on an Air Base that has been rated the third most likely military target due to the facts that the AWACs are here. My boss was on a flight going to a major city on the east coast. We couldn't get a hold of her until the next day, when we were finally able to track down where she was grounded.

Remember that? The whole nation had their air traffic grounded. Remember the gas prices going up? Our governor had to threaten the price gougers. I had to wait FIVE HOURS because of sercurity checks to get back on base to do my job and make sure our military could do theirs.

Where were your precious liberities then?

Or are your liberties more important than the lives of everyone else?

I personally get a little irked with people who live in comparatively safe, rural/midwestern people telling me that I have no reason to be worried about terrorism, living in Manhattan and all. They should be worried about terrorism too, but it's a little ridiculous when they try to convince me that I've just been brainwashed by Chimpy McBushitler and his Fearmongers. Terrorists were scoping out places I go every day. I reserve the right to be alarmed.

That was a brilliant post. Keep them coming!