Winer Whines About Spirit of America
Leave it to Dave Winer to take a dump all over Spirit of America.
bq. Jeff Jarvis is promoting a site called Spirit of America. I don't know much about it, and I don't sign up for political causes I don't know much about.
Translate: I know nothing about the thing I am about to bash. But it looks vaguely pro-war, so I'll just go ahead and bash first, ask later.
bq. I see other bloggers singing glowing praises for it, but sheez, how could they know? I don't think bloggerdom should be used like TV talk shows.
Blogs are a great place to get grass roots causes going. If Winer of all people does not see that, then his vision has been clouded by his anti-Bush colored glasses.
bq. I said I don't stand up for causes I don't understand. I guess that's a polite way of saying that I don't even like what they're doing.
Gee. Talk about confusing. He just said he didn't know what they were doing. I don't know much about it, to be exact. So he doesn't know much about it, doesn't understand it, yet knows enough to say that he doesn't like it. Must be the the smiling Iraqi girl on the front of the site. Or the Afghan guy playing baseball. How dare these people smile in the face of U.S oppression??
bq. I think we need to get over ourselves in America, our time is just about over, unless we stop guzzling so much gas and start electing leaders with brains, morals and courage.
Get over ourselves? I have to laugh at this. The left is always there, reaching out a helping hand to downtrodden nations, taking down sweatshops, feeding the poor of other lands, building housing in third world countries. Now a bunch of right-leaning bloggers publicize a group that is going the extra mile for the people of Iraq and Afghanistan and we have to get over ourselves? What a bunch of partisan crap.
bq. I think the best thing the US can do for the world is get our own house in order and stop trying to fix the world, something we're exceedingly bad at.
The Spirit of America team is not trying to fix the world. They are just trying to help give the Iraqi people some of the things we take for granted here in the good old U.S. of A., like textbooks and school supplies. But Dave doesn't want that. Dave Winer thinks that this is bad idea. How isolationist of you, Mr. Winer.
When I was a "liberal," I was constantly chastised by my fellow liberals for being isolationist. It was an insult of high order. But Dave here is suggesting that we just tell the Iraqi kids to piss off while we go take care of ourselves. An attitude like that would, once upon a year ago, get you beaten up in the liberal lunchroom. Now that the beneficiary of the good deeds done by Americans is Iraq, it's acceptable in liberal circles to negate those deeds as unworthy of approval from the anti-Bush lefties.
It's not that we need their approval to make this work, but it would be nice if for once people like Winer would drop their caustic anti-everything rhetoric and look at the end result:
* SoA Donates Tons of School Supplies, Medical Supplies and Frisbees to Marines for the Iraqi People
* Soldier Helps Kurdish Kids Make Music Again
* Marines Give Soccer Jerseys to Boys and Girls in Wassit Province
* Marines Provide Dental Kits to Families in Al Hillah, Iraq
* Toys for Iraqi Children
But you go right ahead and sneer at what they are trying to do. Just remember that there was a time when it was people like Winer who were doing these things and praise from their fellow lefties for it. Now it's people like Winer who are ignorantly dismissing such projects, foregoing the chance to put a smile on a kid's face in return for making sure his anti-war creds are safely in place.
Comments
Dave Whiner is a 'tard. He blats about "fix the world" yet here is a group that wants to fix part of it and suddenly it's "I don't like it very much"? The man is dain-bramaged.
(By the way, you need to blockquote the "get over ourselved" paragraph -- I only recognized it as his by his sub-third-grade "See Jack throw the ball to Spot" writing style.)
Posted by: Andrea Harris | June 1, 2004 03:16 PM
I'm sorely tempted to write a right-wing critique of SoA but that would be a pretty crappy note to come back on. Anyway, nuts to Winer.
Posted by: Allah | June 1, 2004 03:20 PM
Is this chapter 314 or 315 in Winer's "All Blogs Must Fit My Definition And Do What I Say For I Am Dave Winer" manifesto?
Maybe he should spend some time making sure weblogs.com actually works most of the time (actually, I'm not sure he's involved with that anymore. Doesn't change that it's crap).
Posted by: fad | June 1, 2004 03:22 PM
Dave Winer is the biggest online wanker I've ever seen. He gets in pissing contests SO frequently, and pretends to think he's fucking God.
It really gets my goat.
Posted by: Tom Bridge | June 1, 2004 03:31 PM
Winer sure does aim to live up to his name.
Posted by: Val Prieto | June 1, 2004 03:35 PM
When was the last time anyone cared what Dave Winer thought (Other than technical matters)?
Posted by: JFH | June 1, 2004 03:44 PM
It's a classic knee jerk reaction.
"I don't know what it is but war bloggers like it therefore it must be bad."
Posted by: Ryan | June 1, 2004 04:05 PM
Hmmm...further thoughts.
Mr. Winer does have a point that we should not forget domestic issues.
But has he ever promoted anything like the SOA in this country dealing the underprivledged?
Screaming about Bush doesn't count.
Posted by: Ryan | June 1, 2004 04:06 PM
This Whiner fellow seems to me like the type who posts scathingly negative reviews at Amazon before the book has even been released, much less read by the reviewer.
Michele's observation that "liberals" these days are heavily isolationist hits the proverbial nail on the head.
Posted by: centaur | June 1, 2004 04:14 PM
Mr. Winer demonstrates by his words that he is in no way a "liberal".
Liberals used to stand FOR something. Now the self-described liberals only stand against. Anything. Especially if it can be blamed on Bush.
Posted by: Ray | June 1, 2004 04:38 PM
Dave Winer: The guy Josh Norton wants to be when he grows up.
Posted by: ilyka | June 1, 2004 04:54 PM
I wanted to say something witty, but all I could come up with was "what an asshat."
Posted by: Swerdloff | June 1, 2004 04:58 PM
My favorite hunchback in history, Georg Christoph Lichtenburg, observed :
"It is a golden rule not to judge men by their opinions but rather what their opinions make of them"
Dave Winer = Wanker
Posted by: SarahW | June 1, 2004 06:23 PM
I clicked on the link to see the rest of his argument and was astonished that there wasn't any. What a fool.
Posted by: Crank | June 1, 2004 06:36 PM
Mr. Winer has apparently never read "Green Eggs & Ham."
Perhaps he has, and simply did not understand the moral.
btw... ALLAH IS BACK IN THE HOUSE?!?
Posted by: Britton | June 1, 2004 07:19 PM
I remember Winer most clearly - he was one of the blogs I started reading after 9/11. He was first advocating bombing Mecca:
scripting.com
but didn't take long (only around a month) before his liberal appeasement mode kicked back in:
scripting.com
and he donated money to the "Palestinian" red crescent.
Posted by: anotherKevin | June 1, 2004 07:21 PM
this is the man who thought Dean could change the world.
I recall when the liberal radio network first made its debut several months ago that the way liberals were arguing sounded very isolationist, almost like people before World War II. Odd how the shoe changes feet.
As for his comment about remaking the world, yes, we do seem to have done it pretty poorly. AFter all, look at what happened to the French.
Posted by: bryan | June 1, 2004 08:11 PM
Hard to take any argument seriously that begins with "I am ignorant".
Posted by: Dave in Texas | June 1, 2004 08:39 PM
Just to be clear here -- not all liberals are against what SoA is doing? right? Just Dave Winer. It seems like you don't want to be alienating people and instead should be bringing them together. I can't see why being liberal or conservative should matter as to why you might support or denigrate SoA. for instance, Noah Max gave it props today in DefenseTech and I don't think he's a conservative (see http://www.defensetech.org/archives/000939.html).
I think you're doing great stuff with SoA so don't listen to the haters.
Jim
Posted by: Jim H | June 1, 2004 09:10 PM
Winer is regarded by the real veterans of the digital age as a johnny-come-lately lightweight geek. He persists in using terms like "bloggerdom," when there is a much more widely accepted term, solely because he suffers from a terminal "not invented here" syndrome. He trades on his connection with blogs, but forgets that people like Richard Bennett were blogging when Winer was still in high school.
Winer is the archetypical wannabe. His fifteen minutes of fame occurred long, long ago, and ended when everybody discovered he was a dog.
His entire career since has been a failing effort to conjure up another fifteen minutes.
Posted by: Bill Quick | June 1, 2004 09:16 PM
FOUND: WINER'S FIRST DRAFT
Jeff Jarvis is promoting a site called Spirit of America. I don't know much about it, and I don't sign up for political causes I don't know much about. And believe me, when it comes to not knowing much about something, I could tell you a thing or two.
I see other bloggers singing glowing praises for it, but sheez-o-rama, how could they know? I mean, they're just all blahby-blah-blah as if they have some sort of information about this thing, and so forth, and it just feels to me that they probably wouldn't have that kind of info, and so I'm just kind of skeptically curious just "how" they would know? And, that's what's really bugging, to me.
I don't think bloggerdom should be used like TV talk shows or panel programs, or information, and things of that nature. I said I don't stand up for causes I don't understand. I guess that's a polite way of saying that I don't stand up for any causes, because, I don't really like this whole "cause" thing and son't like the idea of understanding causes, or what causes them.
C'mon, "America," get over ourselves! We are SO fifteen minutes ago, unless we stop guzzling so much gas and start electing cool leaders with brains and morals and courage, and also start courageously guzzling mind drinks like Red Bull.
I feel I have to say I like Jeff, I really do, but by that I obviously don't mean that I feel that have to, like SAY YOU LIKE JEFF OR ELSE! or something like that, I simply mean that he's cool, so just get over yourself. He's come through for me twice at BloggerCon, and I appreciate that, and you can tank that to the bank, and whatever. But his politics are 180 degrees opposite mine, even on tactics, so that pretty much tells you the whole thing of where he's coming from. I think the best thing the US can do for the world is just grow up, move out of the house, or at least get our own house in order, and mow our own lawn, for God's sake, and stop trying to fix the world, and stop griping about how they should rewire their garages to 220, and so on, which is something we're exceedingly bad at. And by "we," I mean you, obviously.
Posted by: iowahawk | June 1, 2004 09:40 PM
Tools for Iraqi tradesman, supplies for schools and orphanages.....
How dare we! Regular folks trying to help out those in need in a far-away place is bad. People putting their money where there mouths are - the nerve!
The kind, compassionate left.
Never believe anything they say. Ever. Again.
Ever.
WG, LI
Posted by: WG | June 2, 2004 09:15 AM
Thanks for ripping him apart. I wanted to, but getting in a pissing match with winer is like banging your head against the wall. I've never seen anyone who can remain so willfully ignorant about a subject he doesn't understand.
Case in point, back in April he didn't understand SMS and didn't think it existed in the US.
And this guy is a technology fellow at Harvard? Give me a break. Harvard got ripped off.
http://www.chinpokomon.com/archives/001014.html
Posted by: Kevin | June 2, 2004 12:12 PM
Sad to say, but I have. Spend a day browsing in the graphics communities, Kevin, and you'll see more of them in any single forum than you can shake an installation of Blogger at. ;]
Posted by: Ironbear | June 5, 2004 08:41 AM