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Posted by me on May 16, 2004 09:37 PM | Permalink
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Tracked on May 17, 2004 06:16 AM
As a lifelong Dodgers fan, one of the best image from 2000 Olympics was the picture of Tommy Lasorda draped in American flag, as he lead a bunch of no-name college players to the championship. I'll refrain from using coarce language in describing my disgust at USOC's cowardness and apeasement.
May 16, 2004 11:26 PM
If you haven't already done so, I suggest opening up a cafepress.com account, and then start marketing a line of FUUSOC clothing.
Perhaps it would be OK if we waved a FUUSOC flag at the Olympics?
May 16, 2004 11:35 PM
I like it. Pronounced "Foo-sock", of course.
Farmer Joe |
May 17, 2004 12:10 AM
(flame proof vest - on) -- the problem is that lately a number of American athletes have taken "bad winners" to a new level. basketball players beating up on 98 lbs competitors, track athletes winning and then doing hulk hogan type poses, swimmers spitting into other competitors lanes to "psyche them out", boxers who lose and carry on (and on, and on, etc) in the ring, and so on.
believe me i am sure that when an American wins, grabs a flag and runs around with it, no one will be upset, but the level of bad sportsmanship displayed by some of our "amateur" athletes has been disgusting.
our athletes are ambassadors to other nations and are there for sportsmanship, diplomacy and winning - a lot of these schmucks only know how to win, and nothing is worse then a bad winner.
May 17, 2004 08:34 AM
Hen is right to a point, although, don't you think this olympics, rather than any other, the media will play up any unsportsmanlike conduct by 'Mericuns as a way of pointing at the incivility that president Bush brought to the world? "Spit in the lane? Well, if Bush hadn't spit at the world like he did when he circumvented the UN..." "Hulk Hogan pose, showing off his muscles, just like Bush did when he invaded Iraq." Etc.
I'd be more afraid, as an athlete, of being on the receiving end of a Munich type assault, personally, but then, I'm a chickenhawk.
Eric Castillo |
May 17, 2004 08:39 AM
Yes, it's always OUR fault isn't it? We SHOULDN'T celebrate our victories. We might upset the poor widdle other countries. They might have to do some self-examination then, won't they? We have a pride that we've earned over the last couple of hundred years. I have no problem with expressing it.
May 17, 2004 09:34 AM
I'm not going to bother to dig up the picture (partly because I don't feel like searching Google Images for "idiot sprinters flexing preening American flag") but I believe that's the sort of thing they're trying to discourage, not Jim Craig.
I don't think the USOC handled this wisely, but I'm still entirely in favor of sportsmanship and class, and fully support trying to knock that into the heads of the athletes.
May 17, 2004 09:46 AM
Eric - i have no idea if you are being sarcastic or if you are a moron. Bush "spit in the lane" by circumventing the UN? The same UN that was being bribed by Iraq and refused to support their own resolutions viz Iraq? I am going to give you the benefit of doubt by saying you are joking.
Leonidas - You are missing the point. Celebrating our victories is fine. Bad sportsmanship, showboating and trying to humiliate our opponents is just stupid. Nothing bothers me more then some idiot from America wiping up the floor with their opponent and then carrying on as if they are king kong.
When America won the gold in Lake Placid it was as an underdog beating overwhelming odds and their show of joy, patriotism and flag waving was completely natural - when the American 4×1 relay team, who are odds on fave to win a gold, do in fact win, and then strike Mr Universe poses for 15 minutes, is disgusting and tarnishes the name of ALL of our athletes (and the vast majority of our athletes compete and win with dignity and respect).
May 17, 2004 09:47 AM
I have to agree with hen to a large extent, and wonder if people are overreacting a tad.
If you look at recent Olympics, I think our athletes have exhibited poor sportsmanship on occasion, and been poor "ambassadors" for our country. We don't need celebration like that track relay team that was strutting around and preening after winning their gold. Not to mention that their antics, and those of some other athletes, could technically be seen as desecrating the flag.
I'm still not so sure the USOC isn't just saying "exhibit good sportsmanship, and think about your fellow athletes from other countries a little before you act." IMO, even disregarding the particular politics of today, we could do with about 25% more humility at the Olympics, particularly since we tend to so dominate them now.
Now, it's very possible to go overboard in the other direction, but I'm not yet convinced the USOC is doing that.
David C |
May 17, 2004 09:49 AM
Eric - sorry reread your post and i understand what you are saying viz the press. My bad. You are 100% correct.
May 17, 2004 09:49 AM
American athletes have been warned not to wave the U.S. flag during their medal celebrations at this summer's Olympic Games in Athens, for fear of provoking crowd hostility and harming the country's already-battered public image.
The spectacle of victorious athletes grabbing a national flag and parading it around the stadium is a familiar part of international sporting competition, but U.S. Olympic officials have ordered their 550-strong team to exercise restraint and avoid any jingoistic behavior.
"What I am telling the athletes is, 'Don't run over and grab a flag and take it round the track with you.' It's not business as usual for American athletes. If a Kenyan or a Russian grabs their national flag and runs round the track or holds it high over their heads, it might not be viewed as confrontational. Where we are in the world right now, an American athlete doing that might be viewed in another manner."
Some of you are missing--or willfully ignoring--the point. The USOC has not come out and said, "No showboating." It has not said, "No Mr. Universe poses." It has not said, "No carrying on like King Kong," or "No spitting into other competitors' lanes" or "No fifteen minute victory celebrations."
If the USOC had said these things, or even, as David C. wants to believe, "'exhibit good sportsmanship, and think about your fellow athletes from other countries a little before you act,'" there would be no problem. There are far too many bad winners around, and I (as well as--I'm guessing--Michele) would heartily support the USOC instructing its athletes to be on their best behavior.
But that isn't what happened. American athletes have been warned not to wave the U.S. flag during their medal celebrations at this summer's Olympic Games in Athens. What the USOC did say is, "Don't run over and grab a flag and take it round the track with you."
In an international competition such as the Olympics, celebrating with the flag (minus all the other nonsense that athletes can and do get up to) could be perfectly appropriate. But despite all of the other things that the USOC could have focused on, they chose to tell our Olympians that they aren't allowed to wave the American flag, period, because it might "provoke hostility." That is the issue here. That is why people are up in arms and pissed off at the USOC, and rightfully so.
dexter green |
May 17, 2004 10:31 AM
Dex - I don't disagree with what you are saying, i think the USOC and the IOC both suck, but if they were to say " you can't do hulk hogan poses after a win" people wd go ballistic (racist, etc etc), but if they were to list every act of idiocy they wd invariably miss a bunch, so by saying what they are saying i hope it's just a way to say celebrate but don't be idiots.
I cd very well be wrong, but i hope not.
May 17, 2004 10:54 AM
hen: How do you get that the USOC is just saying "celebrate but don't be idiots"? Did you read the article or the quotes that dexter cited? There's no reason to restate the points that he made so well, so I'll just say that advocating good sportsmanship -- something that should always be advocated to athletes representing the U.S. -- is not at all related to telling athletes to avoid expressions patriotism.
Oh, and what is racist about referring to "Hulk Hogan poses"? Are balding body builders with mullets and handle-bar moustaches now a race of their own?
May 17, 2004 11:16 AM
Stars and Stripes star in Olympic ad campaign
Mike Moran must be outraged!
May 17, 2004 11:19 AM
Insomni - The most obvious example of poor sportmanship last olympics was a group of 4 black guys doing hulk hogan poses - do you understand my point now or do you need it spelled out?
Yes i read what dex wrote. I understand it. My point is it is easier for the USOC to say no more flag waving and show respect (which encompasses the entire debacle displayed by a few idiotic athletes) then to name specific examples of idiocy.
I'm not going to say it's a black thing, but.....if the shoe fits....
May 17, 2004 11:21 AM
What is "a black thing"? Yes, I would like that spelled out. I did not remember that it was "4 black guys doing hulk hogan poses", but I think it's somewhat of a stretch to say that advocating good sportsmanship would be construed as racist. It's a moot point, though... the USOC isn't going to say anything about "Hulk Hogan poses", I'm sure.
Where did the USOC say to show respect? The whole focus was on waving the U.S. flag and -- though the word is misused, in my opinion -- "jingoism". Are you in denial? And why?
May 17, 2004 11:34 AM
sigh - no i am not in denial. IF the USOC said "no hulk hogan poses (done by 4 BLACK guys), no pushing around smaller players (done by 2 BLACK basketball players), no complaining on and on about judge's decisions (done by a BLACK boxer)" then there might be some out there (hello Jesse Jackson) who wd say that this is a racist decision by the USOC, therefore the USOC is saying cool it, all of it. Period.
oh and hulk hogan does not have a handle bar mustache. FYI.
hey in football who was the guy who did the sharpie thing? and then the guy who did the "pull a cell phone out of the goal padding"? also who was the guy who did the finger across the throat taunt? nah it's not a black thing.
May 17, 2004 11:50 AM
Here's another quote that I was sort of focusing on: "
“We are now discussing proper conduct at the Games,” said Darryl Seibel, a spokesman for the USOC. “Given the current international climate, we want to make sure our athletes are well advised and know what they might face in Athens (search).
“That doesn’t mean they should not celebrate when they win, or wave the flag. But what it does mean is that they should act appropriately given the international situation.”
David C |
May 17, 2004 11:55 AM
Well, can they run around the track with a "don't tread on me" flag instead?
May 17, 2004 11:58 AM
Hmm, the article David C cites presents the story in an entirely different light. Toning down arrogance -- understandable. It still looks like Mike Moran wants to take it further.
May 17, 2004 12:15 PM
And the Olympics are relevant why? And American (or Israeli or British) athelete that doesn't make their sport's team will probably be thanking their lucky stars once the Greek security thing hits the fan. I, for one, am glad I don't have a relative heading off to the clusterfuck that will be the Athens Olympics.
BTW: the British are so content with security in Athens that they are housing their atheletes in Cyprus.
Andrew Ian Dodge |
May 17, 2004 01:26 PM
"Insomni - The most obvious example of poor sportmanship last olympics was a group of 4 black guys doing hulk hogan poses - do you understand my point now or do you need it spelled out?"
Yes, that was tacky--though my impression was that Americans were more offended by the behavior than the Aussies were (I remember corresponding with an online Australian friend on the subject, and he said that the papers actually seemed to enjoy the "enthusiasm" of the US track athletes). If Moran was saying that it might be nice to cut down on the trash talking and mugging for the camera after US victories, that would not offend me. He should not have brought up the flag.
M. Scott Eiland |
May 17, 2004 03:12 PM
I suspect the 6th Fleet ARG will "just happen" to be in the Aegean, and the Atlantic Fleet ARG will spend some quality port call time in Lisbon, if not at Gibraltar itself, during the Olympics.
May 17, 2004 07:22 PM
I don't think Siebel (USOC spokesman, quoted in FOX article) is on the same page as Moran (man in charge of athletes' sensitivity training, quoted in Washington Times article).
For practical purposes, I'll put my money on Moran's statement being more accurate than Siebel's, as the former's job is to actually carry out the training while the latter's is to make the USOC's public face look all warm and fuzzy.
dexter green |
May 17, 2004 11:52 PM