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Anarchy in NYC

I've been compiling a list of people and/or groups who are planning events meant to disrupt the RNC convention. So far, they're a benign bunch who want to ring bells and shout NO! in unison. But not this bunch of anarchists: bq. Internet-using anarchists are telling would-be troublemakers to decoy specially trained Labrador retrievers with gunpowder or ammonium nitrate-laced tablets in a bid to halt trains or even spur the evacuation of Madison Square Garden. The peace-loving protesters think that endangering the public is the best way to get their point across? Well, I shouldn't be surprised. After all, they thrive on self-centeredness. Everything is about them. As long as their goals are fulfilled and their sense of self-satisfaction is bloated yet again, it doesn't matter how many people are inconvenienced along the way. bq. The dog decoy ploy is the among most insidious in the fringe groups' bag of tricks - which includes throwing marbles under the hooves of police horses and using slingshots to pelt the animals. So, animal cruelty is ok as long as it's for a good cause? Their arrogance knows no bounds. bq. "They're trying to use up our resources with false alarms. ... The sensitive dogs would become burned out with too many alerts," said a police source. With all the alerts we've received in the past few days, with the knowledge that al Qaeda is still gunning for us and has the election season in mind for something, these idiots would sabotage the efforts of the police to keep this city safe just for...for what? To evacuate the convention? What will that prove? What message does that send? It's not like it's going to stop the official nomination from happening. Oh, I see. They're like kids pulling a fire alarm during school. Lots of giggles, a notch in the belt, ride the wave of ego-boosting backslaps for a few days. Except this isn't some school monitor they're messing with. This is a police department that's trying their best to keep a city that's already faced two terrorist attacks safe from harm. bq. After being alerted to the gunpowder posting, investigators uncovered Internet mentions of dispersing traces of ammonium nitrate on the trains.
Ammonium nitrate is one of the most common farm fertilizers in the world. The dogs are trained to detect the fertilizer because it has been used in major bombings, from the 1993 World Trade Center attack to Oklahoma City to Bali, Indonesia. They call themselves activists? I thought activists did things that were constructive. Look at the difference you're making! Panic in the streets of New York! Yea, that's going to change the world. But I don't expect that they will ever understand anything except their own wants, needs and goals. Damn the safety of the citizens, full speed ahead. Pacifists these days. The Dude: And, you know, he's got emotional problems, man. Walter Sobchak: You mean... beyond pacifism? Update: I apologize for confusing anarchists with other protesters. The other protesters will not be doing anything at all to disrupt the lives of New Yorkers, disrupt traffic, disrupt the convention or give extra work to the NYPD. Only the anarchists - who are not peace loving people, I'll admit to that - will be engaging in any kind of organized disobedience that will inconvenience the people and the police. So sorry about that. Anarchists are not peaceniks. Got it.

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Comments

I don't mean to be sarcastic (heavens no, not me!), but am I the only one that would like to slap the stuffing out of these people?

I wonder: would a little vigilanteeism (is that a word) be a good response?

Discuss.

Wannabes or weres reliving their thin great unwashed glory before they apply for Social Security.

Ship the "anarchists" off to Israel to act as bomb sniffing humans. That oughta take care of the problem pretty quickly.

It might be fun to consider the list of crimes that these people could be charged with (if they actually do what they are talking about) and the total length of prison sentences that could result.

These people need to be punished to the fullest extent of the law, and then they need to be publicly flogged and put in stocks in Times Square. It's the only way they'll ever stop.

It worked for their comrades against the tanks invading Stalingrad. Why wouldn't little Laika want to make his small sacrifice for the Motherland?

General Zhukov would be so proud.

This is the stupidest thing I've ever heard, which probably means it's real. Isn't the point of protest to actually get some positive attention?

But hey, it worked against Hitler, so...

Nitwits.

Why am I hoping that Rall and Moore get nabbed with a bag of marbles, and treated to some Riker's hospitality?

Whew. Thanks Michele. This post really turned me around; I thought all those gags with gunpowder and other bomb ingredients were funny and cool. But you set me straight. You rock Michele!

Or, alternatively, let's talk about how easy it would be to catch anyone who tried something like this if law enforcement agencies were properly motivated to do so which, obviously, they will be. After the fact, it's true. But I fully expect anyone convicted of this kind of thing to do hard time over it, so publicizing how easy it will be to track them down might actually convince them not to do it.

How easy would it be to track them down?
Pretty easy. Expensive, but easy.

Security cameras: ubiquitous.
Fingerprint technology: much more advanced than most people realize.
Odds of leaving DNA behind in a powder material like gunpowder: high.
Odds of having incriminating residue on your person after dropping the decoy: high.
Tracking and cross-referencing vectors for the purchase of gunpowder and/or bullets: abundant (credit cards, checks, brand-specific mixes, lot numbers, etc.).
And let's not forget, there will be sniffer dogs all over the place, so if you've got a little gunpowder residue in your pocket, this whole thing might backfire.
I could go on, but you get the idea.

No pun intended.

Didn't I see Moore buying marbles in Animal House? Haven't seen it in a while, so I might've forgotten.

David Foster: It might be fun to consider the list of crimes that these people could be charged with (if they actually do what they are talking about) and the total length of prison sentences that could result.

Exactly. These clowns are an embarassment to the left. I don't think it's illegal to go to a shooting range and get yourself smelling like gunpowder, but if they get caught with ammonium nitrate in NYC they're in a world of trouble.

I'm pretty sure it's just talk, but I wish they'd shut the hell up.

Frickin' diabolical geniuses, they are. Marbles under horses hooves was from Animal House, for godsakes!

Marbles under horses hooves was from Animal House, for godsakes!

I think all the marble victims were humans in Animal House.

They did the marble trick in Sydney in 2002 (I believe). A police horse went down, but it and its rider were OK. For some reason I was reading a Sydney Indymedia page the other day. They were wringing their hands about the "provocative" actions of the police which "forced" the protesters to retaliate with marbles. (That is, the use of mounted police was in itself provocative. That's what they claimed at the time, too.)

This article is bullshit. First, it doesn't even name or list the website that this supposed "information" was on. It is just "there." I'm an anarchist, and am familiar with most of the activist sites and haven't seen this discussion anywhere. And if it does exist, the Daily News could let people know where it is. But they don't.

Secondly, all of the information in this article was gained from the Chief of Police at a news conference. Where's the "journalism" in that?? Better yet, where's the so-called "liberal media bias" or even balance?? Where is the protester or even the liberal response?? Answer: not there.

Y'all complain about the Democratic Underground and Indymedia, but I've seen more balanced and well researched journalism on both of those places.

This would all be so much worse than the right wing fanatics who have bombed abortion clinics and killed people, should it actually happen. But wait, they were the fringe. And these individuals represent all of the lefties.

A couple of things:

1. Calling anarchists part of the left is to misunderstand the entire point. They aren't on the spectrum. They don't believe in organized gov't.

2. Blaming anarchists for doing something awful is such an old trick in history that I have a really hard time believing this article is not some piece of disinformation.

Then again, I'm paranoid, so YMMV.

But on second thought, this sounds like something from a third-rate pulp fiction:

So in addition to guarding against the most vile, organized and destructive of terrorists, Kelly and company have to combat a shadowy, loose-knit band of traveling troublemakers who spread their guides to disruption over the Internet.

First, anyone who does this can have their net history monitored, and if you joined in on one of these discussions then bammo, that's a conspiracy charge.

Second, no that was not Michael Moore in Animal House. It was Steven Furst, aka Flounder, aka Vir in Babylon 5.

It won't take too many of these yahoos to make the NYPD Very short-tempered.

But as far as these clowns not being part of the left goes, I'd buy that if they were also planning the same in Boston. From what I saw, they aren't.

One thing these "protesters" are not taking into account is the current mood of the NYPD. They are seriously pissed off about their contract situation. They've been warring with the FD, and generally are a group you do not want to piss off right now. Add the stress they will be under come convention time worrying about real terrorists, I got a feeling busting heads will reaction 1 if they catch some clown with marbles or ammonium nitrate. And when the numbnut howls "police brutality" NYC will reply "Eat me, asshole."

"And when the numbnut howls "police brutality" NYC will reply "Eat me, asshole."

We can only hope.

Watch for the protesters to cause the chaos then cry police brutality.

This article is bullshit. First, it doesn't even name or list the website that this supposed "information" was on. It is just "there."

Here's a comment from Portland Indymedia from poster "stuff the filth"

"As someone mentioned police horses are just there to intimidate. Doesn't matter what country you come from they are all the same."

"In the country I come from a useful tactic against police horses was marbles. Yes, an old timer told me about this twenty five years ago. What they did in the 1920's was to throw a handful of marbles under the horses. The horses cant walk over them and charge into the crowd to club people.
Well, at least horse shit is good for the garden. The shit you get from the cops is good for nothing."
...

It took 2 seconds on google to find that. When they’re not making anti-Semitic references and celebrating the murder of innocent policemen by anti corporate activists, Indymedia readers love to talk about "direct action"

Speaking of Portland Indymedia, they’ve gotten into a lot of trouble lately for threatening legitimate journalists and censorship. Google refused to list them as a news source. They are not in any way legitimate.

It’s true, they aren’t really anarchists. They’re traditional, authoritarian, window-smashing, bigoted, jackbooted thugs. We’ve seen this sort of thing before.

They don't believe in organized gov't.

Sorry, that made me giggle. "Anarchists" do believe in unorganized government -- Mob rule. Oh, they dress it up and call it syndicalism.... but I digress

I hope NYPD has loads of extra paddy wagons on hand and they sweep up these idiots on a moments notice. No quarter given.

On the lighter, whackier side of "protest", you have the female flashers of Axis of Eve.

I'd rather they have a fleet of ambulances at the ready, and plenty of space at Bellevue ... especially in the pysch and lockdown wards.
Some buses ready to make the Riker's run would be nice, too.

Darleen--

right, i understand they believe in self-imposed government, but that's hardly organized, and not part of the right/left political spectrum

anarchist != leftist

This article is bullshit. First, it doesn't even name or list the website that this supposed "information" was on.
Most likely this is because they want to avoid giving them extra exposure, and figure if people want to investigate further they'll use this little thing called 'google', that is, if they're smart enough to do that.

Anyway, there've been some links in the comments, and here's another one chock full of moonbatticus anarchist info. Sample information: "How to take over a building." Lots of fun, these anarchists. I'm afraid Michele's right; it's going to get worse before it gets better.

Ummm...since when have anarchists been "peaceful", Michele? If I had a dollar for every time I saw anarchists and aging hippies in our community get into rows over methodology, I could have bought half of Eugene's VW bus fleet.

I would be more than willing to give you cases in point if you were interested...

Um, Michele? Since when does anyone think of Anarchists as "peace-loving"? They really don't represent the views of peaceniks; they are, oftentimes, violent revolutionaries who philosophy of destructiveness is almost as anathema to pacifist types as that of the warmongering right. You've talked about not wanting to contribute to the level of uncivility. Well, why not start by being a little more honest about the views of the mainstream left, and not trying to paint anyone who doesn't like Republicans as an enemy of civilization?

If I had a dollar for every time I saw anarchists and aging hippies in our community get into rows over methodology, I could have bought half of Eugene's VW bus fleet.
Jo, that brought up a funny memory from my times working in the health food co-op in Tempe Arizona (college years.) Can't remember what these two peace, love and happiness hippies began arguing about, but imagine two unwashed, bedraggled albeit 'enlightened' men going at it, the argument soon devolving into repetitious:
"You're projecting, man!"
"No you're projecting!!"

Just struck me as funny, is all. Even back then.

Willow- You worked at Gentle Strength?

Don't these numb-nut anarchists realise that organisation of anarchy isn't anarchy?

Fingerprint technology: much more advanced than most people realize.
Odds of leaving DNA behind in a powder material like gunpowder: high.

Me thinks that "The Left" hasn't actually ever seen gun powder.

Hint: it's NOT a powder.

Britton,

Ya know, I wondered if someone would ask that, ya know: small world, etc.

Yes. Gentle Strength. Herb department. When were you there?

I still live in Phoenix, but haven't been to GS in years. I've spent LOTS of time across the street at Eastside Records.

I think I bought some hummus at GS about 5 years ago, to be spread on a triscuit and topped with tuna. Mmmm :)

yep, they do have good nosh, even if the ideological environment is a bit sketchy...

:)

Me thinks that "The Left" hasn't actually ever seen gun powder.

Hint: it's NOT a powder.

\Gun"pow`der\, n. (Chem.) A black, granular, explosive substance, consisting of an intimate mechanical mixture of niter, charcoal, and sulphur. It is used in gunnery and blasting.

The Left has taken bullets apart and used black powder to make tennis ball bombs, you stupid fuck. If your quip is about the difference between "powder" and "granular substance", or between "powerd" and "flakes", I would suggest you run-- don't walk, run-- right out and get yourself a life.

"Y'all complain about the Democratic Underground and Indymedia, but I've seen more balanced and well researched journalism on both of those places."

This may be the funniest thing I have read on the internet.

Andrew

Anarchists do not believe in private property ("property is theft"). They do not believe in money.

That puts them squarely on the left. Maybe to the left of Marx and Stalin, but their totalitarianism, albeit on a small scale, is still totalitarianism.

As Mary indicates, Portland is a hotbed (comparatively) of anarchist loser scum. (I believe during the Reagan era it was referred to as the Beirut of the West Coast or something similar.)

Protesters around here have used the marble trick more than a few times. Of course, contra the poster in Mary's quote, the Portland Police don't charge crowds on horseback and beat people - they're not cossacks or hussars.

But, hey. It's okay if a horse breaks a leg, as long as we spread the message about Bushitler, right?

Savages. If their effort is ever successful and a state of anarchy exists, I'll be sure to aim center-of-mass.

The Left,

One of the classic hallmarks of a "stupid fuck" is someone who refers to himself in the third person.

Enjoy your angry, miserable life.

"But, hey. It's okay if a horse breaks a leg, as long as we spread the message about Bushitler, right?"

It's the same rationale as soldiers dying being a good thing. They're serving "evil"

The Left,
Another classic hallmark of a "stupid fuck" is someone who uses a spoof e-mail address when getting all uppity.
No, wait. That's a classic hallmark of a "troll."
So you're a "stupid fuck troll."

Philadelphia has already shown how to keep the peace during a GOP Convention. You arrest the protestors pre-emptively. You give them long sentences and heavy fines. After the convention, you admit perhaps you were too hasty in arresting them, and in sentencing and fining them. Then you let them go.

That all said, [knock on wood] I doubt the trouble will be in NY. Any trouble will be at the Democratic Party convention in Boston.

Another classic hallmark of a "stupid fuck" is someone who uses a spoof e-mail address when getting all uppity.

Yeah, 'cause you were totally going to send me a very firmly-worded letter about my conduct, right Mister Leather Penguin?

I apologize for confusing anarchists with other protesters. The other protesters will not be doing anything at all to disrupt the lives of New Yorkers, disrupt traffic, disrupt the convention or give extra work to the NYPD. Only the anarchists - who are not peace loving people, I'll admit to that - will be engaging in any kind of organized disobedience that will inconvenience the people and the police.

So sorry about that.

Anarchists are not peaceniks. Got it.

Oh, come off it, Michele. The passive-aggressive sarcasm-laced apology routine does not become you. I, and the others who made this point, only wanted to make clear that a distinction exists even between the mainstream anti-war left and the really, really extreme far left. You might better understand the distinction by comparing Jerry Falwell to Michael Savage or the Rev. Phelps. From the left, that distinction appears almost insignificant, but I imagine to you it seems as clear as day. Relativity. Perspective. Objects in mirror are closer than they appear. That's all I'm saying.

The Left: The Left has taken bullets apart and used black powder to make tennis ball bombs, you stupid fuck.

Maybe they did in the 1800s. Nobody uses black powder anymore, except antique gun enthusiasts. They use double base powder, made with nitroglycerin and nitrocellulose. And Dave's right, it's not a powder.

Match heads make a better tennis ball bomb,anyway.

Have fun losing fingers, and bringing a tennis ball to a gunfight, pinkos :)

Mike

Last I looked the "mainstream 'anti-war'" movement was organized and financed by ANSWER and NION. They are as about left you can get before you get into the anarchist camp. ANSWER is a Stalinist group for heaven's sake. The 'anti-war' movement is rife with Anti-Americanism and Judenhass.

It will be a good thing there will be a nice contingent of private citizens there to monitor the "protests" and show us what the "mainstream" media won't (they'll sugar coat the crown so it appears "mainstream" america is pissed at the GOP)

err... crown = crowd

PIMF PIMF PIMF

(This thread is probably dead, but what the heck.)

The "mainstream" media will sugar-coat the crowd so it appears "mainstream" America is pissed at the GOP?

Gee, Darleen, you've seen the polls. A sizable portion of mainstream America IS pissed at the GOP--and quite a few sensible Republicans, truth to tell. Half the country doesn't support Bush, and they're not all Stalinists, anti-Semites, and America-haters.

I don't speak for the people who'll protest in NYC, and they don't necessarily speak for me, but the idea that anyone who doesn't vote for Bush is on some sick, radical fringe is politically bankrupt, and will be proven so in November. Regardless of the bad examples Michele finds to freak out about, most of us are just regular folks like you.

Meanwhile, Darleen, climb down off the table--the anarcho-Stalinist stormtroopers aren't coming to get you.

Maybe they did in the 1800s. Nobody uses black powder anymore, except antique gun enthusiasts. They use double base powder, made with nitroglycerin and nitrocellulose. And Dave's right, it's not a powder.

Did you notice that little "and"? That was meant to signify a different activity. Taking bullets apart was its own kind of fun. The bombs were made out of different stuff; when I was a kid, a friend of mine's dad was a black powder hunting enthusiast (god knows why). My friend used to steal the black powder so we could make tennis ball bombs.

And yes, I know they've been using smokeless powder since about 1900. And hey, guess what-- smokeless powder? Not, strictly speaking, the same thing as gunpowder.

What the fuck is it with you people? You need me to draw you a fucking diagram? Take a photograph of a capped bullet with the powdery crap spilling out of it? It's not a powder? What term would you prefer? Kernel? Christ all mighty, don't fucking trip over yourselves trying to prove how smart you are.