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It's outta sight in the dead of night*

Boy, this pipe bomb that exploded on a NYC subway last night, coupled with this idiotic judge determining that police can't search "bulky" bags during the RNC convention makes me feel really secure about going. Hey, look at that. The pipe bomb was in a backpack. And backpacks can't be searched, according to Judge "Protesters love me 'cause I'm so" Sweet. Yoohoo! Terrorists! It's open season in New York! Just make sure you pack your arsenal in a bulky package and no one will question you. Wanted: Body armor and a sense of bravado. Willing to pay good bucks for either. *

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» Pipe Bomb Explodes in Times Square Subway from Josh Harvey's Middle East
They say they don't expect a terrorist link, but a backpack filled with black powder and ball bearings in the Times Square station? I wouldn't rule out terrorism so quickly. (*Via:* "A Small Victory":http://asmallvictory.net/archives/007246.html.) ... [Read More]

» Pipe Bombs and the RNC from PoliPop
It seems that an early morning small explosion in New York's Times Square subway station may have been caused by a pipe bomb. This is particularly worrying given that New York City is technically at Orange Alert, higher than most... [Read More]

Comments

Today's Daily News lead editorial had the best response to Sweet and sage advice for Bloomie and head cop Kelly: tell the judge to "shove it."

So if someone does get a bomb in and it goes off - I would hope that this judge gets his ass hauled down to Gitmo for aiding and abetting terrorist activity. And if said bomb does get in and go off, whats the chance that everyone will freak out across the country (even if its a home grown loony that does it) and the whole 'possibly move the elections' retoric goes into high gear - the left will be screaming facism and that Bush is trying to steal the election.

Some times I get really tired of the stupidity in this country as exemplified by the people in charge of things.

That judge is a danger to the general populace. He needs to have every case of his reviewed, and have his ass disbarred.

That judge is an idiot.

This is NYC, at a major event, that the President is attending.

Oh, well. They'll just search anyway and handle the lawsuits later. A few bucks is a small price to pay for the safety of others.

Yet another reason why the ACLU is out of touch with just about everybody.

If Alan forgets his credentials, just have Sandy Berger smuggle him i-

Never mind.

Yeah, fuck the constition.

Stupid judge.

You know, the cops in Cuba can search anything anytime. Maybe y'all should move there.

Muuuuuch safer.

You mean the constitution?

Left, I have to say that this is probably the most idiotic comment you have ever posted here.

Go think about it and maybe you can figure out why.

(thinking)

'Cause I misspelled constitution?

[and you've misspelled stuff plenty of times, Miss Smartything]

Seriously though— what's your gripe? The guy said cops don't have the right to search people on public property without probable cause. That reads… kinda like the Fourth Amendment. No? What's your angle?

Call me a ghoul for thinking these thoughts, but if these moonbats start setting off pipe bombs at the Republican convention, I think you're going to see Bush get an even bigger bounce as people see just how crazed the far left is.

Of course, that's the difference between myself and these jackasses. I may want Bush to win, but not if it means blowing up my fellow citizens.

Left, the 4th protects you against "unreasonable" search and seizure. Examining those backpacks is in no way unreasonable. Hell, you can't walk into Yankee Stadium with a backpack; how is it "unreasonable" to search bags at a location that is a top bomb threat target?

TC-LeatherPenguin - you need a different example. Yankee Stadium is private property.

Didn't some guy from Philadelphia have something to say about this?

TCLP-- I don't know about Yankee Stadium, but many sports stadiums are considered private property, so the holders of the property have the right to make permission to enter contingent on a search. Kind of like getting on an airplane: getting on implies consent. If you don't want to be searched, walk.

Searching people without PC, on a public street, is a much bigger deal.

People have been trying to inject explosives into politics for 400 years. Things haven't changed so much of late as to completely negate the Fourth.

Yankee Stadium is owned by the City of New York. Steinbrenner rents it. The city put the rule in place after 9-11 because of the reasonable conclusion that blowing up a chunk of such a landmark would be one hell of a coup for someone from the bin-Laden brigade.

Pretty sure airports are public places and they search everything, including your person.

Next.

TC-LeatherPenguin - you're right; I stand corrected. Still, it isn't considered public property in the sense that anyone can make use of it freely. Public sidewalks are a much different kettle of fish, and authorities should have a reasonable suspicion of wrongdoing before being allowed to infringe upon one's privacy.

Airports (and airplanes) are subject to Federal safety regulations, and you can always choose not to fly. Choosing not to travel public sidewalks (or roads) is not an option for the vast majority of the population.

Next.

"You know, the cops in Cuba can search anything anytime. Maybe y'all should move there."

The Left criticizing Cuba....did I take the wrong pill?

The Left criticizing Cuba

The Left criticizing a totalitarian dictatorship.

As regards the search question at stadiums and courthouses, I've done a little reading and I gather that the rulings indicate that freedom from search is based on a reasonable expectation of privacy-- which one doesn't have in an airport or a courthouse. There is actually quite a range of decisions on whether or not one has it in a stadium.

So I guess I would argue that one has a reasonable expectation of privacy in one's person on a street or sidewalk, protest or no protest.

Funny, you don't have to go to MSG either. Time's Square during New Year's eve, public streets -- everyone is searched.

Next.

Yep, everyone is searched upon entering a cordoned-off area, not on a freely-travelled public street.

You may not unreasonably obstruct my liberties. Feel free to obstruct your own.

Next.

Lefty, the whole notion of a protest occurring around MSG removes the expectation of privacy the average person walking down any old street could expect. As Faith points out, if you want to walk past Times Square on New Year's Eve, you are going to have your bags checked, even if you are just passing through and a blockor two away from the center of action. The event itself makes the situation unique. Same goes for the streets surrounding MSG. The fact that the convention is occurring means it's not gonna be a normal week in midtown. This ruling by the judge isn't some blow weilded in protecting the 4th Amendment; besides the bag searches he also limited the number of streets that could be closed around the Garden and the use of metal barricades for crowd control. He's basically telling the cops "The protesters can do whatever they want, go wherever they want, and you can't do anything to anybody unless a particular somebody does something."

It's a recipe for disaster.

No, Mike. On New Year's Eve they start searching bags down in the thirties and up in the fifties, and four avenues (east to west) away from Party Central. If you can hear the crowd, your bag's getting checked, even if you're just coming out of a subway station three blocks away and heading for work.

The cordoned off area is a lock-down zone: once you're in, you're in. No wandering about. If you decide you want to go, say, to the bathroom? You're gone, period. PD escorts you out of the cordoned area and you have to go through the whole process again if you want to return.

And, not for nuthin', but someone blew a pipebomb in a Times Square subway station last night. So the idea of these protesters complaining about letting someone check their bags really seems frickin' ridiculous.

OK, Mike, it's a cordoned off area, OF PUBLIC STREETS. No different than the area around MSG would be during the RNC.

Thanks for proving my point.

Mike, Left

How about you help out keeping the RNC convention safe by offering up yourselves and any of your "I know my rights! Screw yours!" crowd and offer to be human shields between the "protesters" and the attendees. I'm sure the nobless oblige of such a gesture will touch the soul of any McVeigh or Muhammad who might be packing a car or backpack with explosives.

I mean, look at how actual members of ISM/UN/ICJ have changed the hearts Palestinian terrorist to desist from suicide bombings in Israel by standing in honor guard on school buses, shopping malls, temples, etc.

I don't know why you're worried. We're safer now. I know because der Leader told me so.

Maybe the Daily News should spend less time grousing about "stupid" judges and "gunpowder dousing" anarchists and more time looking at sad police officers in need of psychiatric care.

Clearly the judge is right--protesters shouldn't be searched without a specific threat to justify it. So, if the authorities receive a number of menacing phone calls from persons claiming to represent the Unbathed Brethren of the Earth, or Vegetarians for Zero Human Population, threatening to detonate a bomb in a large container in and around Madison Square Garden, I'm sure the authorities would act accordingly and begin random searches with the happy knowledge that they were acting in accordance with the wishes of that wonderful, wonderful judge. Oh, and if the bad people making those phone calls were never apprehended or otherwise identified--I'm sure the authorities would get over it, in light of their successful defense of both the US Constitution and the lives of its leaders.

[closed-captioned for the sarcasm-impaired]

Darpa, you should remember two words before you pass judgement on the officer:
Richard Jewel.
Remember him? He had his life shredded when the Atlanta Olympics bombing investigation offered him up as "a person of interest." He ended up cleared and more than a few media companies had to cut checks for wrecking his life.

And if it turns out this troubled transit cop did plant the Times Square bomb, it shows how one lone whacko--for whatever reason the voices in his head tell him to do it--can wreak havoc, and so reinforces the need for tight security around the convention.

As much it annoys me to side with the lefties here on this, filtering judicial decisions through tabloid newspapers is rarely going to reflect what they actually say. My understanding of this ruling is that it had to do entirely with random, suspicionless searches, not with any search based on "reasonable suspicion," which is a far lower evidentiary standard than probable cause, requiring only that the suspicion be based on some articulable reason.

Dave, security checks in that area are reasonable by any standard I know of, considering what happened one mile south less than three years ago, and the threats of attacks that have already been made.

Of course, NYC could have just done what Boston is doing.

Well, I guess the terrorists won with you people, eh?

[sarcasm, in case you didn't know.]

Faith, Darleen, TC, get a grip. If you're that willing to give up your rights for safety's sake, 'ole Ben Franklin would like to have a few words with you.