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The Forgotten Enemy

The terrorists are striking out for New York. That sentence can be read two ways, depending on who you are and what you believe. Pick which one applies to you: A) This summer the real terrorists are coming to town - and they're having a convention. B) Sources: Al Qaeda Plotting to Attack New York City Corporations If you picked "A" then you most likely believe that "B" is nothing more than a lie, a piece of propaganda designed to scare you into becoming a war-mongering neocon. If you picked "B" then congratulations. You know who the real enemy is. For the "A" crowd, the enemy is not al Qaeda. No, the enemy is a frenzied mix of cops, capitalism and conservatives. As the protesters prepare to descend on New York City, it is said that al Qaeda prepares as well. I have a feeling that only one of those groups will make it to New York this summer. That would be the protesters. And they can march to their heart's content and chant and sing and ring their bells and hold up their signs that the republicans are the enemy, and all the while they will act as if the bootheel of John Ashcroft is grinding into their duct-taped mouths. What they will never mention is this: In the two years and eleven months since September 11, 2001, there has not been another attack on U.S. soil. For all the chatter and imminent threats we have heard in that time, al Qaeda has not managed to harm us at home again. They will never mention the arrests of terrorists, the planes that were held up because of threats, the warnings that were heeded and acted upon. To do so would be to admit that the war on AQ is working. It's succeeding. Instead, they will launch claims that none of the threats were real, they were nothing more than subterfuge put out by the evil Bush administration to first throw you into a state of fear and then hypnotize you with the false sense of safety when nothing happens. All their refutations are based on conspiracy theories. Yet here we stand all this time later with not a single threat realized. Here we stand without having faced another attack on our homeland. Something is going right, no? Well, of course they say no. Because to them, the terrorists are here and they are attacking New York right now in the form of preparations for the Republican National Convention. To the protesters and all who follow their line of thinking, the enemy is their leaders. The terrorists are the Republicans, not the people who want to burn down our buildings, kill our citizens and destroy our country. Perhaps these people have short memories and the images of 9/11 have already disappeared from their minds, replaced by images of Bush as Hitler. Perhaps the grief and anger of that day has given way to the ironic idea that the burning twin towers represent - instead of an attack on their country - an attack on their liberties by their own government. Maybe they need a reminder. [click for larger image] My sister Lisa made that poster on Friday. Lisa was traveling around some weblogs that day and came across the 9/11 slideshow at Little Green Footballs. Her second thought (her first being to look out her office window at the empty space across the water) was that everyone who thinks our enemy is us ought to be made to sit down and view that slideshow because they have forgotten. Not only have they forgotten, but they have consciously made a decision to replace those images with images like this one. So Lisa took some of the images from the slideshow and put them together on poster with the words Have You Forgotten across the top. She made 100 copies. On the night before Election Day, she and I will head out to the nearest polling places and (within legal distance) and hang the signs on fences and telephone polls. I doubt it will change anyone's mind as to who to vote for but perhaps it will give the people who have forgotten some pause. The war on terrorism and specifically the war on al Qaeda is working. For those of you who picked "A" in the question above: the only reason your war is still waging on is because you don't know who the real enemy is. Or you have forgotten.

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Comments

The saddest thing is that at the very bottom of all their arguments is the belief that any attacks against us are completely justified... we deserved it/brought it on ourselves. How can you get through to someone like that?

No, I haven't forgotten. And, yes, I disagree that the War On Terrorism is "working".

So here we are for the umpteenth time being alerted to the possiblity of a terrorist attack, this time in New York during the Republican Convention.

Well, its a plausible possiblity, and we should be on our guard.

But so was California/New Mexico (the last alert I saw come over the wire), and Boston with the Democrats, and the Fourth of July, and & and & and & and, going back for the last three years.

But how many of these "alerts" have ever answered the questions who? where? how? and how many?

None that I know of.

Who, of consequence and in the leadership, have we brought to justice for terror?

Where can we can we point to now that is truly free from the possibility of an attack?

And what are we ordinary people (never mind the bureaucrats and the spooks for the moment) doing, but staring in the dark, imagining a thousand possible enemies, seeing none, and getting ever more hysterical in our vigilance against the terrors of the night?

I don't call that "working".

And, no, I don't know who the real enemy is, I don't know where he is, I don't know what he is doing, and I don't know where he will strike next.

Neither do our "leaders".

That's the problem.

"And, no, I don't know who the real enemy is..."

Well, you've been told over and over and over again. I am no longer willing to call this attitude anything but willful ignorance -- you don't want to know.

I, for one, would like a high-resolution .jpg of Lisa's poster so I can print out some of my own...

The real tragedy is that those posters will be torn down within 15 minutes.

People don't want to remember nor to acknowledge the truth, that like it or not we are fighting a war that was declared on us over 10 years ago and it took losing the WTC in the second al Queda bombing attack (and getting a President with a backbone instead of a perpetual hardon) to finally wake up.

WHY DON'T YOU SEND YOUR CHILD TO IRAQ, CHICKENHAWK? GO WATCH FOXNEWS YOU SHEEP! WHY DON'T YOU SEND YOUR CHILD TO IRAQ, CHICKENHAWK? GO WATCH FOXNEWS YOU SHEEP! WHY DON'T YOU SEND YOUR CHILD TO IRAQ, CHICKENHAWK? GO WATCH FOXNEWS YOU SHEEP! WHY DON'T YOU SEND YOUR CHILD TO IRAQ, CHICKENHAWK? GO WATCH FOXNEWS YOU SHEEP! WHY DON'T YOU SEND YOUR CHILD TO IRAQ, CHICKENHAWK? GO WATCH FOXNEWS YOU SHEEP! WHY DON'T YOU SEND YOUR CHILD TO IRAQ, CHICKENHAWK? GO WATCH FOXNEWS YOU SHEEP! WHY DON'T YOU SEND YOUR CHILD TO IRAQ, CHICKENHAWK? GO WATCH FOXNEWS YOU SHEEP! WHY DON'T YOU SEND YOUR CHILD TO IRAQ, CHICKENHAWK? GO WATCH FOXNEWS YOU SHEEP! WHY DON'T YOU SEND YOUR CHILD TO IRAQ, CHICKENHAWK? GO WATCH FOXNEWS YOU SHEEP!

Wow, the kool-aid crowd is really freaking out!

Hey, The enemy is RNC! You forgot to Heil Moore at the end of your post.

The real tragedy is the use of 9/11 for partisan politics.

Just because someone does not hold your political views and support the current administration regarding the way it has responded to the threat of terrorism in this country does not mean they have forgotten the terrible losses we all faced that day. It does not mean they were less affected. It does not mean they are cold-hearted people who do not feel the heartbreaking pain every time a picture of the attacks is seen.

Please stop using people's current political views as a way to judge how they were affected by 9/11 and then determine who is somehow better - better American, better patriot, more intelligent, more compassionate. We all suffered that day. We all sat in front of our televisions and sobbed. Many of us suffered personal losses. Many of us experienced this tragedy first-hand. Not all of us have come to the same conclusions about how to achieve a world where everyone is safe.

It is truly revolting to see this national tragedy used in this way.

Joseph Marshal wrote:
But how many of these "alerts" have ever answered the questions who? where? how? and how many? None that I know of.

First, it is possible that, because of the alert, the planned attack was delayed or had to be re-planned to happen in a different manner.

Then, remember that there are these groups that are from around the DC area that are affectionately refer to as "alphabet soup". These guys might know more, and passed that knowledge on to field officers who've worked to prevent the planned attack. Protecting "sources and methods" is importatnt, as any Clancy reader can tell you. ;)

Who, of consequence and in the leadership, have we brought to justice for terror?

Hmm. Off the top of my head, I'd say Zacarias Moussaoui is in the process of being "brought to justice", and Ahmed Khalfan Ghailani was just arrested in Pakistan.

Maybe one of the top ten most wanted men in the US for terrorism isn't someone of "consequence" in your eyes?

Where can we can we point to now that is truly free from the possibility of an attack?

This is the most difficult thing. I can't find it right now, but I read a poster, somewhere on the Internet, that said something to the effect of, for US to win the war on terror we have to be right 100% of the time. For us to lose, we only have to be wrong once.

This is what's most difficult about the war. The fact that it is so asymmetric is what makes it so awful.

Do you think that al-Qaida will more than bat an eye if Usama is captured or killed? They'd probably issue a statement about how grave a crime this was and how they were going to take revenge, but it would just be another reason du jour for them.

So, can we point to somewhere that's free from the possibility of attack? No. We can, however, point to the areas that have not been attacked, despite the best efforts of our enemies, but we can't say, at this point at least, "Whew, terrorist threat averted," because when we do, that's when they'll pop up again.

It's horrible, but, remember, we didn't ask for it, they feel we deserve it.

Maybe someone can get an anti-Soros to fund the production and free distribution of the poster. I'd want at least one.

To help further the cause that we must never forget, here's my humble effort:

www.threeyearsout.com

My choice is ... well, not "A", "A" is reserved for the uber moonbat (ie see the protestors at the Democratic convention with the "Kerry = Bush = Hitler" signs) and DU trolls.

I am also skeptical about "B." I have no doubt that al Qaeda would like to stage a large attack. I don't think the terrorists care who we elect president (moonbats tell me Osama wants Bush, the Kentucky GOP tells me Osama wants Kerry), but I do think another successful attack on American soil would increase their international credibility and boost recruitment.

On the other hand, I worry a lot about how transparent our intelligence process is looking. 10,000 stories have already warned the terrorists not to "increase chatter" before they attack, and I think it's a big mistake to assume they are stupid. It's quite possible that the terrorists are purposely creating false positives in order to root our American informants (ie, tell this guy you're hitting New York and that guy you're hitting Seattle, then whichever story gets out, you know which guy to whack, etc) or for some other nefarious purpose.

One thing I found extremely interesting was this little tidbit:

Intelligence sources say al Qaeda plans to move non-Arab terrorists across the border with Mexico.

Did you hear that? That's the sound of Ann Coulter getting bitch-slapped by Norman Mineta. Ouch! Let's all give props to President Bush's Secretary of Transportation who was smart enough to anticipate this on day one.

It is truly revolting that 9/11 is being whitewashed out of existance on behalf of partisan politics.

The poster created by counterconvention and rncnotwelcome is representitive of this form of whitewashing on behalf of partisan politics.

"It is truly revolting to see this national tragedy used in this way"

D, I take it that you agree the counterconvention poster is revolting.

As a non-American, all I have to say is well done. A poster like this needs to be made. I'm sick (and I mean to the pit of my stomach) of seeing left wing propaganda pointing the accusing finger towards the US and her allies.

Assuming you don't mind, I am going to make a 34 X 44 poster of that and use it next week in Dallas when the Protest Warriors have their weekly Operation against the LLL.

Michele

Cleanup on the troll aisle again!

-------

Implicit in the delusional "arteeest" poster, with the smoking WTC in the background and the tagline "real terrorists" is the old standard charge of a Xtian/Zionist plot to blow it up to stage a "coup" of the US for [cue the screaming horses] Corporate AmeriKKKa and Israel.

Joseph

First off, do you want to be told of every bit of credible evidence, or do you want to be kept in the dark? One of the first charges used by the conspiracists is that GW admin knew there had been threats and didn't go public with them. Kind of a damned if you do, damned if you don't thing, eh?

Secondly, another day without attack/crime, etc doesn't exactly make for frontpage news. Most law-enforcement or security is about frustrating or diverting criminal activity. And there is so much stuff going on in the background that you, as a civilian, will never hear of. IE, are you aware of what's happening in your community in regards to gangbanging? (psst, no area is immune from it)

Soli

They may be non-Arab, but I still will bet you it won't be any Norwegian grandmas.

Sam Hall: That was my thought as well. Get some of the Protest Warriors at the "Counter Convention" to carry some of these would be a rather powerful message to the other side.

This national "tragedy". A terrible tragedy.

Not a atrocity, not an act of war by foreign enemies comitted to our destruction. 9/11 is sad.

We should weep and mourn, and then reform by being nicer. Not react by perpetuating the "cycle of violence" (by using force against state-sponsored terrorism, and prevent future collaboration of say, Saddam Hussein with terrorists. If we wipe out the terrorists, the terrorists win. Can't you see that?

I'm certain, at least as they were looking in that stewardess's eyes before they gouged them out of the sockets, they didn't LIKE what they did, and it was our fault in the first place.

/brain damage.

Last time I checked, you had to be 18 (or an adult) to go into the military and you had to volunteer...what's so hard about that concept for the left?

A pdf of this would be good...we could then link to it on our blogs.

Mike Borrelli "Get some of the Protest Warriors at the "Counter Convention" to carry some of these would be a rather powerful message to the other side."

While playing the song of the same name.

You know, I just LOVE the LLL spiel...

WHY DON'T YOU SEND YOUR CHILD TO IRAQ, CHICKENHAWK?

1. I am in the military, and so are a lot of people, you idiot. I've been over to the sandbox. And I can guarantee that the vast majority of guys over there went there not just for WMDs but because this was an evil dictator who needed to be removed from power.

2. There are no children in the military. The minute you turn 18 you are old enough to make any damn decision you want. I'm so sick and tired of this "bring our children home" shit. We have an all-volunteer military. Anybody who is 20 and in the military right now joined after September 11th and knew what they were doing. Anybody who joined before September 11th knew they could get sent into a war and die. But you know what? We sign up anyway, because we love our country in a way you can never comprehend.

You idiot.

This needs to be marketed. Preferably in cardboard stock with a metal frame, suitable for posting in front yards across 'flyover' land. Anyone have any ideas how to do this?

ps....Enemy - you jerk. My son IS in Iraq. And he's damned proud of it, too.

Michele, you do know that 9/11 isn't exclusively "yours" right?

And as far as terror is concerned, this hasn't stopped Al Qaeda from killing innocent people in Bali, Spain, and Iraq. Not to mention all the Al Qaeda affiliated people killing our soldiers in Iraq, now that the country's a shooting gallery. I'd feel a lot better if this president could focus on killing terrorists for five seconds. Instead, the terror level is going up today - and considering I work about a block and a half behind the White House its not exactly an abstract threat to me.

Those who view the RNC as the "real" terrorists are fools. Those who question their tactics against terrorism include fools, the wise, the politically ambitious, the nihilists, combinations of those things, and even those who want to take our attack on terrorism and make it a much bigger war. It sucks for Bush and Company that they have such a visible position, but they have to take the attacks on their policy because this is a democracy (okay, it's a republic, but still....)

The war on terrorism has been quite successful in many ways. The Iraqi war is both a distraction from and a part of that war. If, because of bad information, Bush can't sell the toppling of an evil dictator, then he's a crappy leader and doesn't deserve to lead this war. He's avoided that issue too long and it's still biting him on the ass. If he could admit to mistakes rather than pretend that his fairy tale truth will be revealed once and for all, then he won't be a smug, arrogant bastard who gets replaced by another smug, arrogant bastard after the election.

And does al Queda wish it could take out the GOP convention and a lot of New York with it? Gosh, that's a poser! May as well ask if Michael Moore wants seconds at the buffet.

Michele

Another thought, can you sister put that graphic on a t-shirt, say through cafepress?

I'd buy a few!

C. All of the above.

Screw off. The anti-RNC protesters didn't ask the RNC to come to our city. A bunch of political opprotunists in the Bush administration did. Whoever decided to bring this convention here is absolutely insane-- you want to blame somebody for the increased convention-related terror warnings? blame rove and his ilk, not the protesters.

Why yes, DARPANet, we all know that NYC is a Republican-free Zone.

And those who even think 'conservative' thoughts had better watch their backs, eh?

schmuck

Oliver, some perspective please. Please.

We can't assess success or failure without also counting numbers of Al Qaeda killed and captured, attacks thwarted, finances shut down.

Your standard is (apparently) perfection. No attacks at all, not fewer attacks than there would have been.

We can all acknowledge imperfection in the WoT, but let's measure it, ok? Otherwise, your argument is simply not serious.

Um ... no. Thats not what I said, so get off your persecuted horse for a moment.

I said that the RNC was stupid beyond belief for bringing the convention here. "Hey, I have an idea!! Lets take the national political convention of the party in power, a party hated by millions of people all over the world (including terrorists) and bring it to the city MOST AT RISK of a terrorist attack!! F-ing brilliant."

Darleen: read before you spout off, twit.

So.. anyone think the Republican National Convention is going to lock up all the protestors behind razorwire a block and a half from the convention center like the Dems did?

Or do you think they'll have free-range protestors?

"Michele, you do know that 9/11 isn't exclusively "yours" right?" )liver Wilis

Yes it is - she called dibs on it first. I heard her. ;]

Oh Jaysus on a Pony, DARPANet

NYC is the "most at risk of terrorist attack city?" How do you measure that? What makes it more "at risk" than say, San Francisco, Los Angeles or San Diego or Seattle?

Oh, cuz NYC has you in it?

Kush meer in toches

Darleen,

They may be non-Arab, but I still will bet you it won't be any Norwegian grandmas.

If you system that can be gamed, it will be gamed. If you give anyone a free pass, whether it be Norwegian grandmas or Al Gore look-alikes, you're introducing a point of failure in your system. If you single out grandmothers to get an easier pass through security, then the results of that action are easily predictable. Assuming our enemies are too stupid to take advantage of us is horrible strategy. You expect me to believe that every single Norwegian grandmother is so on the ball and alert that there is no way a terrorist could slip something into her bag before she gets to the security checkpoint?

I wonder how many times in my adult life, I've heard the story about the "real results that are too secret or too important for you or I to know about".

Okay. Maybe they are.

But unless, sooner or later, they have some tangible result that I do know about, why should I trust in the existence of these great secret victories indefinitely?

We are 90 days from the most important election in my lifetime. The point of such an election is to make a total of the results of our current leadership and judge justly if we want to keep it.

So I don't hold truck with results that are "too secret to know about". Show me the balance sheet, it's time for me to vote.

This is why I have no quarrel with partisanship about our safety. We elect our leaders from parties. We don't get them from anywhere else. So we'd better take a good close look at their partisan views and what they do to the leadership they offer.

Let's look at the balance sheet.

First, yes there have been no attacks since 9/11 on American soil. This means solely that we've done some things to make attacks harder--you can't get on a plane easily with a box cutter, for example.

But I defy anyone to say that ANY Admistration, Democrat or Republican, would not have taken such obvious precautions.

I would point out that we wouldn't HAVE a Homeland Security Office without a lot of Democratic hell-raising and we would NOT have had an independent 9/11 Commission if the White House had had its way. So this accomplishment is clearly bipartisan.

Second, we have started two wars, both still unfinished, which toppled two very nasty regimes who didn't like us much. We have also put better governments in their place, but we are STILL fighting to keep them there. And not necessarily succeeding.

No, the wars are not "over" (to quote the President directly) and the missions are not "accomplished". And it was an outstanding piece of foolishness to pretend that they were.

So this second accomplishment is pretty good, but certainly not complete or even assured. And it has come with some minuses whether the posters here are willing to examine them or not.

Third, we captured Saddam Hussein and have turned him over to justice in his own land.

Great. This one is unequivocally finished, unequivocally good, and unequivocally to the credit of the President.

That the best case I, as a Democrat, can make for the leadership of the President. If anyone has anything to add, I invite it.

I would note however that absolutely NOTHING else in this country, from deficits & fiscal responsibility to the "jobless" economic recovery to the "culture war" has received any serious attention from this Administration.

Not even most of the items on the "philosophical conservative" agenda. Nada.

What does my candidate of choice have to say about it all?

America Can Do Better.

Now at the moment, all he can do is propose, he cannot act. All action must come from the White House and we Democrats can but point out how little the White House is prone to do anything but react and that not very efficiently.

But anyone who asserts that my candidate will not act in what he belives to be the country's best interests is simply a blinded fool. He might be wrong about those interests, but he is not lying when he says he will serve them as best he can.

And anybody who asserts that I, or most Democrats, do not understand that AlQueada is an enemy, is an insulting partisan hack. We might be wrong about our current leadership but we are in no way treasonous to our country for being so.

And I, for one, am mortally tired of the constant insinuation that we are.

It's my flag, too. And I'm willing to give anyone a verbal bloody nose who implies that it isn't.

Michele and lisa: Thank you for creating this stunning and evocative poster. I would like to buy some to hang in my neck of the woods-- are you going to sell them over the 'net?

Oliver - Is this how you spend your Daddy George Soro's money by bothering people by dropping idiocy on their website?

Funny if the RNC dared to put on the dog and pony 9/11 show that the fearsome, pro military ack DNC did you wd be the FIRST to spit the pringles out of your mouth to cry foul.

What a joke.

Soli

Where did I say "ignore" Norwegian grandmas? There should be a standard of security, but also there should definitely be more intense level where it concerns people of interest. And that would include young men from hostile countries of the ME.

To set up this false "random" standard that for each two or three ME young males has to be "balanced" by a female senior citizen from the far northern regions of Europe is just damned silly in the least.

BTW... all packages and luggage is/should be inspected, regardless of passenger; however, due to the reported new tactics of coordination where terrorists might come into a plane each carrying a threatening component, later to be assembled in air, is yet another impetus to "profiling" groups flying the same flight.

Joseph

Strange, your flag statement is almost identical to the projection I've been hearing quite a while. I've seen no Republican party official or politician even imply that the flag doesn't belong to all Americans.

Certainly a bit different from Teresa's charge of certain citizens being un-American.

He might be wrong about those interests, but he is not lying when he says he will serve them as best he can.

And I'm sorry, but if Kerry's definition of what is in this nation's "best interests" is what I consider wrongheaded (ie deferring to the UN in "real" humility, fighting terrorism is "primarily" a law enforcement issue), then his "sincerity" in pursuing such interests is no virtue.

"The real tragedy is the use of 9/11 for partisan politics."

Try as I might, it's hard to think of a more moronic statement regarding September 11.

Great job with the poster.

That someone like Oliver WIllis thinks this poster is partisan reveals far too much about his thought processes than I believe he realizes.

Oh my! The Left is awfully defensive today, aren't they? Whenever anyone to the right of Ted Kennedy attempts to remind people who the REAL ememy is, (you know, the religious fanatics who've told us to our faces that they intend to destroy us; Left or Right, it doesn't matter to them) they automatically accuse that person of wrapping her/himself in the flag and claiming exclusive right to it. No-one here has done anything of the sort. Sorry guys, but we know what you really are: narcissist partisan hacks portraying yourselves as paragons of moderation and civility. Ha!

Excellent points, Oliver! You're getting a bonus this week!

DARPANet seems... upset.

Screw off.

You're not my type.

The anti-RNC protesters didn't ask the RNC to come to our city. A bunch of political opprotunists in the Bush administration did.

Yeah, how DARE the republicans want to hold a national convention! And how dare they choose America's largest city to hold it in. And how dare they choose a city that was attacked three years ago by terrorists.

I mean, everyone knows that the had RNC chosen a different city, no one would protest them.

Whoever decided to bring this convention here is absolutely insane--

Um, perhaps they thought that it might bring them some frikkin' political advantage?!?!

(Rolling eyes)

you want to blame somebody for the increased convention-related terror warnings? blame rove and his ilk, not the protesters.

Oh, there is a brilliant idea.

Heaven forfend, no sitting President has ever referred to war or attacks on the US during a campaign season.

This poster should be on billboards and on TV. I hope someone from the RNC is reading this blog.

What's the deal with CNN? They spend months broadcasting encouragement to our enemies, and then they go semi-hysterical at the announcment of heightened terror alerts.

I caught Howard "double D"(DelusionalDoublespeak) Dean with Wolfie earlier, suggesting that the Bushies made this announcement for political advantage.

Then there was Rev Al, who must have taken his meds this morning because he appeared to be more moderate than Dean.

Is it just me, or are these folks short on rational analysis and real long on emotional reactionism?

Oliver Willis,
Believing in the abstract concept that Islamofascist terrorism began on 9/11 is in itself a threat.

America is certainly safer today than all the years following the 1993 World Trade Center bombing and definately, much safer since the 1979 Iranian hostage situation.

I have no doubt that today more Islamofascist terrorists have been killed in the past three years than have been in the past twenty years leading up to 9/11.

Why have you forgotten all of the 'killing fields' of Islamofascist terrorism over the past two decades?

Four Islamofascist terrorists attacks against Americans and American interests alone during the 1990's and nothing was done. Since you are so close to the White House, please tell me just how many terrorists were killed all throughout the 1990's?

YOUR city, DHIMMINet?

Joseph Marshall

"why should I trust in the existence of these great secret victories indefinitely?"

Because you're still alive.

"Second, we have started two wars,"

Scroll up a little. There's a photographic reminder of why those wars were waged. Remember, they attacked us.

I wonder how many times in my adult life, I've heard the story about the "real results that are too secret or too important for you or I to know about".

Okay. Maybe they are.

But unless, sooner or later, they have some tangible result that I do know about, why should I trust in the existence of these great secret victories indefinitely?
"Indefinitely"? It has been less than three years and you use a word that implies until the end of time. Fitting. Liberals still support the New Deal and all the other failed social programs that have been going on for 50+ years with no results, yet demand 100% success from efforts by Conservatives immediately. Telling.
We are 90 days from the most important election in my lifetime. The point of such an election is to make a total of the results of our current leadership and judge justly if we want to keep it.
That is not the only point, and to suggest so is sheer folly. There are two points, the first you stated, but the second and more important one is to judge if the opponents to the current leadership are a BETTER choice. Kerry has proven that he is not.
So I don't hold truck with results that are "too secret to know about". Show me the balance sheet, it's time for me to vote.
Show you? You cannot see it in the world around you? Take off your blinders. How do I know you have blinders? Let's read what you think the "balance sheet" is:
First, yes there have been no attacks since 9/11 on American soil. This means solely that we've done some things to make attacks harder--you can't get on a plane easily with a box cutter, for example.
WRONG - there have been no SUCCESSFUL attacks on our soil. Stating that there have been no attacks at all is dishonest as you are not privy to all the intelligence (as you have stated above).
But I defy anyone to say that ANY Admistration, Democrat or Republican, would not have taken such obvious precautions.
Fine, I will. Clinton did not take any precautions when he was warned about these attacks in the mid 90's. He told Algore to address it, they setup a commission, came up with some things (INCLUDING racial profiling!), and then promptly let it all go when there were some objections from the airlines. They would rather have no bad news in the press then a safe America. And Clinton was told in a PDB that terrorists wanted to hijack planes to fly into buildings, which is more than Bush was EVER told by anyone or was written in the handover documents from the Clinton Administration.
I would point out that we wouldn't HAVE a Homeland Security Office without a lot of Democratic hell-raising and we would NOT have had an independent 9/11 Commission if the White House had had its way. So this accomplishment is clearly bipartisan.
BS on both counts. We would have had both, but we would not have had the second one IN THE MIDDLE OF A WAR.
Second, we have started two wars, both still unfinished, which toppled two very nasty regimes who didn't like us much. We have also put better governments in their place, but we are STILL fighting to keep them there. And not necessarily succeeding.
This is just garbage. First there is only one war, and we did not start it. The war was started at the end of the 70's and has been going until this day. Militant Islam declared war on us. It was less of an enemy than the USSR so it did not get top billing during the 80's. During the 90's they attacked us multiple times, but the people in office did not want to have to fight a war, or take on the tough issues, so they ignored it when they could and then launched a few missiles when they could not. 9/11 and a new president with an actual plan of attack changed things. There is NOT two wars, but there are two separate theaters of operations where our military is engaged.
No, the wars are not "over" (to quote the President directly) and the missions are not "accomplished". And it was an outstanding piece of foolishness to pretend that they were.
Once again, one war, and the POTUS has never said it is over. The statement was Mission Accomplished when Saddam was removed from power. Are you suggesting that Saddam is still in power by your statement that the mission is not accomplished?
So this second accomplishment is pretty good, but certainly not complete or even assured. And it has come with some minuses whether the posters here are willing to examine them or not.
The greatest military drive, swiftest victory and quickest change over from Occupation to sovereignty in history is just "pretty good" in your mind? You need to study history and get some perspective. I suggest you start with Victor David Hanson
Third, we captured Saddam Hussein and have turned him over to justice in his own land.
Great. This one is unequivocally finished, unequivocally good, and unequivocally to the credit of the President.
And this gets a one word praise from you: "Great". It does not address that in order to turn him over to "justice in his own land" the government and legal institutions have to be up and working in that same land. Nor does it address that there has to be a majority of people that want to see him tried. This second point flies in the face of all the Liberals that tried to say Saddam was an elected president and that the people did not want to be liberated. If the people of Iraq had loved Saddam as much as the anti-war crowd and liberal claimed they would just free him from prison and put him back in power, yet they are going to see him executed for his actions. But in your view it is just a "great" thing to liberate two countries and return sovereignty in under 3 years. To those with some intelligence and knowledge of history it would be called "historic" or "unprecedented".
That the best case I, as a Democrat, can make for the leadership of the President. If anyone has anything to add, I invite it.
I have a ton of stuff, but your next statement shows that you are blind to it as well.
I would note however that absolutely NOTHING else in this country, from deficits & fiscal responsibility to the "jobless" economic recovery to the "culture war" has received any serious attention from this Administration.
BWAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAaaaaaw. Oh please. I will just address one point as I could fill up pages on all of them: economic recovery. The liberals and Democrat party love to qualify it as a "jobless" recovery so they can dismiss the recovery side of things. In the last year of President Clinton, 2000, the economy was already going into recession. Just over 8 months into the new administration we suffered the worst attack on US soil in the heart of one of the financial centers of our country. ALL air travel was ceased for over 4 days, which is no small thing. An enormous amount of commerce is done via the airlines, and I am not talking about moving people. At any one moment in time 75%+ of all airplanes in service are in the air, not on the ground. For four days this was stopped. I am leaving out the psychological impact to the populace and the innumerable instances of smaller financial loss suffered by individuals and small companies due to 9/11. With everything that was going on and that happened we should have been in a economic depression after 9/11 for a long time. Yet less than 2 years after it we were already in a recovery. And if you had any knowledge about the flow of things, jobs are the last to go as the recession gets worse and the last to come when it ends. This is because businesses do not want to lay off workers and wait until they have no choice but to do so (this started in 2000 as the faux "boom" was over) and these same businesses wait until they are at full production with their current workforce (signaling that the recovery is real) before they hire new workers as they do not want to hire people only to have the recovery stop and force them to fire people again.
Not even most of the items on the "philosophical conservative" agenda. Nada.
This is true, and what happens when a Republican tries to play nice with the Democrats. Who wrote the largest education bill? Ted Kennedy. The largest Farm Bill? Tom Daschle. Not all of the spending is Democrats fault, but a majority is.
What does my candidate of choice have to say about it all?
Kerry is really your first choice? If you could have any one else would you still choose Kerry?
America Can Do Better.
Now at the moment, all he can do is propose, he cannot act. All action must come from the White House and we Democrats can but point out how little the White House is prone to do anything but react and that not very efficiently.
But anyone who asserts that my candidate will not act in what he belives to be the country's best interests is simply a blinded fool. He might be wrong about those interests, but he is not lying when he says he will serve them as best he can.
All I have to say to disprove this is to quote Kerry himself:"Any attack will be met with a swift and certain response."Kerry will not ACT against terrorism, he will RE-ACT to it. He will wait until we are attacked BEFORE he will take action. How many of your fellow citizens are you willing to let die before Kerry feels justified in taking action? The number has already been too high for Bush and he is taking the war to the terrorist, but Kerry seems to think that we need to be hit AGAIN before he will do anything.
And anybody who asserts that I, or most Democrats, do not understand that AlQueada is an enemy, is an insulting partisan hack. We might be wrong about our current leadership but we are in no way treasonous to our country for being so.
And I, for one, am mortally tired of the constant insinuation that we are.
You need to take a long hard looks at your party then, cause you are in the minority of people that understand who the real enemy is.
It's my flag, too. And I'm willing to give anyone a verbal bloody nose who implies that it isn't.
Ok Howard Dean. Since we are on the subject of things we are tired of, I am beyond tired of DEMOCRATS talking about ownership of the flag. No Republican in office has ever made a claim of owner ship on the US flag, nor have they suggested that Democrats do not have a claim. It is only the Democrats talking about how they are "patriots" and that "the flag is my flag too". I am beginning to believe that these statements are being made by people of guilty conscious who secretly see themselves as non-patriots and unworthy of the flag.

Smells like moonbat in here.

Great poster you guys! Don't let these castrated fools get to you. They just feel guilty because they have no spine and are fearful. I see people complaining about the openness of the administration in announcing the terror threats. This is a sign they'd sooner just sleep through it and hope to wake up alive after. The way I see it, they have stopped the attacks before they can be launched and it bugs the LLL.

Nice Blog BTW. Lurked here a time or two. have a great day.

I almost forgot to tell the moonbats to get a life.

I almost forgot to tell the moonbats to get a life.

Never forget.

Wow, does that make me witty enough to be a Lizardroid now or do I have to kill a Muslim with my bare hands first?

Well, not my bare hands, but with the swift might of my terrorist-killin' keyboard.

Tap-tap-tap-tap.

Enemy is RNC:

people don't send their kids to Iraq. All soldiers in Iraq are 18 or older. In case you hadn't heard, that is the age of consent, and they are there voluntarily. YOu people are so pathetic with your "chickenhawk" label. Many you label as such are war vets, peacetime vets or are presently serving in the military, law enforcement or emergency services. Some are too old, some are too old and a combo of the above. You are a twisted, scared and maybe evil liar. Even more pathetic because you lie to yourself and believe the lie.

In order: Get a brain, get a heart and get a life.

Freakin' moonbat!

That's my Angela! Always stopping by to leave a snarky comment but never brave enough to leave a real email address with her words.

Angela, have you ever contributed anything but sarcasm to a conversation?

Angela

do I have to kill a Muslim with my bare hands first?

I guess you haven't been paying attention. (ooo..surprise!) Let me put it this way, if I could stick you in timemachine and send you back to September 1941, I think you'd be saying "do I have to kill a German with my bare hands first?" (as opposed to a Nazi, just as your Muslim as opposed to Islamist parallels), and I'm sure you'd recognize the following sentiments
When this war started in Europe, it was clear that the American people were solidly opposed to entering it. Why shouldn't we be? We had the best defensive position in the world; we had a tradition of independence from Europe; and the one time we did take part in a European war left European problems unsolved, and debts to America unpaid.

National polls showed that when England and France declared war on Germany, in 1939, less than 10 percent of our population favored a similar course for America. But there were various groups of people, here and abroad, whose interests and beliefs necessitated the involvement of the United States in the war. I shall point out some of these groups tonight, and outline their methods of procedure. In doing this, I must speak with the utmost frankness, for in order to counteract their efforts, we must know exactly who they are.

The three most important groups who have been pressing this country toward war are the British, the Jewish and the Roosevelt administration.

As Yogi Berra would say "It's deja vu all over again."

Angela, have you ever contributed anything but sarcasm to a conversation?

Um, nope. And how will listing a Hotmail account make my snarkiness anymore valid? All it's ever gotten me in the past is a bunch of unpleasant emails calling me the c-word, "moonbat" or "the hottest chick to ever walk the face of the earth."

It's hell being me.

But Michele!

Angela "hates hate" so anyone who "hates" she "hates" but then again that would make her one of those that "hates" so I guess she really "hates" herself, too....

Can't we just 5150 her?

;-)

Darleen,

Thanks. I'm voting for Bush now.

Settle down, Darleen. I only stop in every now and then. I've even said nice things about her over at evil Oliver Willis' pad. We just have completely opposite views on George Bush and his plan for winning the war on terror (whatever in the hell that happens to be at the moment).

the war on terror (whatever in the hell that happens to be at the moment).

Islamofacism kinda slipped by you, eh?

Here's a dilemma:

What if, despite warnings and everything being done right, there IS a terrorist attack in New York? And, what if that attack targets and kills LIBERAL protesters?

1. Will conservatives cheer and announce "good, they deserved it", or mourn them as Americans first? Would the liberals do the same?

2. Now that some of their own have been victims, what will the liberal drumbeat be? Must we understand the terrorists, or will it be GWBs fault again? Or will it finally be time to strike back without fussing about trying not to hurt anyone?

3. What will they do if the inevitable hearings tell us that we did everything we could to prevent the problem? Or will administration scapegoats be named immediately, and pilloried by the left throughout the hearings?

This stuff makes my head hurt. My rational mind just can't get around the willful ignorance (blindness?) that the liberals must impose on themselves to maintain their idealogical purity...

First, yes there have been no attacks since 9/11 on American soil. This means solely that we've done some things to make attacks harder--you can't get on a plane easily with a box cutter, for example.
I find this amusingly naive. Only someone so completely ignorant of the martial arts that they think Bruce Lee is Sarah Leeís little brother could make such a statement.

Almost anything can be used as a weapon. Training, knowledge and intent are the real weapons. Everything else is just a force-multiplier. Iíll use the example of the common ink pen (there are more dangerous common objects, but Iím trying to be brief :-). You have a round plastic shaft, sharpened on one end, blunt on the other. Obviously, you can stab someone with the sharp end (only a complete moron doesnít see that), but the blunt end can be used for a number of pain-compliance techniques. So can the shaft (and Iíve seen triangular-shaped pens. The edge has great potential :-). And a blunt-trauma to the throat augmented by either the point or the blunt end is most likely lethal (unless you use the same pen to perform a tracheotomy) .

Beginning to get the picture? When I teach rape self-defense to non-martial arts women, the first thing I teach is the pen. Stick him with the pointy end, ram it home with your palm, and run.

Do you really think potential hijackers are too stupid to figure this out?

Iíll say it again, because it bears repeating. Training, knowledge and intent are the real weapons.

Everything else is just a force-multiplier.

No, it's the plan that slipped by me. Golly gee, Darleen, don't make me 6347 you.

Angela,

You seem to be suggesting that Bush has pursued several different plans against terrorism. What do you think they were? Can you list them?

Chuck

You know, as much as the Leftist protesters live in an alternative Republicans=Ultimate Evil world, they both have a right to protest and I would hope they get to do so unmolested (as long as they are peaceful). And I know, personally, any terrorist attack that would physically harm them would have me both mourning them and calling for heavy penalties to be immediately inflicted on the perps. I certainly never considered either the politics or religions or nationality of the victims of 9/11, and I'm sure there were many among the thousands that I would never invite to dinner or put on my Christmas card list.

Darleen:

I agree, we are all Americans first, and liberals, conservitives etc. second. It's like:

I can pick on my brother, but you better not try it! ;)

Angela

So, you think there is One Master Plan to deal with the pan-Arab, international ideology dedicated to the defeat of Western civilization? Or should I say, do you think there should be One Master Plan?

Say, maybe you could go to your local DA and see what their one-size-fits-all Master Plan to combat all crime is ...

Yessirreebob, I think 5150 could be useful here.

Battle plans last until the first shots are fired. From there the winner is determined by who can adjust and adapt to the situation. Only a moron would adamantly stick to a plan in the light of a developing combat action.

Darleen,

[Dark, malevolent laughter]

5150, or too much 151?

:-P

Joeseph Marshall

These is nothing preventing any Democratic or left-wing site from putting up pictures of what happened on 9/11. For reasons known only to themselves, they are not interested in doing so. Why do you think that is???

If the Democratic party is going to decide that America is a good country, and that it wants to defend it, and wrap itself in the flag, then great. Climb aboard! It will be a distinct change from the last thirty years, but better late than never.

[These is nothing preventing any Democratic or left-wing site from putting up pictures of what happened on 9/11. For reasons known only to themselves, they are not interested in doing so. Why do you think that is???]

Because the only dog they got in this fight is a chihuahua. They fought Bush tooth and nail, had to be dragged into action and overpowered in congress to fight the war. They have a weak record on the only real issue in this election and they know it. They want to avoid this issue at all costs. Tough tit as my mom would say.

I hope Bush puts it up front for all to see. I only wish we could know about the covert stuff that his administration is doing to keep these creeps from pulling another 9/11, but we won't know that for years, maybe never.

Iron Fist

Hell, man, I'm almost ready to start pouring that 151 over the rocks for myself right now!

;-)

wrong.

In case any of you are honestly interested, the nyc-imc covered 9/11 as well as any blog, including this one.

here: http://nyc.indymedia.org/index.php?limit_start=1024

and here: http://nyc.indymedia.org/index.php?limit_start=1012

and so on.

Do you think the hundreds of thousands of new yorkers who marched against the war in Iraq were just out of town on September 11, 2001? Do you think the hundreds of thousands that will also protest the rnc were just asleep that day? We remember. I remember. I was there too.

But you see, we draw lessons very different from 9/11 than the lessons that Michele draws. This is too bad, but its an honest difference of opinion. The problem comes when right-wing fascists start to use 9/11 as a platform for fear, or racism, or just to say that we should march in lockstep and do whatever our fearless leaders tell us because THEY MAKE US SAFE.

Michele's entire blogging life is governed by fear. This is sad. There are those of us who are goverened by hope, hope that another world, a world with no 9/11's and no prememptive wars, is possible.

DARPANET,
Yawn

Heard all that crap before. Talk talk talk. Go talk a terrorist to death, I dare ya. Go protest one to death. Oh that's right you want to make them "feel" better about themselves and boost their "self esteem". Well, I got news for ya bud, they have none. They are Muslims and as such aren't allowed any of the joy and latitude of thought to have self esteem or feel good about life. They aren't supposed to. They WANT to seeth and hate. They hated us all along. You are the one that don't get it, mister.

"And anybody who asserts that I, or most Democrats, do not understand that AlQueada is an enemy, is an insulting partisan hack."

Jesus, Marshall, I QUOTED YOU. Let me remind you again what YOU SAID RIGHT HERE:
And, no, I don't know who the real enemy is, I don't know where he is, I don't know what he is doing, and I don't know where he will strike next.
What the hell, can't you even keep track of your own opinions? I know that they are stupid and wrong, but I would think that at least you, having formulated them yourself, would at least remember the things you claim to believe. Damn.

Andrea Harris:

Heck no, moonbats change their minds more often thatn they change subjects. They are the definitive example of confusion.

Holy shit you people are fucked up. After 9/11 MANY MAJOR GROUPS brought events here or talked about bringing them here to bolster the failing economy as well as confidence that NYC is a "safe" place to be. Grammys anyone? The only reason the Oscars weren't moved is because the self-important glitterati were too chicken shit to come here (with apoligize to DeNiro and Scorcese, we know you tried, even though it was much better not having them here). Nothing so damn different about having the RNC here. And yes, we actually did invite them, Bloomberg campaigned hard to get them here.

Perhaps you will stop casting blame when your head's been blown off by a suicide bomber. Blame, blame, blame and the politically deluded 9/11 Commission. How about stop worrying about blame so much and start worrying about how to stop the terrorists? Isn't that a damn better use of your time? While we're on that subject, I still haven't heard Kerry's plan for the WoT, except maybe the line about adopting the 9/11 Commission's recommendations, which say a whole lot of nothing and regurgitate quite a lot of what Bush has already implemented.

moonbats change their minds more often thatn they change subjects

One would wish they changed their underwear as often....

DARPANET

The links you gave are from late 2001. I'm glad that indymedia could spare some mention of what happened on 9/11/01, back in 2001. But it seems a little odd that since then they cannot mention what happened. In fact, even their coverage from Sept 13, 2001, seems a little sick. These are the second, third and fourth paragraphs of the story;

"The grief and anger is palpable, as is the anxiety. Vengeance is being planned, but citizens are calling for temperance.

However, some Americans are expressing their rage by verbally and physically assaulting anyone thought to be Muslim or from the Middle East. Israel is capitalizing on this tragedy by further repressing the Palestinian population, despite denials of any involvement.

While the corporate media continues to provide detailed accounts of the tragedy and relief efforts, they fail to ask tough questions about how or why this may have happened. But activists and independent journalists are taking creative measures to get people to think about other possible perspectives."

Yep, real hard-hitting stuff there. Two days after the worst ever terrorist attack, and indymedia's biggest concern is .... what the wicked US is going to so, and what the wicked, stupid US people are going to do.

Care to try again?? Based on your evidence, the left are every bit the traitors we thought they were.

Darpa - let's talk Indymedia. Let's see how they have forgotten.

Here's a picture I pulled off of Indymedia on 9/2/03.

Here's one from Indymedia from 9/5/03.

That's just for starters, Darpa. I could go on all night. So stick that "Indymedia remembers" theory up your ass.

Heh heh, but whatever you do, don't doubt their patriotism. You'll see examples of it at the RNC Convention. The Indymediots can't remember their last bong hit let alone 9/11/2001.

Fahrenheit 9/11 is over $100 million at the box office and Michele's the one getting lectured on exploiting terrorism for political purposes. Fucking SWEET!

Kerry2004,

Here's an Idea.

Go to a public place, douse yourself with five gallons of gasoline, and strike a match.

That's how you should make a statement.

Just a little helpful advice.

Kerry2004

I'd add to Iron Fist's suggestion that you do it while bungee jumping.

Just think of the entertainment value.

To Oliver Willis, who wrote in the comments:

Michele, you do know that 9/11 isn't exclusively "yours" right?"

I have to disagree Oliver Michele has every right just like you and I. Just remember what happend & who done it. I did not see what happend on the TV at first I heard it on radio in fact I just turned it on to hear the roar of the WTC falling with people screaming in the background with nothing else untill the newsman said it was the WTC then I thought oh my 70,000 died. When I was in the Navy's Sub School in 1978 I visited the WTC I saw all the people inside. I am now 50 years old an American Family Farmer for about 41 years. I am at war against Islamic terrorist I have no fear of them like cowards do would I go to war if asked YES I WOULD but I was told I am to old. I can still pull a trigger and have a true aim I can still turn one of two keys to launch a rocket and make a Islamic city die I am also strong enough to take Islamic scalp's!

If there really was some dark "Bushitler" conspiracy you'd think they would've planted a few WMD's in Irak to find and blew up a few buildings in the US just to keep us "chickenhawks" subservient!

Iron Fist:

What a fantastic suggestion. We should encourage all of these idiots to do the same.

Kerry2004:

What a fantastic waste of time your post was. Nice to see you use your free speech to produce such intelligent out-pourings.

Kerry2004 must have gotten some extra strong crank this time. Hey bud, stick to weed.

I am not just sad. I am angry. I am terrifed. I am outcast. I have spoken my mind one too many times. I have displayed my thoughts instead of my flag and I have been lambasted for it. "They attacked our freedom," people say, and yes, they have. Because no longer do I feel free to say what I want, to voice dissent, to not cave in to mass patriotism. I'm sorry, but I cannot wrap myself in the comfort of a flag. Blind loyalty does not make me sleep any better at night. Kids coming home from public school singing "God Bless America" frightens me. Weren't we arguing about separation of church and state just a few months ago? Why is god welcome in your school now? Hypocrisy abounds.

Hey, did you know that the letters in "BUSH LIED" can be rearranged to spell:

LUBE DISH
BLUSH DIE
HUBS DELI
HUB SLIDE
SLUB HIDE
BUS DELHI

And

DIE SHLUB?

Well, this thread sure went all over the place. I really love posting on these blogs. I lurk occasionally on the liberal ones, and, just between you, me, and the World Wide Web, it's about as much fun as a regular Monday staff meeting. But this one is more entertaining than Texas Women's Roller Derby!

I do suppose that it is just impossible to get anyone who supports the President here, to ever acknowledge that those who disagree with them might love this country as well as they do.

It also seems that those of the Conservative persuasion can never bring themselves to admit that one jot or tittle of even the most minor and insignificant points of their beliefs might ever be mistaken. Omnicience Is Us!

Reminds me, actually, of this fine passage somewhere in Dickens:

"And while the Government is always right, wholly right, unquestionably right, and unfailingly right, it was never so right as in this matter..."

But then I suppose the Right Wing is always, by definition, right. Right?

Ah me! Like leader, like followers!
So I'll leave you with one last thought:

"Of course we're fighting terrorism!
Now watch my drive!"

Oh, and hey, could someone pass Angry a Kleenex?

Angry at America:

Wrapped in a flag? I call it fighting back and having some backbone about it. This isn't blind patriotism by a long shot. In case you don't know, God Bless America was almost our national anthem. For those who believe in God, he is everywhere, whether you choose to recognize it or not. That is your choice. I see no one disallowing dissent. WTF are you talking about. Give valid examples.

Oh, I see, Marshall, you're a jerk. Never mind.

And actually, I'd say this thread, far from going "all over the place," has so far seemed to stay pretty much on topic. Not that you'd know about that, MISTER Marshall -- you with your inability to keep track of your own rantings.

WHy do conservatives let Rove and the neocons and FoxNews tell them what to think?

Think for yourself. vote Kerry and go watch F-911 and read Moore and Chomsky. Don't let the Right Wing claim a monopoloy over patroitism. Sometimes real patriotism means burning the flag of your nation because it is evil and sick.

["Of course we're fighting terrorism!
Now watch my drive!"]

Yet another victim of the cut and splice methods by Michael Moron in FreakinHigh 9/11.

Scenes filmed from two separate news stories and spliced together. Um did you believe that Superman can fly too? DO you worry that brain eating zombies will arise from sonme top secret government experiment gone wrong?

It's a freaking movie. A FICTIONAL movie. Not worth the money you paid to see it. Sucker!

Angry, American, et al.,

Why do you think that people who support Bush don't think for themselves? I absolutely abhor this ver typical liberal tactic. It's just possible that we have all looked at the same things you have and taken away a different conclusion, ya know? I'm not a brainwashed blind patriot, I'm an informed, well read patriot who believes in her country and not those who have attacked it with brutal, senseless violence.

Basically what they want us to do is stick our collective head in the sand and pull it out only when they tell us everything is ok. And don't ask any questions when you finally get to look. Just nod and say, "Thanks Uncle Sam, aren't you swell?"

Joseph

Ah! Again, a nice exercise in projection.

The one thing you'll find amongst most GW supporters is that we do NOT find GW the Second Coming, that many of us have some real issues. Some are uncomfortable with his unapologetic religiousity (it's ok today to genuflect before crystals..that's hip and cool... but Jesus? hey, scary man) some of us are not too keen on his bi-partisanship with people like Uncle Teddy on education (what the f**k is the Fed doing in the education biz in the first place??)

But you know, ALL of that .. whether gays get married, whether the government keeps selling the lie of Social Security or allows people to direct their own retirement money, the question on vouchers, the question on "affirmative action"... all of it, all of it is academic if Islamofascism is not decisively dealt with.

Kerry said if he got to be President he "would go before the UN in real humility." He has also stated he believes terrorism is "primarily" a law enforcement problem. He also has given the impression that stability around the world is more important than democracy (quite at odds with John F Kennedy, the last liberal-but-anti-leftist President we've had).

Kerry may "love" his country, but he's willing to to follow in the footsteps of Jhimmi Carter and have it slip into subservience of the UN and no longer be in a leadership position.

For the sake of my daughters, I won't vote for him. Period.

A@A

One of these days, vote with your brain, not your gonads.

Think for yourself. vote Kerry and go watch F-911 and read Moore and Chomsky.

You know, it's funny: I did all of that. Well, ok, I didn't vote for Kerry, not being from Massachusetts. But I watched Fahrenheit 9/11, I've read both Moore and Chomsky, and I always think for myself. All three made it that much easier to agree with the "neocons," support the war on Islamism, and develop unmitigated contempt for left-wing opinion. I had to go other, respectable sources just to remind myself that not every liberal is a delusional whack-job who can't tell the difference between reality and an Indymedia rant. That takes some discipline.

Bush defends his actions with his "we are at war" quote. I didn't know being at war makes the constitution obsolete. He then has the gall to say "we must not let foreign enemies use the forms of liberty to destroy liberty itself." So it's ok to let our government, which has become our own worst enemy, destroy our liberties. Because honestly, I can only see the give them an inch they take a mile thing going on here. Who is to say they will stop at military tribunals in a time of war? Or with immigrants? Or with suspected terrorists? Who in some dark part of their mind isn't thinking...jesus fuck, did I say something really bad against the government on my website? Now that the FBI is probably reading our email, and Bush probably thinks if you go against his views then you are a supporter of terrorists, can we still say "hey it's a free country" anytime someone tells us not to do something? What the fuck is going on here, people?

A@A!!

Quick, brother! Behind you! Is that your door opening? The FBI has found you....run run run!!!

AAARRRRRHHHH!

Angry,

Just what liberties have you lost? Be specific please.

Angry
You are mis-named. You are not angry, you are stupid. Nobody is being thrown in jail for saying bad things about America. No matter how much they might deserve it. Nobody is being jailed for saying Bush=Hitler. You can continue to pretend that you are a noble freefom fighter, risking everything to save the world from the evil fascists. But one of these days you may want to grow up and put these childish fantasies behind you.

Note to angry: I know where those words came from. And I have never denied who I used to be. I'm just embarassed at how easily swayed I was by my (then) fellow liberals.

I don't run from my past. I make amends for it.

PostalWorker, it's OBVIOUS what liberties he's lost. For one, Ashkkkroft has been down at his local library seeing what books he's been reading. Oh, I forgot - (a) that hasn't happened and (b) statute authority prior to the Patriot Akkkt allow for that. Oh, well maybe it's the freedom to speak against Bush w/o going to a concentration camp. Oh, I forgot - no such squelching has occurred.

Maybe it's the blue moon that's making Angry man so Angry?

Angry is afraid the FBI will see what books he checked out from the library, or they might see his name on the Jihadi of the month book club rolls.

Or maybe they might find those contributions to an Islamic terror front "charity". If he hasn't been bad why worry?

As I recall the Islamists are Angry at America too. Are you sure your an american?

Everyone ignore Angry. He/She is making a personal point to me specifically.

Engage GAZE mode

Sure thing. I still say he's either French, German, rabid Canadian or some Islamist to be so angry at America. Nuff sed.

"basically what they want us to do is stick our collective heads in the sand and pull it out when they tell us everything is okay. And don't ask any questions when you finally get to look. Just nod and say "thanks Uncle Sam, aren't you swell"

Yes, this describes the situation all throughout the Clinton years and defines Kerry's War on Terror platform perfectly.

The Democratic Party is not referred to as "Uncle Sam's Plantation" for nothing.

If you print up more posters, possibly a more effective caption would be this:

"WE'LL BE BACK."

E.Nough a few posts above: very well put. I don't often have the time anymore to read threads here, and after all the garbage (yes, projectionism is the right word) spewed above I'm kinda glad I don't.

Could these people be any more scripted and unoriginal in thought? Does their hyperbole know no bounds? Anyone who puts forth "you right wing fascists blah bla blah platform of fear blah blah lockstep racist blah blah blah" as a serious argument, as one skimuddlepud above did, is not someone who's got much going on up in the noggin. He/she has been very well trained, though.

I can't believe that they believe we are the "unthinking" ones.

too many comments as usual, but consider that we may have more than one enemy. Maybe terrorists AND opportunistic, greedy politicians are our enemies, in different ways. I think there are too many grey areas to call every republican politician Good, willing to serve our interests above their own. I think it's possible for al-Qaeda to be evil and certain politicians to be evil as well.
And it goes for dems as well.

Please do not reply to Angry at America. He/She is playing a very mean trick. By replying, you only make the meanness more effective.

And if Angry at American is reading this I can only say: The difficult task of changing your strongly held views as a result of thoughtful reflection is a sign of maturity and intellectual sophistication.

Michele, Average Joe

Noted.

Seconding PostalWorker

GAZE

A@A must be a kid. No mature adult is that naeve.

and no postal worker would be so stupid as to not know how to spell "naive."

Linked to your site thru lgf (I am registered as afbrat there).

I'd like to make a donation to your site but I can't use paypal. Is there another way I can send you $20?

Also, is it possible to purchase one of the posters you made? I'd like to frame it and hang it on my porch here in the People's Republic of Portland OR. I get a lot of dim dems knocking on the door (3 last week) pushing Kerry. Not only have people here forgotten, they are determined to believe it never happened. Sad.

Thanks.

There are those of us who are goverened (sic) by hope, hope that another world, a world with no 9/11's and no prememptive (sic) wars, is (sic) possible.

Were you saying something, DARPAnet?

That 9/11 poster is terrific. I'm a former NYer living in SF for last five years, post to LGF sometimes under name "Frisco Patriot".
I'd very much like to get copies of those posters to put up around the SF Bay area as the days get closer to the election. Can this be done? Also, small handbills of the pic you put together can be distributed all over the country. This area, as you certainly know, is LLL Central, and that poster (until it's defaced) could be a powerful reminder of Truth. Am I able to contact you personally to get some? Is it possible?
Mickey Disend