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Presidential Material?

Apparently, when news of Bush's bike spill made its way to Kerry yesterday, he said to reporters "Did the training wheels fall off?" You want this petty, childish man as your president? It's one thing for the idiots over at DU to be making jokes like that, but a man who is campaigning to run this country (and championing his own integrity and honor) should really have better sense than to say something like that. (Drudge has the story, but no link yet. Here's a screen cap) And the fact that reporters are debating whether to treat it as on or off the record speaks volumes. You can bet your ass that if Bush said something like that, it would be making headlines at WaPo. As far as insults go, I've seen a lot worse. But this just makes Kerry look stupid and small. Update: Let's clarify one thing here: Kerry said this to reporters. In my book that makes him come of a sneering, little man. The fact that no one is actually reporting it is also a big issue. And to those who think the whole story of Bush falling off of his bike is some kind of White House coverup, especially to those who are going so far as to look up rainfall totals in Texas for the last week, I say this: Holy hell, people. How much Kool-Aid did you drink??


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"See that guy over there? Major league asshole" sure wasn't treated as an 'off the record' comment.

Remember when the President called a reporter "an asshole" while he thought he couldn't be heard?

I don't remember anyone saying then that they weren't sure whether or not it should be aired.

They didn't even bat an eye...

And Bush hasn't looked stupid and small for the past three-and-a-half years? Look, it's not as if Kerry or Bush DESERVE to be President, but Bush's lies and deceptions have cost 800 young Americans their lives. Remember WMDs?

Please don't tell me you're supporting Bush because of his "integrity and honor"....

Time to look at the realities of life in Bushworld, y'all....

Oh Great. Someone who thinks he deserves credibility quoting Maureen Dowd.

That'll get ya real far.

The point of this post is that I was really put off by the childishness of his stupid joke. I'm not saying either side doesn't throw barbs; I just found this one to be a bit revealing - it's total DU attitude, and a neener neener pot shot.

Jack. Come over to my site so I can ban you. Because that's what it's come to. Can't even bring yourself to criticize Kerry's childishness without the obligatory "but they did it too! Remember Bill Clinton's twisted pecker..?"

Conversation is futile at this point. Fuck off, troll.

But in a way, it's wonderful to see more evidence that Democrats are so clueless about the object of their hatred. (And after decades of slander against Republicans, to see so many Democrats proudly raising the "Democrats: the Party of Raw, Unreasoning Hatred" banner.)

In talking with leftists, I've often remarked that their "Bush is an idiot" line of attack is worse than false - it's ineffective. I've even said "OK, for the sake of argument, let's assume you're correct. Bush is an idiot. He can't read. Forrest Gump would outscore him on an IQ test. Whatever. But the question is, in terms of bottom-line political effectiveness, has asserting this gotten you anywhere?"

It hasn't, and in fact has backfired on them on countless occasions. As a Republican, I'm delighted to see Democrats eschew rational arguments that might have some effect in favor of petty, insults that do harm to their own cause.

And they call us stupid?

Jeff hit on my main point of contention when dealing with the left these days. They'll come here and spout off their talking points without ever once addressing the issue I wrote about.

If you want to comment on this site, that's great. I even welcome your disagreement. But do not use my site as a place to drop your talking points if they don't address the issue I put forth. Otherwise, you're just using my bandwidth to make your non sequiter statments and that's just rude, man.

Jeff, you can ban me or do whatever you choose for whatever reason you choose. I'm certainly not condoning Kerry's comment, but he isn't the one who lied his way into a war that has killed 800 Americans is it.

Y'all can toss whatever insults you choose. If this is what passes for reasoned political discourse, we're in worse shape than I feared.

BTW, Jeff- anyone who closes an argument with an epithet such as yours only exposes that argument as vacant and without merit. If that's the best you can do, you don't need to ban me. Why would I visit your site?

My purpose here is not to start a name-calling contest. I'd like to think that, as Americans, we can all tolerate different points of view. I'm beginning to wonder if this is no longer true.

I will admit that I detest the America George W. Bush has created. That hardly means I don't love my country. I just hate that being anti-Bush means being perceived as anti-American by those who think being open-minded is also anti-American.

BTW, you'll get no argument from me the DU is a bunch of WingNutz. Not even someone from the Progressive side of the spectrum such as myself could credibly claim them as a voice of reason.

Strange, does anyone know if GW blamed his bike spill (on the 16th miles of a 17 mile dirt run) on his "son of a bitch" secret service agent?

Now, who is the one with training wheels?

Jack, get help for the Bushiephobia.

he isn't the one who lied his way into a war

Good lord, Jack. That canard is just so yesterday.


I guess the passage of time really DOES erase the truth, eh, Darleen?

"BTW, Jeff- anyone who closes an argument with an epithet such as yours only exposes that argument as vacant and without merit."

Oh, so in addition to being King of All Truth™, I see you also hold yourself up as Final Word on All That Is Rhetorically Effective™. Well, have it your way, king. That open-mindedness thing is doing wonders for ya.

But, y'know, fuck off just the same.

"stupide et petit".

That said, it may have been a reference to Bush's statement earlier about Iraqi government having to take off training wheels and ride their bike alone. I no longer trust the press to get any quote correct.

Jeff, I make no claim to the Truth, whatever that may be. Too bad the same cannot be said for yourself. That having been said, and getting back to the point of Michele's post, neither man is "Presidential material". Nonetheless, given the lies, deception, and mediocrity of the past 3+ years, I've got to go with the man who at least displays a degree of intellectual agility.

Have a nice life, Jeff. Who's the troll now?

Yes, but does this reveal a personality flaw on Bush's part?

From Drudge to the blogs to the "liberal" media. The mighty wurlitzer plays on.

"Have a nice life, Jeff. Who's the troll now?"

You. Still. Fuck off.

Echoing htom, when I first read it on the Drudge Report, I thought it was a wry reference to the training wheels : Iraqi sovereignty analogy Bush used to pep up Congressional Republicans a few days before. Maybe I'm reading too much into it.

But come on, this is the test of Presidental timber? Forget the "asshole" comment (which actually increased Bush's stature in my eyes), what about "Please (whimpering, lips pursed in mock desperation)... don't kill me" a when referring to Karla Faye Tucker? Probably a little more germane, I dunno.

What I can't believe is that Kerry had the stones to say that when he himself took a header from his bike only about 2 weeks ago. Bush was riding on dirt, Kerry on pavement.

One thing that does strike me as odd about the Bush fall though--they said he was wearing a mouthguard? I wear a helmet and gloves (don't want pizza hands), but I've never even heard of wearing a mouthguard while riding.

Comments such as these from unguarded moments tend to be blown out of proportion. Given the negative campaign ads that the Bush campaign has been running, can anyone really blame Kerry for not having charitable feelings towards Bush?

As previous commenters have already pointed out, Bush has also had his share of "loose lips sink ships" moments. So what, exactly does all of this prove about each man? Nothing, except for what each of us chooses to read into it. While I understand and appreciate Michele's perception of Kerry's comments, that perceptions ignores Bush's verbal clusterf***ks.

Can we please talk about some REAL issues...and without the cheap, gratuitious insults?

I didn't know that I was under the obligation to reiterate past things Bush said when I write about what Kerry said. It's infuriating that anyone thinks that needs to be done.

Given the negative campaign ads that the Bush campaign has been running, can anyone really blame Kerry for not having charitable feelings towards Bush?

Ah, so it's Bush's fault that Kerry said that. Of course. Root causes and all.

No, Michele, all I'm saying is that the Bush campaign has exactly taken the high road. You'd think that an incumbent President would trumpet their accomplishments instead of running down their opponent. Of course, that would presume that an incumbent President actually HAS a record to run on, eh?

Precisely, Michele. Now let's get back the REAL issues. Like Jack and his pseudo-intellectual rationalizing fucking right the hell off.


Look up the word "canard." And while you're at it, look up the word "lie."

If GW "lied" about WMD in Iraq (and do please ignore the sarin), so did Billy Jeff, Hillary, Gore, Chirac, the UN, England, and just about every other country that signed on to 1441.

Oliver, I had to dig down through those links and it looks like the "personality flaw" is all pandagon's.

But, far be it from me to toss water on Kerry's nomination (which he will accept about a month after the Democrat Convention in Boston. As someone else suggested as a Kerry campaign sticker "I came, I saw, I dithered"). I think the Democrats deserve the junior Senator from MA.

Yesterday, following Bush's accident on his bike, the official statement was as follows;

"It's been raining a lot and the topsoil is loose," * the spokesman said. "You know this president. He likes to go all out. Suffice it to say he wasn't whistling show tunes."

Oh, really?????

I invite you all to go to www.weather.com, and type in the forecast for zip code 76638 (Crawford Texas). Click on "Yetsreday" and notice that they had zero rainfall yeasterday. Then check May 21. Then check May 20, May 19, May 18, May 17 and May 16.

Zero precipitation, zero rainfall for a week straight. It's also been in the 80s and 90s most of the week.

Now, you wanna try that again, White House?

So does any of this matter?

Not if you already know the Bush administration would just as soon tell a lie as the truth even when it doesn't matter.

With anyone else I'd be thinking, "Why would they lie about such a pointless detail?". And it's such a dumb thing to lie about. Who even feels the need to offer an excuse for falling off a bicycle!?!?

"It's been raining a lot and the topsoil is loose," the spokesman said.

Does that actually make you more likely to fall off a mountain bike? Is that an explanation? Had the rest of the 16 miles of the ride experienced different precipitation causing Bush to be suprised by this particular hill? Gee, I thought at first the president was simply riding a bike and fell off end-of-story, but now I realise it's all part of a liberal plot involving control of the weather.

  • In other news: ===*

Apparently Bush also lied about the existence of WMDs so he could start a criminal war that led to the deaths of tens of thousands.....


Somehow I fail to see how using Kerry's own words in a campaign ad is "negative."

Since when is Kerry's voting record in the Senate "off-limits"?

Oh! Because he "served in Vietnam"!!! Makes him sacrosanct, eh?

Jack, this was a post on a verbal faux pas by Kerry...why is it you think it demands the discussion of every single aspect of the Bush presidency? You have your own blog, I do believe. Start a topic then have the discussion. But I'm really failing to follow your logic here.

It's the classic lefty debating tactic - when all else fails, change the subject.

hey prof...have fun here
I live 45 minutes from Crawford. The dominant topsoil on slopes is called "caliche". It's got a lot of bentonite it, a clay which becomes slippery and ubstable when hydrated, and on north-facing slopes, will retain moisture for quite a long time. The lower slopes especially, due to drainage, stay wet long after the last rainfall. What we will need to ascertain is, azimuth, attitude, angle of approach, and velocity. A good topo map, plus affidavitsfrom witnesses, a study of bike tireology, and at least two independant medical reports on the injuries, will set the groundwork for a full investigation, with perhaps a congessional hearing if it turns out that he fell on a southern exposure slope, which, according to my charts, should have been less slippery than the president may or may not have indicated. Eternal vigilance is the price of freedom!..posted by Buddy
I don't know about Texas, I'm in So. Cal. But late season rain can play havoc on hiking trails long after the actual rain.

But, of course, let's investigate! Open some hearings so Kerrey, Ben-Veniste, et al can get somemore TV face time in pointless partisan pontification.

Using one's own words in a campaign ad is one thing. Twisting them into something completely out of context is quite another. And David, I believe it was Michele who changed the subject.

Hey, look, y'all; I don't expect you to change your minds. You're not going to change mine. I was at least hoping for a rational discussion...probably not the only time today I'll be disappointed. I can see my work here is done.

Or you could, y'know, answer my question.

Does that mean you're fucking off, Jack?

Darleen, prof has actually done us a favor by pointing out the silly crap that gets pasted as "lies! investigate!" by the left.

I live here, 40 miles south of Crawford. We are 10" ahead of normal rainfall for the year. 2 weeks ago I dumped 11" of water out of the rain gauge over the course of the week.

And you're dead on about the soil. It expands with the water, contracts and crumbles with dry heat.

but noooooo... It is a LIE! They are so addicted to lying they lie about trivial things like how rain affects dirt! LIARS!

God help me.

Christ on a fucking crutch, are we really debating the veracity of the amount of rainfall in Texas?

Kill me now.

So I take it Jack is another Dem who doesn't believe Iraq has anything to do with the War on Terror...

"Bush lied, the soil had dried!"

(Oh. And fuck off, Jack.)

The secret that the VastRightWingConspiracy doesn't want you to know - Bush actually ran his bike into a PLASTIC TURKEY!

Hmmm. I seem to remember the screams of a "Dukakis Moment" when Kerry did something similar on his snowboard. My, paybacks a bitch.

Oh, and Jack Cluth wants us to get back to the REAL issues. Sure Jack, how about Kerry's plan for the economy? His solution? Raise taxes! That always works.

(Actually, his real plan is to do nothing for a year then take credit for the economic upswing that the Bush admin created.)


I'm agog at the people who immediately looked into weather reports as a "gotcha" enterprise. I enjoy hiking around in my local mountains, but you know, after the fires last October and the late rains we've had, a lot of the public trails are closed due to unstable soil. Jaysus on a Pony, we've had a couple of deaths in the Lake Arrowhead region due to people trying to bike along closed roads... the edges of which are unstable due to the reasons I just cited.


LOL ... I'm going to steal that line. It perfectly illustrates the anti-Bush psychosis.

Is that many "paybacks", Hal? Or do you need to borrow one of these: ''''''''''''''''?


Please link to GW or any of the White House staff saying Kerry's bike spill was a "Dukasis moment."

Thank you.

I'm getting incredibly fed up with this anti-war leftist bullsh!t. You know what, Jack, if you want to ask whether the loss of 800 soldiers in Iraq was worth it I'll tell you. 800 lives to secure the future of 25 million is damn well worth it. 800 lives to prevent another Ba'athist mass grave being filled? Sacrificing 800 lives so that that canister of Sarin (you know, the WMDs you keep saying doesn't exist) doesn't end up in the New York subway? 800 lives to ensure we don't lose another 3,000 or more because we've let the terrorists spread across the face of the Earth like a metastizing tumor? Yes, it's worth it.

Those 800 people signed up to be in the military full well knowing that they may be called to give their lives to protect this country and make a better world. Every troll who takes a huge piss on their memory by slandering the mission they died to see through is merely illustrating the fact that moral nihilism and democracy don't mix.

A lot more have died for a lot less (see the Slapton Sands training distaster in World War II).

As for Kerry, the terms "patrician asshole" come to mind almost immediately. We're talking about someone who has grown up in a culture of privilege for years - even the Democrats can sense the arrogance oozing from every pore. Just look at the poll numbers, Kerry's numbers on likability and trustworthiness are in the toilet.

The debates are going to be very interesting - put Bush's touch with the common man against Kerry's patrician arrogance and we're going to see the biggest post-debate downshift in recent history. Remember how Gore's numbers sank during the debates? It's going to be worse with Kerry.

Then again, that's what you get when you have a party that is driven by the simpleminded hatred that chose a candidate solely based on the perception that he's slightly less crazy than the others. Shoulda picked Lieberman, then you would have walked away in a landslide...


Shoulda picked Lieberman, then you would have walked away in a landslide...

I am coming to the conclusion that Lieberman is the only moral Democrat left. As bland as he is, and despite some egregious "me, too!" instances, he really does get it when it comes to what is at stake for the future of America.

Late to the party...

I was just going to post that precipitation in the area for the month of May is slightly above "normal" - 3.86" in the first three weeks vs. 3.20" for the month. That's two inches above last years levels.

Furthermore, there was no rain at all in April. By anyone's definition, it has been raining in Crawford, and raining quite a bit the first two weeks of May.

The drier whether in the last several days would make the rain-swollen soil dry out and become less stable...

I'm stealing both of Jeff G's lines. All of them really. Whenever I can fit one in.

Especially the "Jaysus on a pony" one.

Darleen put Jaysus on a pony, Sarah. And God bless her for that.

"Suffice it to say he wasn't whistling show tunes."

Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but was the president's spokesman implying that Bush is definitely NOT a homosexual.


Yes, IMHO, you are reading too much into it. Again, IMHO, I believe it was to contrast mountain biking with biking along a level, paved road around the block. If the spokesman had used "whistling Dixie" would you have read a racist connotation?

Here's what the AP has for Kerry's reaction:

Told about Bush's mishap, Kerry said, "I hope he's OK. I didn't know the president rode a bike."

I have to say, if that actually have video going like: nasty joke, hahaha, "okay, we're going on the air now," and then straight to concerned long face "I hope he's OK" it sure would make Kerry look like a two-faced jerk. However, he'd still be a two-faced jerk that supports stem cell research, so I guess I'd have to vote for him anyway.

The whole "reporters are considering if it's off the record" makes it sound more like a Drudge smudge to me, though. I guess we'll see shortly. I'd say the idea that the "liberal media" is going to cover for Kerry on something like this is just as kooky as the rainfall in texas theory. If someone has got that footage, then it's a scoop, and a scoop is big money.

a bit off topic but for the prof, if a thunderstorm pours on your head but no rain falls at the local weather station, the National Weather Service says it didn't rain on you. Cheers


Problem is, the so-called mainstream media has covered for Kerry in the past and, via AP ignoring his "joke", certainly is covering for him now.

Or, are you trying to say Kerry did not make the "joke?"


The mainstream media has covered for Kerry in the past? Could you enlighten me on what, where, when? Maybe you mean the Boston Globe, that will print anything that sounds bad for Kerry no matter how far fetched or unsupported?

Maybe you mean the non-intern non-story non-affair that Kerry didn't have? Actually, they did cover that, even though Drudge had every single possible detail wrong, down to a timeline implying that Kerry was having sex directly after his prostate surgery.

So, in summary, I am saying that if someone has this footage, we will be seeing it soon. If we don't see it, then it's not because of some "liberal media" coverup, it's because it doesn't exist. Obviously, I am in no position to speculate on if he actually made this joke or not, but talking about it like it's solid is very premature at this point.

Good grief. This is how sad it's become. Some 2-bit gossiping hack puts up something Kerry "might" have said, and everyone starts going at each other like it's World War III! No facts. No deep breaths. Just hysterical bickering.

The fact is the Kerry quote isn't even a quote on Drudge's site. Where did he say it? When? In front of what reporters? Since Kerry himself fell while riding earlier this year and since he's a politician, I find it very hard to believe he'd be so stupid as to say something like this.

The only attributed quote is this:

Told about Bush's mishap, Kerry said, "I hope he's OK. I didn't know the president rode a bike."


But, of course, they are covering for him. Only Republican conspiracy theories count, now, right? Sheesh.


It was the context. This president likes to go all out (macho) - not whistle show tunes (gay). He might as well have said "wasn't watching the first season of Will & Grace on DVD", "wasn't visiting Peter Allen website", "wasn't reading Judy Garland biography", "wasn't purchasing the collected works of Tom of Finland."

Jeff G That's really freaky, man, how I read your name below and thought that post wasn't Darlene's.

The eyes lied and I cried. Next time I stub my toe, it will be
"Darlene's Jaysus on a Pony!"

Soli -
Stem cells can wait. Pick a leader with character.

I'm not a Kerry supporter, but I thought that was a pretty snappy comeback (assuming it's true). If Bush had died as a result of the bike spill, it would not have been funny. Clearly, Kerry has a grasp of the basics of Comedy 101.


So, videotape is your definitive reality?

Pity. Guess when June 6th rolls around you'll be doubting D-Day.

Gumby, you asked for an opinion, I gave it. I don't believe it was an "anti-gay" line. Sue me. BTW, when I go "all out" when I'm at the gym, does that make me "macho"??

cue Twilight Zone theme

Sarah! Stem cells can wait. Pick a leader with character. What you said!


Comedy 101

We agree on something! Definitely, Kerry was channeling his inner-junior-high-student.


"Stem cells can wait. Pick a leader with character."

I'd going to have to say that we clearly have different priorities. If I've got to pick between stalling the most promising form of medical research and putting up with a two-faced jerk for the next 4 years, I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to go with the medical research. I'm not actually much for this "pick a leader with character" stuff, I'm more interested in picking a leader with policies that I can live with.

Also, for the "videotape is your definitive reality" quip, your darling single source Drudge is the one who said "in front of cameras." Are you already convinced he's wrong? I haven't even gone that far yet. I'm holding off judgement until he either puts up or shuts up with some actual detail.

Darleen (submitted for your approval)

When you go "all out" at the gym do you whistle Melissa Etheridge tunes?

Since I live about a half hour away from the President's ranch, let me chime in, however late, to back up the "ground is wet" assertion.

Other than a few stray sprinkles we haven't had any rain in a couple of weeks, but got almost 1.2 inches three weeks ago. Yet, as I was mowing my lawn yesterday I noticed that the grass is still visibly wet in places and the tires on my new riding lawn mower were actually still sinking into the moist earth. And that's with no measurable precipitation in two weeks and having a full 1.5 inches of rain less than what has been reported over in Crawford.

Further, with relative humidity consistently hovering in the 60-95% range for the intervening time period there has not been a whole lot of evaporization. So, it's been hot AND muggy.

As someone "on the scene" I find the White House's explaination both logical and credible.

As for the original post, let me point out that when Kerry went down on that snowboard, President Bush did not ask if his nose acted as a snow anchor.

Hey Mickey

Do you sell propane & propane accessories?

Has anybody checked if there's any sand in Boston? After all, that's what Kerry claimed to have slipped on a couple weeks ago. I haven't heard anything about a sandstorm hitting the hub city. Very suspicious, think I'd better adjust my tinfoil hat.

Darleen, that's sad that some folks near you lost their lives on a bad trail from a far bigger fall.

Well, like you, I am amazed that dirt and rain have become a conspiracy. You see what you want to see, eh?



Click my name
To play a game.
Take a poke
At John the JoKe.


When you go "all out" at the gym do you whistle Melissa Etheridge tunes?

Now, here I thought you had posited that "macho" and "gay" were mutually exclusive via the White House quote.

So, which is it?


Amazing, isn't it? And yes, its been a bad season for hikers/bikers in the So. Cal mountains. Even the highly experienced have been lost. Not to mention the fires have forced mountain lions into more people-occupied zones. One biker was killed and gnawed on, and another attacked and maimed on some Orange County, Cleveland Forest, trails.

best to you, too


Brainster -

Sorry to disappoint you. As much as I'd like to make fun of Kerry on this one, there's sand all over the place on the roads here. It gets put out there during the winters to provide traction, and becomes the bane of cyclists and motorcyclists during the summer.

Darleen, one might have only typed in "kerry dukakis moment" into google and found 21,300 hits.

As I said, it swings both ways.

"Now, here I thought you had posited that 'macho' and 'gay' were mutually exclusive via the White House quote."


They are mutually exclusive to all the homophobes that the Republicans pander to every election cycle.

Farmer Joe, I was being sarcastic. ;)

It's sad, but not surprising, that this is such a big deal over here. You guys are upset over a snarky comment made by Kerry (assuming that what Drudge reports is the truth, which is a big leap).

I'm more distressed because the president was duped into going to a messy, deadly, no-end-in-sight war by the Iranian government.

Of course, you people let your priorities be known when you impeached a president over his extra-marital affair.


I have done so, and I more than concede that many private citizens/bloggers/commentators have said as much.

However, please do tell the connection between them and the White House? As I said before, link me to GW or a White House office, hell! Even a Repubican Congressperson, making a snide comment about Kerry after he fell off his snowboard or bike. Cuz, that is what is being discussed here, Kerry's jr-highesque "jab" at GW.

If you want to do a "swing both ways" kind of comparison, stick "bush chimp" in the old google and find 95,000 hits.

J.o.a.P, you're transparent.


A lawyer, more than anyone else, has a duty to not engage in perjury. Officers of the court are held to an even higher standard than private citizens in this regard. Disbarment is the least of the punishments.

Billy Jeff gambled and lost. He knew it going in. Time to drop the "it was only about sex" sophistry.

I'm more distressed that Bushiephobia is so engrained that the obvious danger of Islamofascism is either ignored or even apologized for by the "get GW at all costs" crowd (and that includes so-called mainstream "journalists")

Wow darleen. Your logic has defeated me. I'm with BobT on this one. You guys get far more upset the more trivial the issue seems to be. I'd have thought that Chalabi playing us as stooges of Iran (of all places) in l'affaire Iraq would raise your hackles more than a snarky remark from Kerry.

Thin skin is a sign of weakness.

The Chalabi story has yet to play itself out...and here you go and think he was the sole reason we invaded Iraq.

I'm no more upset at Kerry's snarky remark then I am when my grandkids who are just learning to talk say "poo poo" then giggle.

Where my "skin is thin" is the loss of patience I have with contemporary America Firsters. At least Lindbergh had the decency to stop talking about the conspiracy of FDR/Brits/Jews after Pearl Harbor, but today all one gets from the "anti-war" crowd, post-9/11, post-Nick Berg, post-Islamist-threats, is increasing shrillness on the conspiracy of GW/Neocons/Jews.

And it's always about the Jews, don't ya know?

Brainster -

I figured as much, but y'know...

Wow. We must have a lot of pent up frustration over our situation and direction as a country if this kind of story can elicit such impassioned posts. As a registered Democrat, I have to say that I'm pretty tired of the "Bush lied!" and "Bush is an idiot" mantras. It's ugly and our party needs to do better than that if we expect to actually lead. Unfortunately, too many of us have forgotten about leading and only care about "winning" now.

That said, it would be nice if we held ourselves to the same high standards we seem to require of others. And it would be nice, too, if we cut the other guy a little slack sometimes when he makes a mistake. It isn't necessary that we use absolutely every single event as evidence to prove our worldview is the correct one. Such is the behavior in bad marriages and our political conversations have come to resemble them. Presumably, we have bigger issues with which to concern ourselves. Which is not to say that we shouldn't debate and discuss the infamous "bike accident" story. I'm just saying that a little perspective goes a long way.

In 2000, I was disappointed that GWB didn't apologize after the "@sshole" statement. It wouldn't have been that difficult to say "I made a careless remark, I regret that I said it, and I regret that other people had to hear it." Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't remember Bush doing that. If Kerry indeed said what was reported, a similar statement of regret would be appropriate. Both candidates can be rather disappointing when it comes to such common sense decisions. Isn't that kind of sad for both of our parties?

Thanks, Hal, for bringing this comment thread right over that shark tank! Because everyone knows that the subject the Clinton impeachment has everything to do with Kerry snarking at Bush falling off his bike.

Get. A. Life.

Gee darleen, you might want to check out Zinni's lastest. No conspiracy theory needed. Just incompetence.

Late to the party and still not seeing what the big deal is. If I fell off a bike, I would EXPECT someone to ask if the training wheels fell off. And then I'd laugh and call them a fucker.

Talk about a tempest in a teapot...

Just doing my job, ma'am.

"Thin skin is a sign of weakness."

Bullshit is a much more prominent one, Hal, such as reducing the entire Iraq campaign to some files provided by Chalabi.

Soli said: "If I've got to pick between stalling the most promising form of medical research and putting up with a two-faced jerk for the next 4 years, I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to go with the medical research."

Fetal stem cells just form cancerous masses. Adult stem cells show the most promise. But, there's no controversy about those.

Fetal stem cell research is basically all about building up a constituency to further embed abortion on demand as the law of the land through the continually elusive promise of miracle cures to the desperately ill.


Of course, why bother experimenting? We should have just asked you, the font of all knowledge. I wonder if you're self-aware enough to realize that you're repeating an argument that has been made against every form of medical research since the dawn of time. Probably not. The funny part is that it's right probably 90% of the time, but if we listened to it, we'd all still be dying at 20.

Abortion is the law of the land. It doesn't need any help. Stop taking your irrational rage out on sick people. The people who promise miracle cures at this point are shysters, but the fact is, if we never do the research, we'll never know one way or another.

Not even someone from the Progressive side of the spectrum such as myself could credibly claim them as a voice of reason.

Apologies for the late entry, but I just got here, and noticed this little bon mot.

Has Jack "fucked off" yet? Or is he aware that Kerry's own blog has the DU linked? I don't know about you folks, but I have several blogs linked because I recommend them to my readers, for one reason or another. I do not control them, but they consistently produce material I wish I were talented enough to produce on my own. If they were to suddenly shift into general moon-battiness or "black helicopter" theories, I would look long and hard at whether I would keep them as a link.

The DU didn't start out as a voice of reason. They began with explaining and justifying (although never quite proving) one conspiracy theory after another, finding the most tenuous links imaginable in an attempt to follow the reason that the DU exists - to elect a Democrat. They have since gone farther and farther afield, and they revel in that journey into weirdness.

But Kerry has either got a staff that is so incompetent that no one has bothered to actually look at it and see what kind of reputation they give to Democrats before linking it, or he and his staff have looked at it and agree with the message they send.

I don't know which is worse.

I thought this thread was going to have an intelligent debate, but instead I found a debate about the wetness of topsoil and a guy who can't stop using the 'f' word (yes, I mean you Jeff). I would expect the higher road from fellow Republicans.

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned in the thread yet but I'll respond with what I think Kerry was trying to get at:

Sure, you can listen to what Kerry said and call it childish and certainly call it inappropriate. I won't argue much with you there. What you must understand though is that he was trying to be ironic. He was responding to Bush's alleged use of the phrase "Iraq is now ready to take their training wheels off" when addressing the republican members of congress. Bush using that phrase is itself incredibly patronizing. We're talking about an area of the world that is arguably the cradle of civilization.

Either way, Kerry probably shouldn't have made fun at Bush's expense...but clearly it was in direct response to Bush's inappropriate use of the phrase.

Jack must be a member of the D-bunker.

Hits all the talking points, shys away when called on it. Downplays Kerry's gaffe while dropping into the "they started it" defense.

Bugger off, Alice.

"line of attack is worse than false - it's ineffective"

How revealing.

So, Soli, in other words, fetal stem cell research is not, in fact "the most promising form of medical research" but simply a crapshoot like dozens of other promising treatments. Except those other promising treatments don't involve creating a market for baby breeders and parts harvestors.


It's currently the most promising crapshoot, and nothing involves creating the market you suggest (in fact, you've just established beyond doubt that you don't know anything at all about the subject).

I thought Kerry's "Dukakis Moment" wasn't that he wiped out on his bike, just his cycling outfit. Dukakis didn't crash the tank or anything, he just looked like a fool in that helmet.

Soli - is not. You, sir, clearly have no clue.

The only stem cells that show real promise are adult stem cells. I'm no holy roller, I'm actually pro-choice with reasonable limitations. But honesty compels me to observe that there are currently no applications for fetal stem cells and there likely never will be. The obvious conclusion is that fetal stem cell research is not primarily driven by medical need. What, then, drives it?


You say that fetal stem cells have no use. Other people say they will provide miracle cures. I say we can't possibly know. You want to know what drives the research? It's the unknown. We'll never know unless we do the research. We could research for 50 years and never find a thing, and then make a huge breakthrough in a flash of insight. You seem to be trying to claim that you can somehow prove this won't happen. You can't, and you know it. I'll leave you with a quote:

"However, most scientists, at least today, believe that research on embryonic stem cells offer the most promise because these cells have the potential to develop in all of the tissues in the body."

- President Bush, August 2001

That's from almost three years ago, Soli. There have been many breakthroughs in stem cell research since then. None of them were with fetal stem cells.

There is nothing that can even potentially be done with fetal stem cells that cannot be done with adult stem cells harvested from bone marrow.

This is all about putting abortion beyond the reach of debate.


You keep saying that and you keep not backing it up with anything at all. Given your previous posts on this topic, you have no scientific credibility, so let's just pass on that.

I would be interested in hearing how you think stem cell research is going to have any effect on the abortion debate at all. Having seen a few abortion debates, I hate to break it to you, but nuclear weapons couldn't sway most people on this issue. Stem cell research isn't even going to make a tiny ripple.

Under different circumstances, I'd never consider voting for Kerry. But I feel that Kerry's a better choice than Bush.

When he was the Govenor, I thought Bush was sneaky and two-faced; not that most politicians aren't, but I feel that Bush takes the cake. He'd push a bill for something, giving a very popular reason for it, but in the long run, it was only to benefit his wealthy backers.

As far as Kerry's tacky remark, yes I agree with you that it was tacky. But even if he'd said nanny nanny boo boo, while making arm pit noises, I'd still vote for him instead of Bush (and then vote him out in 2008).

It seems like many other swing voters don't care too much for Bush either, if the polls are correct. It's a shame the GOP decided to stick with Bush; I'm sure they'll regret it if we see a repeat of 92.

weddy - guess you never read about Kerry's Senate campaign to formally recognize Vietnam (and hush up reports of MIAs) so that his construction buddies could get $100+ million development contracts. If you think multi-faced John F'ing Kerry, who married his way to super wealth (twice) is less venal than GW, well, you're in sore need of some education on that.

Soli - imagining that I have no scientific cred is a very nice way to stick your head in the sand and avoid the implications that people who want to see dead babies are using credulous people like you for their own purposes. Suit yourself. One day, when the truth hits you smack on the forehead and all your smug self-delusion is laid bare, you'll wish you had listened.

Are you really serious that you can't see how fetal stem cell therapies (or, at least, the promise thereof) will create a pro-abortion constituency? You really do think one-dimensionally, don't you? When granny thinks that killing a kid and stripping out its stem cells is going to make her Parkinson's go away, you're gonna' have whole nursing homes full of selfish old boomers who will vote to strip the cells out of anything even resembling a baby.

And, please Soli, by all means, do not believe me or any single other person in making up your mind about important matters like this.

I was once also a callow youth who bought into everything the liberal media spoon fed me. It's when you start digging into things that you start to realize you are only getting one side of the story, if not being flat out lied to. And, then you may start to perceive the reasons why and the larger agendas that are playing out.

So,DO do a little reading on the subject. Look for articles on fetal stem cells and cancer. Look for articles on adult stem cells from bone marrow. Go to the respected scientific journals. You will soon find that fetal stem cells have, in fact, proven virtually worthless and that adult stem cells are really where most of the action and promise are.

@notsofast Those are some of the reasons I don't like Kerry. But I'd still vote for Kerry before Bush.

Put someone else in as the Republican for president, I'd most likely vote for them to avoid voting for Kerry. But no way on Bush. I've read a lot more documented things against Bush than I have on Kerry; they both stink, but Bush stinks worse.

I'm not against you, I'm not against Republicans. It's Bush (and Cheney too) I'm against.