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Adressing the Previous Post

First: We are not selling the poster. That's not what we had in mind. Tomorow we will have available a hi-res version and a pdf version for anyone who wants to print out their own posters. Thanks to all who want to take my sister's idea and run with it. Makes me proud. To Oliver Willis, who wrote in the comments: bq. Michele, you do know that 9/11 isn't exclusively "yours" right?" I'm not sure what you mean by that, Oliver. Do you mean that I shouldn't be going on and on about how 9/11 affected me because it doesn't "belong" to me? Or do you think that I believe I am the only one who remembers or the only one who the attacks had such an impact on? Look over here, Oliver. For the past two years I spent a great deal of time putting together a collection of almost 200 personal stories from people the world over who wanted to share why 9/11 "belongs to them" as well. I am well aware who it "belongs" to, Oliver. Save your sly snark for Media Matters, where you can preach to your own choir with George Soros's money. To the person who thinks that it's the fault of the RNC that AQ wants to attack NY: Think about your statement. Think hard. See any holes in your theory? Why do you think they struck NY and DC in the first place? Why do you think they struck NY the first time all those years ago? Did Karl Rove have something to do with the first WTC bombing? What about the threats to Vegas or Arizona or any other place in the United States or anywhere else in the world that the Islamists have threatened to attack? Nope, no Republican Conventions there. As for using 9/11 to their advantage, a) the convention will have come and gone by that date and b) there will be no visit to Ground Zero by the president. So just how are they using 9/11? Tp D, who wrote: bq. Please stop using people's current political views as a way to judge how they were affected by 9/11 and then determine who is somehow better - better American, better patriot, more intelligent, more compassionate. You're missing the large point here. I'm not pointing fingers at everyone who isn't voting for George Bush.I'm not pointing fingers at all Democrats. But yes, I am pointing my finger at people who make posters depicting the President or even this country as the true enemy of all of us. They have not learned a thing from 9/11 and they are the ones using 9/11 in an opportunistic way to further their own political agenda. Just look at the MIHOP and LIHOP* crowds. The protesters are part of that group. Looking through the comments I can see that my point has been made. Many of you have forgotten. And the way that some of you go on, one would think that you never even knew. Willful ignorance, indeed. *Made It Happen On Purpose/Let It Happen On Purpose. Sorry I forgot to include the explanation earlier.

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» http://www.allahpundit.com/archives/000754.html from Allah Is In The House
Get your shitkickers on! It's time for. . . Blog Slapfights! Stryker vs. Hewitt! Spoons and Malkin vs. Esmay and the Commissar! Catalano vs. everyone!... [Read More]

» Under the rising moonbat from Cold Fury
Yesterday Michele posted another of her excellent ideas, which I linked in the “Read more” section of this post. Needless to say [Read More]

» Evidence of Minds Lost from Oliver Willis
So yesterday in Michele's comments I wrote the following response to (yet another) of her rants against the people planning to protest in NY:

Michele, you do know that 9/11 is
[Read More]

Comments

MIHOP?

The Muslim International House of Pancakes?

=darwin

I think MIHOP and LIHOP mean "Made It Happen On Purpose" and "Let It Happen On Purpose" respectively.

Darwin, would that make LIHOP = "Liberal International House of Pancakes"?

Funny how both types of IHOPs seem to support the flip-flopper?

How about JPFU?

Errm ... the 9/11 attacks were the fault of the Republicans???

Didn't most of the planning, and indeed the first attack on the WTC, occur during the Clinton administration? Wasn't it the Carter administration and their pansy-assed reaction to the hostage crisis in Iran that pretty much opened the door to Islamofascist terror on America?

I am trying really, really hard to keep an open mind and try to see the points being made by both sides. But my brains start to ache when I try to comprehend the utter illogic and nonsense being spewed by the ABB crowd.

I've been a life-long Democrat with many liberal opinions and ideals. But in the face of the massive threat being posed by the radical Islamists, I have to throw my vote with the presidential candidate that can and will put forth a strong pre-emptive fight against terrorism. The wishy-washy statements and "promises" made by Kerry in this regard give me a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach.

Michele, I think you miss their point. SOMEONE must be to blame for 9/11, because someone is ALWAYS to blame, according to their view.

Liberals have lost the ability to make value judgments about evil and good. They have determined that GWB is evil, therefore bad things must be his fault. Since he was evil before 9/11, anything that happened after he was elected is his fault. So, 9/11 must be his fault. And, since bad things don't happen by accident, he must have had some way to stop it and didn't.

Besides, you can attack GWB using hot air and bullshit. If you blame Muslim fanaticists and terrrorists, you must actually risk something to attack them. Since Liberals are all about "somebody should DO something", that might mean them having to put something on the line besides hate and polemic.

Clearly, the evil GWB is trying to shift the blame, and is 'wasting' American lives to do it. Therefore, GWB is even more evil. And if we just left them alone, the Muslim fanatics and terrrorists would be happy to leave us alone...

And us terrible name-calling Conservatives...how do we get off calling terrorist "evil". How can we come together, if we erect labels as barriers?

I was cynical before I came to Iraq, but I have learned something important here. It is something that 'less advanced' societies seem to understand, (and often abuse) instinctively. To wit: Some people serve civilisation and society better by being dead, than by being alive. Frankly, some folks need to die to remove them as obstacles to modern civilization. And we have truckloads of them here...be VERY glad we are killing them here, and not in your hometowns and neighborhoods.

Just my 2 dinar.

The only thing I disagree with (from my electorally impotent position as a Texan) is the theory that voting for Bush-Cheney 2004 represents a penultimate act in proving that one (a)adequately remembers 9-11 or (b) takes national security seriously.

Further, I (and people a lot smarter than I) disagree that the lack of a short-term attack establishes some sort of "Magic President" theory of security. I believe that it's a multi-generational slug-fest and that our post-2002 choices have weakened the nation's long-term position.

As for the poster-makers, I'm absolutely sure they make up a subset of people who will not be voting for Bush, but significantly less sure that they are a subset of Kerry supporters. When you get out that far on the spectrum, we're talking about people who don't vote or vote for people we've never heard of.

Bravo Michele for taking on commentors. A well-written defense that should not have been necessary, but was easily-produced because, in the end, it was geniune and real.

Michelle,
I think what Oliver is really saying is "get over it". He apparently has. I theorize that part of the problem is it happened in "NEW YORK CITY" spoken ala the Pace Picante commercial. For most of the country New York is that set that many movies and tv shows are shot on. If this wasn't such a dangerous, defining moment for our country, I almost wish Kerry would win so I wouldn't have to listen to the mewling and bawling of my liberal-lefty friends, and the delusional blogs like Olies......By the by Ollie, I think your kryptonite has worn out, because stupidity is rampant on your site.

Michele, I think you miss their point. SOMEONE must be to blame for 9/11, because someone is ALWAYS to blame, according to their view.
This is only true when blame can be cast at America, Republicans, Conservatives, Western Civilization, Patriarchal domination and Capitalism.

Maybe being named Oliver predisposes one to see comspiracies everywhere.

I'm in no mood for these blithering moonbats today, my office my explode tomorrow. And it won't be GWB who lit the fuse.

Oliver, Duncan, pick an idiot, ... it's just "hate the bushitler" and Oliver is the worse. He pays for his Brittney porn by scouring talk radio idiots ... who's the dumb klutz in that equation?

Chuck

If you blame Muslim fanaticists and terrrorists, you must actually risk something to attack them.

Let me add, it's actually even a bit more than that. It is safe for leftist-liberals to attack America/GW/GW admin/Republicans at will, because they know they are in no danger of the demagogic humbug they constantly promote. You know that "chilling" wind that silences their protests, the black helicopters swooping up Whoopi and Michael al-Moor and secreting them in re-education camps....

Let's see any of them stand on the West Bank and denounce Pal suicide bombers. Let's see them wander through Baathist holdout areas of Iraq and denounce Islamism and jihadism.

Yeah, right.

God, i love it when billionaires and their weight-challenged lackeys try to tell us "the truth"

"the theory the voting for Bush/Cheney2004 represents a penultimate act in proving that one (a)adequately remembers 9/11 or (b)takes national security seriously"

Well, since Bush/Cheney's opponents have taken the platform that Islamofascist terrorism is the least of America's concerns, and that America will only go to war if we have to, then I am going to take the penultimate action of voting for Bush/Cheney.

Kerry believes this war is about Vietnam, ownership of the American flag belongs to everybody and that he will receive respect around the world through his allies France and Germany. Vietnam was thirty years ago, who has said the American flag did not belong to everybody(what's the issue) and I no longer accept France as an ally.

Edwards believes, if elected, he and Kerry will "win the war in Iraq". Huh? Edwards not knowing that Saddam is in prison and Iraq is a free and sovereign nation has me wondering about his national security skills.

For me, Kerry/Edwards have never adequately remembered 9/11.

Three qualities of republican-fascists:

1) They claim 9-11 as their exclusive property

2) They are aginst the democratic rights to vote and protest, notice how many are gunowners - how many own these guns because they "fear" progressives and minorities? (Enough to use the said weapons to opress others)

3) They are sheep who follow their "leaders" blindly, as per Mr. Moore's move about the military-industrial-neocon cabel (USA, Inc.) that controls the world through "warblogs" and FoxNews

All of the above have been proven scientifically at Universities such as Berkely, conservatives are nationalist, lying, cowards that seek to hurt the poor and minorities. Notice how many of others children (usually dark-skinned and poor) they will send to fight for Halliburton.

Enjoy it while you can, repugs. Enjoy it while you can. Cause when Kerry wins it will be lights out.

Wow. I'm not sure which meter VoteKerry just pegged. It's either the satire meter, or the stupid meter. Either way, most impressive.

Asking people if they remember the worst terrorist attack in American history = QUASI-FASCIST EXPROPRIATION OF NATIONAL TRAGEGY FOR RIGHT-WING POLITICAL PURPOSES!

You fucking left-wing dipshits have dropped the ball on defense so badly that the mere mention of 9/11 constitutes a campaign advertisement for Bush. Better stock up on Filet-o-fish now, 'cause you're going to need something to drown your sorrows in come November 3rd.

i'm with you, ziptiy. was that satire? either way, it's hilarious. it's good to know that it's been scientifically proven that i'm a bought and paid for lying dark-skinned-baby-eating coward. and at berkley, no less.

VoteKerry: That's pretty good parody.

It is parody, right?

zipty

VoteKerry had me at "republican-fascists"

Ignore Oliver. He reeks of Pringles and failure. But at least he has Big Daddy Soro's money to piss away.

When I grow up, I wanna be just like Michele.

Thanks for being my voice.

We sit there and stare at the news and read the paper and search the internet and I'm sorry, but I get the feeling I'm being lied to every second of the day. Wait, scratch that, not lied to. Being fed half-truths. After the media gets the 20% of the truth alloted to them by the goverment, we get about 10% of that. We have no fucking clue what's going on. We are so far out of the loop we don't even know where the hell the loop is. Our media is feeding us large doses of O'Doulls beer and we are drinking it down like it's 151 rum. Feeling drunk yet? Feelign patriotic? Feeling like bombing the whole rest of the fucking world? Welcome the mother of all hangovers. The one where you realize you were never really drunk. You just acted that way because someone told you that you were drunk.

Bush did make it happen along with Isreel's mosad. Why did you think 4,000 jews and zionists stayed out of the WTC on 9/11?

Follow the money, bush - saudi arabia - 9/11 = hallibertins war!

what is satire/parody:

1) that you let FoxNews and Rove tell you what to think

2) that you claim a monopoly on patriotism, because you are too ignorent to understand that sometimes the greatest patriot is someone who knows his country is the real enemy

3) that you will trade all of your rights so that rich people can get oil, for the Jewish lobby and for the corporations

4) that you keep bringing up the tragedies of 9-11 because you live in fear - let it go and look to yourself for blame

5) that you can send others children to fight an immoral, illegal war while you chickenhawks stay home

6) that you really believe that Cheney and his puppet will win, that you can go on blogging lies, that this site is "yours" and doesn't belong to the people, the same people that will throw Chimpy out - even if he "wins" in another undemocratic election

tick-tock, the end is near fascists

Um Yeah, fuck you, I knew personally several Jewish people who died in the WTC.

VoteKerry, you're an ignorant slut. Tell me what Kerry's going to do to put my lights out, please. My right to "protest" is the same as yours. At least I can take comfort in that I use my right sanely and in a manner that makes sense. You're just a jaded limosine liberal with a huge guilt complex and a blindfold.

Why did you think 4,000 jews and zionists stayed out of the WTC on 9/11?

that you will trade all of your rights so that rich people can get oil, for the Jewish lobby and for the corporations

The veil has dropped and the Judanrein is ascendent.

Though I still find it ironic when these anti-Semites label the Jooooooos fascist.

I have to say, if Kerry had spent the last 3-4 days telling me 9-11 had taught him something, that he regretted his consistent pre-9-11 voting record on defense and intelligence cuts, and realized that the fact he was a big softy on an acquisitive Soviet empire for the better part of 30 years made him a hard sell, he might have gained some traction with me.

Nope, instead I get his Secret Plan to Open the Floodgates of World Support in the WoT. "I'm not going to discuss the leverage I'll use as President until I'm President," blah blah blah. More "foreign leaders"-talk (apparently we should be seeking the support of these people he's alleging are holding out on us). Forget the leverage he should have as a U.S. Senator to pressure the Administration to implement his bright ideas right now, and maybe save some American lives.

I call bullshit, Senator.

Michele?

Do you have the capability to track VoteKerry's IP? It would be interesting to see if s/he's posting from outside the country (Canada? France?)or Berzerkly.

Um Yeah,

If you are going to make a joke post, it is best to actually spell "Mossad" correctly. Your misspelling actually made me think you were a true loon, rather than someone with a twisted sense of humor. It's sometimes hard enough to tell the jokers from the seriously deranged, so please learn to spell.

Oliver, nobody's stopping you or anyone else from using 9/11, so what's your problem?

Tell everyone 9/11 was Bush's fault if you want to. I don't care.

But you won't, and both you and I know why.

At the time of the bombing, I clearly remember an expert saying, "They were trying to topple the towers. They'll be back to finish the job." Clinton had 7 years to prevent this. Why didn't he?

That's why you don't want anyone to use 9/11 (except for surrogates you can deny any connection with) - it'll bring up very uncomfortable questions for you and your side.

That's your problem. You can't play, so you don't want anybody to play. Don't pretend to be morally superior and keep someone from doing something you yourself don't want to do for your own reasons.

Why don't you go do your job and get paid for writing worthless propaganda for the DNC instead of bothering Michele?

I can always go to your website if I want bullshit. But actually, I get enough of it through the media, so don't wait up.

chimpie and mosadd cunspired to blow up the wtc to let hallibirtin put a pipeline through afganisan!

Faith

It certainly doesn't take long for the LooniesLefties to drag out the Jewish Conspiracy delusions, eh?

Good god, I think I'm going to convert to Judaism just so I can get into this "ruling the world" stuff. I got my eye on a nice little island in the Carribean I'd love to rule.

I wonder if they give out secret decoder rings, too?

Um Yeah: Bush did make it happen along with Isreel's mosad. Why did you think 4,000 jews and zionists stayed out of the WTC on 9/11?

I guess the 400-500 jews that did die in the WTC towers on 9/11 were out of the loop.

Question: Do you know why Oliver's eyes are brown? Answer: Way too easy....

I was also glad to read in the Mpls/Strib that Garrison Keillor will be less "political" next season. I used to think his singing was the worst part of the show....

Darleen,

I strongly advise against converting. I've been at it for 37 years and no one's let me in on all that power and money. I keep asking, but no one seems to know the password.

Ah, to have such an uplifting name as Faith. Would that it were that easy...

The lefty moonbats - and yeah, I include Oliver and Joshua in that - really don't like it when someone mentions 9/11.

"Have you forgotten?"

That's all the poster asks. And yet it has them frothing at the gills.

Why?

Because they're doing their damndest to forget, and to get everyone else to forget. Because then they can go back to sleep.

Well, we ain't gonna let you.

And why is it that so often when these moonbats get annoyed enough to say what they really think, we see the most vile anti-Semitism? From the same crowd that cries "Bushitler"?

The left used to believe in causes. They were often wrong, but they believed.

Now they're the side of all hypocrisy, all the time.

Can I get an Amen somebody! Preach it Pixy....

AMEN!

[but still looking askance at Faith, wondering if she's just trying to keep all the Zionist power to herself]

;-)

Darleen,

We can't tell you about the decoder rings. It's a secret.

Meryl:

The axolotl flies at midnight.

that you really believe that Cheney and his puppet will win, that you can go on blogging lies, that this site is "yours" and doesn't belong to the people, the same people that will throw Chimpy out - even if he "wins" in another undemocratic election

OK, that's it, "VoteKerry" is playing with us. Great job, VK, an excellent if a bit overwrought parody.

By the way, Michele, good job on running this site for "the people." You will be well-rewarded after the the revolution that overthrows Chimpy after he wins the election. Or something.

Meryl,

Shhhh...there are no decoder rings. There are no decoder rings.

Great, great post.

as for comments ... Like Kryptonite has got it about right ...

I'm deleting comments faster than some people can make them. Please refrain from personal insults, thanks.

VoteKerry wrote this:

2) They are aginst the democratic rights to vote and protest, notice how many are gunowners - how many own these guns because they "fear" progressives and minorities? (Enough to use the said weapons to opress others)

Tell us, VK, who's the King?

DrSteve,

You've always struck me as someone who, like myself, is more interested in facts then repeating long-discredited spin. Although we often agree to disagree on who and what we support, I am very distressed to see you taking such liberties with the facts in this comment:

I have to say, if Kerry had spent the last 3-4 days telling me 9-11 had taught him something, that he regretted his consistent pre-9-11 voting record on defense and intelligence cuts, and realized that the fact he was a big softy on an acquisitive Soviet empire for the better part of 30 years made him a hard sell, he might have gained some traction with me.

For his intelligence record, no doubt you are refering to this GOP spin point. "Kerry’s Amendment Cut $1 Billion From FY 1994 Budgets Of The National Foreign Intelligence Program And From Tactical Intelligence And Related Activities." (Summary: as part of a deficit reduction bill, he wanted to reduce intelligence spending by 1%--crippling!--because of concerns that they were hording.) As it turns out, he was right, and in 1995 he proposed $1.5 billion, then left off that to go back down to $1 billion again, with co-sponsors R-Arlen Spector and R-Richard Shelby and support of the Republican leadership, the cut was made. Result: Kerry was right, he stuck out an initially unpopular position and, in the end, the majority went with him.

As for his defense record, once again, I'd guess you are working off this gimicky talking point. If you scroll down to the bottom, you'll see 13 specific bulletpoints, which refer to exactly two omnibus defense spending bills (S. 3189/H. R. 5803 and H.R. 2126). Answer this for me ... is it fair to say that voting against an omnibus spending bill makes you specifically against weapons systems, even if you support an alternate bill which supports those weapons systems?

If I have judged you wrongly, I apologize, but regardless I do hope this spurs you to go back to supporting your flat statements with details as you have in the past as that makes for a more enjoyable discussion for all concerned.

Nope, instead I get his Secret Plan to Open the Floodgates of World Support in the WoT. "I'm not going to discuss the leverage I'll use as President until I'm President," blah blah blah. More "foreign leaders"-talk (apparently we should be seeking the support of these people he's alleging are holding out on us). Forget the leverage he should have as a U.S. Senator to pressure the Administration to implement his bright ideas right now, and maybe save some American lives.

No doubt you are aware that the Bush administration is already persuing the exact policies in this regard that Kerry has suggested. Kerry just claims that he would be able to personally do a better job (ie no "Old Europe" baggage, no "sure I promised I'd go back for a second vote in the UN, but then I flip-flopped and didn't bother" baggage, etc.) While I honestly doubt that Europe is so shallow as too be holding back now because of some miff (on the scale of real politik, those are minor), I really don't see the harm as long as he's still committed to defending America alone if need be (and he is).

Listen, people. Here's what's really going on with the terror alert warning. Its all an evil plot by Cheney and Rove.

In fact, this is directly from the desk of Cheney and Rove themselves:

"Ok, so this is how it's gonna go down. Everyone ready?

At some time (but I'm not sure when), at some place (but I'm not sure where), in some manner (but I'm not sure how), there will be some kind of terrorist attack (but I'm not sure which kind). We advise you to take precaution, (yet don't panic). We advise you to act normal (yet be vigilant). We are asking you to please go about your normal business (while we have cancelled all my travel plans). We have a handle on the situation (we are going underground) and you can rest assured that your president is in full control (we are sending George to the Yankee game. He drew the short straw when we ran out of room in the shelter)."

Olie Willy seems be to be on the Duncan Black and Michael Moore pathway. I guess, the coolaid has finally taken over.

Michael Moore has been preaching that there is no terrorist threat (the entire subtext to Dude where's....) for the last 2 years.

In the days following 911, he argued that 3000 people want really not very many and we should "like get over it".

Sad, to see Olie parroting the same destitude notions.

Well, I for one, ain't going to ever get over it.

Never Forget, Never Forgive, Never Surrender!

Ooo-rah!

As with previous commenters, it's hard to say whether "Trackback" was being serious or not. I'm just going to assume (given the phony email address) that s/he was.

...at some place (but I'm not sure where), in some manner (but I'm not sure how), there will be some kind of terrorist attack...

Were you down in the moonbat cave when Tom Ridge held his press conference earlier today? You know, the one where he mentioned the specific places that intelligence suggests may be targets for attack? They kind of mentioned the likely targets...Citigroup and the NY stock exchange, Prudential Financial's headquarters in New Jersey, and the IMF and World Bank buildings in DC.

And as for how the attacks might go down? Well the AP has an article online (you can find it on Drudge) which has the following:

Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge identified explosives as the likely mode of attack, as opposed to a chemical or biological attack or a radiological "dirty" bomb.

I mean, Sweet Zombie Jesus, you could at least watch the evening news before going off half cocked with conspiracy theories!

Wow, I'm up way too early for this, but thought I'd put a few thoughts in from a security briefing I received last week. Most of this is the analysis of the briefer, a man with 30 years in intel and security. He's worked both covert and overt Ops. He goes by D*I*C*E*M*A*N. He was the most blunt briefer I've heard in 20 years in the AF:

"9/11 was caused by Islamic Radicals who want this country rolled up into a little ball and hiding so we stay the **** out of their way. Neither of the Bush's caused it, Clinton didn't cause it, Reagan didn't cause it, neither did Carter. Islamic Radicals are the threat, not our own country.

Their goal is simple, they want Islamic control of the Middle East, Africa, and Europe. They've wanted this for years, they have all the time in the world, they'll die to achieve it.

America is the biggest dog in their way. They want us dead or converted or too scared to do anything to stop them.

They will hit us again. There is nothing any administration can do about it. You simply cannont stop an enemy who's willing to die to reach their objectives. Willing? They welcome death in their cause.

9/11 is currently the worst attack on our shores. There will be others. They want to make us forget 9/11 with a bigger, more spectacular, attack. They only have to be right once. Blaming intel or any administration is pointless. We must stop bickering amoung ourselves and acknowledge the fact that we're all targets. This is not fear-mongering, this is fact. Get it through your heads. Accept it. Deal with it.

Arrest warrants make them laugh. U.S. Prisons, including Gitmo, are country clubs to most of these folks.

What's the answer? We have to destroy them. We have to find them and the people who support them and we have to take them out. There is no other solution to this threat. They will not compromise, they will not listen to what we call reason, they simply want us out of their way.

We need to learn to take Israel's stance on terrorist attacks. Clean it up, mourn our dead, move on as if nothing had happened. There is nothing cold or impersonal about their way of living, it's part of the way they defend themselves. They do NOT let the terrorists affect them more than is necessary.

We. Are. At. War. The moment we forget that is when they'll attack us as hard as they can. They've been fighting this war for years...we've just finally acknowledged the fact that we're in this thing."

And remember, that's what I took away from it, he may have used other words here and there, but that's the jist of it.

Wow. Thanks Timmer. That's great!

Please ignore Trackback. He/She is playing the same cruel game as Angry at America was on an earlier thread. Responding to the content of Trackback's comments in any way merely enhances the cruelty of Trackback's sick game.

Oliver is a knob and always has been. Best thing to do is ignore his sorry leftie arse and let him stew.

Actually, Michele, my point is that you have consistently used 9/11 as a bludgeon against folks on the left as if it only ever impacted people on the right. Guess what, on 9/11 I hopped on the phone and called my relatives in the DC area because I was scared shitless. The way you guys play it is as if only Republican supporters of GWB are targets for Al Qaeda, when the terrorists could give for crap who they kill.

And the arguments about preaching to the choir ring mighty hollow after seeing all these comments.

A sphincter says what?

Timmer

Any one who has really and truly followed the history of Israel, looked at the ideology of that blind sheik and Bin Laden (fatwas anyone?), read the Hamas covenant ... well, if one has even the most basic information about the ideology of Islamism, your post should not be any surprise.

Unfortunately, vested interests in EU and here want to obfuscate both the ideology and the threat.

Thank you for a great post.

Sorry, Oliver. I've written here at least 100 times that the terrorists want to kill Americans no matter who they are or what they believe. Show me where I come off as if only Republicans are al Qaeda targets.

I use 9/11 against the people who think that 9/11 was our fault. I use it against those that want to point the finger at America instead of pointing it at the terrorists. I use it against those who were only impacted in that they got new fodder for their protests posters. If that's not you, then I'm not talking to you.

Oliver

I am confused, "the way you guys play it is as if only Republican supporters of GWB are targets for al Queda"?

Directly after 9/11, Michael Moore stated "If someone did this to get back at Bush, then they did so by killing thousands of people who did not vote for him" Michael is basically stating that Islamofasict terrorism should target only Republicans and GWB because Gore lost the election. Moore Lies.

"The way you guys play it is as if only Republican supporters of GWB are targets for Al Qaeda, when the terrorists could give for crap who they kill."

Actually, Oliver, that's the general position I hear from most leftists...

(No relation to the other Faith. Been using this nome de plume since watching a hilarious South Park episode.)

Under powers granted me by the Patriot Act, Section IV.27.AA-236, paragraph 17(a.1), I hereby inform "norbizness" that "penultimate" means nothing more nor less than "next to the last," and that all his assets have been siezed.

Have fun with 16 dollars and a 1987 model Tandy 1000 (the penultimate PC) that emits blue smoke, Word BiCzar.

Oliver - As police and security guards checked the Fleet Center, backpacks and the entire city of Boston for bombs, Ted Kennedy said: "Today the only thing we have to fear is four more years of George Bush."

As George Bush made plans to implement the recommendations of the 9/11 commission, Howard Dean said "I am concerned that every time something happens that's not good for President Bush, he plays this trump card, which is terrorism"

This is how Howard Dean and Ted Kennedy prove that they remember 9/11.

This is how they prove that their party is capable of leading a nation in a time of war - by claiming that terrorism is 'George Bush's trump card.'

This is one of the main reasons why why the Democratic convention produced no bounce in the polls for Kerry. This is why Kerry will probably lose the election.

Yes, Michele - you ARE pointing fingers at everyone who isn't voting for George Bush.

"So Lisa took some of the images from the slideshow and put them together on poster with the words Have You Forgotten across the top. She made 100 copies. On the night before Election Day, she and I will head out to the nearest polling places and (within legal distance) and hang the signs on fences and telephone polls."

What you've said is that 9/11 should affect who someone votes for. Given your statements, it's not a big leap to assume that you mean Bush.

YOU are the one politicizing 9/11 in this case.

Timmer, Gonna be sitting in at his briefing sometime this week. Looking forwards to it, remember the last time I was at one, he is very good.

Sorry for the delay in responding. Busy day at work. Soli typed thus:

no doubt you are refering [sic] to this GOP spin point

No, not really. I get the business about the hoarding agency (and was that Kerry's stated reason, or something that was also happening at the time?) needing punishment. I see a lot of consistency in Kerry's FP record going back to his statement in 1971 that "we cannot fight communism all over the world, and I think we should have learned that lesson by now." I want to make sure Michele hasn't really disabled comments before I spend too much more time on this reply.

In the meantime, can you name 3 non-defense, non-intelligence agencies for which Kerry sponsored budget-cutting legislation?

As to your second block quote, Kerry's pushing a pretty thin gruel here, and it gets thinner as the bargaining theory kicks in. He's now relying considerably on the support that's supposed to materialize should he become president, and the people whose support he requires must know how much hangs on their assistance to him should he need to make good on his pledges. They will extract compensation for this. But mainly I think it laughable that he requires us to take his word on the results he expects to see. It's as big a joke as Nixon's Secret Plan was.

Don't get me wrong, I may even be to the point now where I think Kerry could be better for the long term fiscal health of this country (Republicans will remember to be conservative, gridlock, etc.) which is vital to winning what will be a long hard slog. I just can't get past his long history of wetness on serious threats to Western civilization.

DrSteve
Stop throwing Kerry's senate voting record up. It DOESN'T matter. The man's a disabled vet for goodness sake, running with the honorable Senator Handsome, and they've got H.A.I.R. Keep it on the issues, man. Kerry's just trying to become the next black American president without pandering to special interests or alienating the far left.

He's the last best hope for freedom. He's for, He's against, He's...forgainst.

He's everyman. He's everywoman. He's everynongenderspecific. He's...sorry...threw up on myself... Just couldn't keep it up.

YOU are the one politicizing 9/11 in this case.

Better the pubbies playing politics than the dems playing w/my family's lives.

That was funny, spacemonkey.
Did you stay up all night writing that joke?

Ben,
No, just all morning. It tested well with a small focus group.

Yes, Kerry is a disabled vet, dammit! He deserves a little respect. The next time he falls off his snowboard, remember that. If he has to blame the secret service agent, because he cannot face his own disability, cut him some slack.

As someone with a hispanic mother, thus disabled(according to affirmative action advocates), I intend to vote for Kerry, my brother in disability.

DrSteve,

In the meantime, can you name 3 non-defense, non-intelligence agencies for which Kerry sponsored budget-cutting legislation?

He was a co-sponsor of the Gramm-Rudman-Hollings Act of 1985 which called for cuts across the board in discretionary spending (so, all of them). He supported HR 2264 in 1993 if you want to wade through 2000 pages to figure out some specific agency names from that, go ahead. I fully admit that digging through Senate records to figure out what things actually mean is a pain in the ass, and I don't blame you for not knowing about the positive deficit reductions Kerry has supported. My comment was really that you just didn't support the statements that you made with anything.

I agree that Kerry's claims about getting foreign aid are thin (I think I made the clear in the original comment. However, it's no "secret" what he's going to do, he says it at every chance. He's going to do the same as President Bush is trying to do, except he thinks he'll get a better response with his sparkling personality. Silly? Yes. Nixonian quality secret plan farse? No.

Rex, where does that leave the Democrats?

Sometimes a lot of conservatives seem to have trouble with subtle ideas and aplly the cold hard logic of a six year old to every situation. 9/11 happened for a lot of reasons, but weakness wasn't one of them.b sometimes stuff can be fixed without beating our little brother over the head because he took our toy.

Ya gotta wonder why the Democrats aren't up in arms about all the fat cat billionares trying to buy an election.

silencerbent,

Yer absolutltly right. No beating our little brother over the head because he took our toy.

Beat the snot oput of him because he intentionally killed 3,000 of our brothers. And has vowed to do worse. We take these people at their word. As we should have some Jew haters from the 1930s.

You might wish to advise them to moderate their rhetoric. For their own sake. And yours.

Whoa, was that the cold hard spelling of a 6 year old, silencer?

Uh,

Sortelli. Neither my nor silencerbent's spelling is so hot. Still the ideas are evident.

Care to comment on those?

Silencerbent didn't have any ideas, only simplistic whining. As for your ideas, I would think Sortelli agrees with them. As for your spelling, if you are so sensitive about it that you take issue with someone's criticism of someone else's spelling, maybe you should just... spell better.

Soli:

I fully admit that digging through Senate records to figure out what things actually mean is a pain in the ass, and I don't blame you for not knowing about the positive deficit reductions Kerry has supported.

You're veering into condescension. I blame too much time listening to John Edwards on the stump :-)

So, OK, Kerry did have some real deficit hawk credentials. I acknowledge those and appreciate the reminder.

I found the following piece pretty helpful in putting Kerry's record in context.

http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?DocID=147

It's neither supportive nor damning, but makes it clear that the RNC fax machine isn't relying on one or two votes or sponsorships.

I see there that he has acknowledged the short-sightedness of some of his earlier votes, which takes me back to my original statement -- he had the opportunity during the convention to tell me he'd learned lessons in other places than Vietnam, or since 9-11, and he didn't. I need him to state, during a current campaign event, that he repudiates that phase of his voting record. It would also help to have him apologize for the phony vets at Winter Soldier and in the VVAW, but I'm not holding my breath.

(I do have some lingering cultural opposition to the man, as it turns out)

But you're doing him credit, so keep it up!

DrSteve,

I didn't mean it to be condescending ... digging through 20 years of incredibly verbose and boring Senate bills to try to come up with an intelligent opinion is a torture no one should be forced to endure! In fact, that is the most pressing reason I have to call for term limits ;).

It's neither supportive nor damning, but makes it clear that the RNC fax machine isn't relying on one or two votes or sponsorships.

Well, one thing that Fact Check alludes to in that article is that many of the post cold war cuts were also supported or sponsored by the Republicans, in particular by President HW Bush's Secretary of Defense Dick Cheney (yes, that Cheney). So they've been trying to just fax out a set of cuts which excludes a good deal of the record. I don't think anyone needs be apologizing for the military cuts that were made after winning the cold war. We were spending too much and now we're not.

http://members.cox.net/classicweb/Heroes/heroes.htm
worthwhile to look at, lest we forget. Be sure to read the info click on the page...

I was sent something not long ago...
It is those soldiers in Iraq and around the world, past and present, who fought bravely for all of us, to sleep in peaceful slumber, to have the things we do enjoy and often take for granted, but most of all...to enjoy the absolute freedom to act just as you please and say what you will when disagreeing with anyone.
Try to remember that...
Along with that freedom comes responsibility...another thing a whole lot of people have forgotten or arent courageous enough to accept. This back and forth is getting quite embarrassing...why cant we debate facts instead of resorting to name calling? Or indicting the whole of America. I am very proud to be an American...and will do whatever I can to protect what she represents. Including supporting my adult son's choice to go to Iraq. For those that want it both ways...calling Bush to task for the 9/11 hearings...then complaining about the validity of terror alerts? What is it exactly that you want? I cant figure it out.
As for not enough information...when a local police department is investigating a crime or gets a tip ..they dont broadcast it...to do so would jeopardize their case or even their ability to catch the "bad guy". With the information highway the way it is today...oh yeah ...lets tell the terrorists exactly what we know and expect...thats real intelligent.