A Small Victory

Posting potentially inflamitory material before reasonable proof has been established is one of the most unethical practices imaginable.

It is the mark of a scoundrel.

In instances where someone's family may be negatively effected by the "allegations" the "accuser" should be beaten with a sock full of quarters.

In cases where a common name is used to establish a connection, they should be flayed alive.

Everything about that blog gives me the shudders. Is she from Berkeley, by chance?

Even if it turns out to be true, what will you have to apologize for? Everything you've written here will still be true.

I can't read the black-against-black type. Is there some way for me to change skins?

"My question to Kramer is this: Why post you research, assumptions and conspiracy theories before you have anything solid to report?"

It's called "smear".

In the brave new blogging world, we're all journalists. Whether we're qualified or not. I feel more (self-)important already!

You forgot the papier mache heads. They can't be seen wandering the streets without their heads.

She's being very irresponsible. Good heavens, there are three people in my COUNTY who have the same identical name that I have. Extrapolate that to the United States, and there are probably thousands. For her to put this on the internet before fact-checking is nothing less than a slimy smear campaign.

What a maroon.

Elizabeth
Imperial Keeper

I wonder if John Kerry, the Democratic candidate for President of The United States is the same Vietnam veteran who protested the war after he got back?

Oh wait, he is the same guy. I apologize for the negative attack.

Easycure,

Well, Kerry did change wives. According to Kramer that's easy enough to do in five years...

Lucy Fripple: I can't read the black-against-black type. Is there some way for me to change skins?

I have the same problem reading it, and I've discovered a temporary fix for you, Lucy. Go over to the Monthly Archives menu and just select the current month. In the archives, everything is posted with black text on a white background.

Saw that yesterday when I was doing my rounds of the Left-wing for my Kos links roundup, and read through it, Michele. I'm not going to link to this post, nor to Kramer's... I think the last thing that Teague's family needs on top of everything else is to see Kramer's speculations spread across dozens of websites.

There's nothing intrinsically wrong with her pursuing that line of thought to see if it pans out: I've followed some pretty wild speculations myself to see where they led, and then dropped them when they weren't supported by evidence - but I did it in private and didn't post them to the 'Net as a rumour. That's irresponsible and callous to Teague's family.

For the record, my son is currently serving in the US Navy with Timothy McVey.

Tom Bowler said:

"It's called 'smear'."

It's also called "actual malice." In addition to reporting outright known lies, willful disregard for the truth or falsehood of your statements is the other way to get yourself successfully sued for defamation. Kramer had better HOPE Teague the contractor was also Teague the neo-Nazi, because otherwise his estate looks to have a very solid libel case against her.

"It's also called "actual malice." In addition to reporting outright known lies, willful disregard for the truth or falsehood of your statements is the other way to get yourself successfully sued for defamation. Kramer had better HOPE Teague the contractor was also Teague the neo-Nazi, because otherwise his estate looks to have a very solid libel case against her."

It's been a long time since I took my bar review course (the only exposure I had to defamation law), but IIRC survivors can't sue for defamation of dead people--which is why tabloids feel free to go to town claiming that (for example) JFK Jr. and his wife were sleeping with everything up to and including livestock without worrying about pesky lawsuits.

It's okay though, see, because she doesn't feel any better about doing this than we do. But it needs to be said! Before she's sure! Because... um...

Seems a bit ironic that a novelist*, someone whose own name and reputation is so important, would go out of her way to smear someone else's.

*Okay, a romance novelist, but a novelist...

<sarcasm>I thought the rule on defamation was that no one could ever be sued for anything they blogged under any circumstances.</sarcasm>

Seriously, though, while this issue is way out of my area of practice, I could have sworn that I learned in law school that at least some jurisdictions had repealed the common law rule that you can't libel the dead. If not, maybe Teague's widow can sue on the theory that she too was defamed, as the false statements about her husband reflected poorly on her, as well. Meanwhile, maybe some of the surviving "mercenaries" can sue Kotze for libeling them, along with the four murdered victims, as "mercenaries."

Yes, it's a smear, no doubts about it.

But it's a sloppy smear. Her assumption seems to be that because one is from Tennessee, that of course he's the same guy who was the pastor for AN. She trolls for pictures from her computer and then tries to compare them. She makes judgments on ages by what's written in articles, etc. It's sloppy. I used to do this stuff for a living and once you learn how to navigate the bureaucracies, it's the easiest thing in the world to locate some of this information. If she really felt she had something, she should really research it---as in obtaining the information listed on birth certificates, death certificates, IRS forms, etc. All of this stuff is in the public record and is easily accessible, but you have to leave your computer to obtain it in most cases. You have to pay money for copies and fill out forms and you have to wait for a bureaucrat to go and dig it up for you. If she's really curious, she should go to USSearch and shell out the $20 for the quickie check. You don't even need someone's social security # for it. But she doesn't even do that. Why? Because it would stop her fun.

But it's much, much easier and cheaper to just troll the internet to try to posthumously libel someone. I'd like to see someone sue her and see if that "I don't want it to be true," excuse keeps her ass out of the fire.

I'll have to go to the lab and check this out, but wasn't Kathryn Kramer the star of "No Holes Barred XII." I'm pretty certain of this.

Whoops! That was Cathryn Creamer, my bad.

I have the funniest readers.

Ok, the most smart-assed readers. Even better.

Joe, it is the same person. It was her stage name. I bet you anything that with all the makeup and implants (breast, lip, butt, ...), she would be identical if enough grainy pictures were compared. I am sure that if you compare where both of them were in their lifetimes, they must have been in the same city for at least 10 minutes.

What the nuts forget is that these "mercenaries" that they so despise (who don't they despise?) free them up to sit around posting crude, cruel bon mots instead of answering a national draft. They ought to be baking cookies for them!

Thx ScottC. That archive thing works like a charm.

"I really, really hope it's not the same guy!"

Now why do I find that so hard to believe?

Even a rare name can be duplicated. When Sirhan B. Sirhan killed Robert F. Kennedy, a perfectly respectable Arab-American businessman in L.A. named Sirhan L. Sirhan got a LOT of grief from friends and acquaintances until he convinced them he wasn't the same guy. (I may have one or both middle initials wrong, but it doesn't matter.)

To put it another way, I've never met anyone with the same last name as me (Hendry, if you're wondering) other than known relatives, but there are at least 10 people in the world with the same first and last name, including one or two who have worked in the same business or the same state as me at one time or another. It would be easy for an unwary person to confuse us. In fact, I did once get a series of nasty phone calls from a collection agency because I and one of my homonyms were living in the same state and had Visas from the same bank, and he was way behind on his payments.

Let's see....Ms. Kramer has received death threats, spam attacks, personal threats against her children, etc etc.

I'm wondering when we can expect an apology from Michele here for helping incite these cowardly little attacks against someone voicing speculation?

You know, I'd much rather just have right wing bloggers out putting more flag decals on their gas-guzzlers as a way of bravely supporting the troops, instead of making death threats against a woman who dares raise questions. But bring it on. You're just showing America the kind of cowardice that the wingnuts stand for.

You really aren't that stupid, are you? Kathryn posted something totally irresponsible and I called her on it. I am not the only one to post about it, nor did I ask my readers to go spam her comments or threaten her. So why the hell would I apologize?

How can you call me a coward when I publicly stated my dislike with what Kramer wrote about?

Please, grow up.

Apology for what? Michele merely linked to Ms. Kramer's PUBLIC blog, and quoted her verbatim.