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Kos and Effect

(Yes, I stole that line from someone in my comments). Sure, I said I wasn't going to post about Kos anymore, but this is more about his sycophants than him. They are now leveling an attack at Glenn Reynolds, in repsonse to his response to Kos's vile statements. [I've put the rest of this post in the extended entry, because I know some of you are tired of hearing about it. There's some other related stuff down at the bottom of the post.]
Steve Gilliard appears to be a man living on the fringe of sanity.
Glenn Reynolds, instapundit, thinks it's a good idea to harrass Kos's advertisers, or at least doesn't objects. Well, if he thinks it's a good idea for Kos, I think it's an excellent idea for him. As I have plenty of time, I think we could give him a dose of medicine he thinks is good. Now, he may have some weasel claim that HE didn't call for a boycott or harassment, but you know, when you lie down with dogs, you pick up fleas. He wants to pass on a bad idea, well, he'll get to live with the consequences if Kos is affected. We're not going to lie down, excuse his actions or find a way to live with it. You fuck with one of us, we'll come back and play the same game. I don't like or believe in boycotts, for anyone. But there is no day I'll stand by and watch someone who helped me get their ass kicked.
First of all, Glenn did not harass Kos's advertisers. He posted about the loss of advertising on Daily Kos, and linked to some people that were writing to Kos's advertisers. My question to Steve is this: Why go after Glenn? Why not go after the people he linked to, the people that were actually writing the emails and calling for the boycott against Kos's advertisers? Actually, I know the answer. It's because Glenn is visible. Steve's idea is to launch an attack against the guy who may not be responsible, but is high profile. That's just bad form, Steve. bq. So if Glenn, safely protected by tenure, wants to limit the free speech of someone else, even with a wink and a nod, well, we're gonna take a lesson from the White House. We're gonna blame HIM, not the guy he linked to. He's gonna be the one reading quotes back in his local paper and getting to deal with the hassles from nervous advertisers. What is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. If he wants to play Bill O'Reilly, I'll sure play Al Franken and I won't be alone. Hello, Steve? Calling for people to email advertisers (which Glenn did not do, by the way) is hardly limiting someone's free speech. No one has called for Kos's site to be taken down. No one is trying to limit what he can say. No one has asked his hosting company to pull the plug on Daily Kos. So please explain to me just how Glenn and everyone else is stepping on Zuniga's right to free speech? Steve, you sound awfully angry about your friend Zuniga being taken to task for his words. That's ok, be angry. Go ahead. But don't take your anger out on the wrong people. Here's an idea: ask your friend Zuniga why he thought it was ok to gloat over the brutal deaths of these people. Ok, ok. Forget that, because you agree with him. But answer me this, Steve-o; how come none of Kos's little groupies are taking issue with the fact that he tried to hide his words, that he cheated with his redirecting of links, that he lied, lied, lied to not only those against him, but to his own readers? Do you really hero worship a liar, cheat an coward? Shame on you, Steve. Steve then writes a little letter to Glenn, including this paragraph: bq. This is a two-sided game. You want people to boycott Kos's advertisers, people can boycott yours. It may not be fair, but neither is life. I think it's best we all let each other speak freely and leave the boycotts and advertiser letters alone. But if you want to cripple his site, I'll personally write a letter to your advertisers, department heads, school newspaper and every other place I can find. Cripple his site? Are you that delusional, Steve? Have you been so blinded by this left disease of moral equivilancy that you can't even see what a fool you are making of yourself? Cripple? The guy gets about 300 comments on each of his posts. He will still, after all is said and done, have one of the highest ranked blogs in the poltical part of the blogosphere. And just what would you say to Glenn's employers? That he took a guy to task for reveling in the the fact that the mutilated bodies of American civilian employees in Iraq were dragged through the streets and burned? Would you tell his school paper that Glenn objected to a guy who rearranged his site in order to cover his ass? You'd be laughed at. Nobody is stopping Kos from speaking freely. Charles Johnson isn't showing up at his house with a muzzle. In this country, we are actually allowed to protest things people say that we don't agree with. And we are allowed to write these little words on a computer screen calling someone an ass. Steve concludes with: These guys want to mess with your right to express yourself. I think they deserve the same. Again, please show me where Glenn has tried to mess with Zuniga's right to express himself. For the record, this is what Glenn wrote: bq. I haven't led a campaign, or called for people to de-link him, or anything. I find de-linking campaigns dumb, even when they're not conducted by Jim Capozzolla. (But as Kevin Drum notes, when Democrats like John Kerry delink Kos, it's because they have to -- statements like his are vote killers.) I just noted Kos's comments. And what bothered me about it wasn't Kos. It was that Kos -- who I used to think of as a reasonable if partisan lefty -- seems to be infested with a degree of hatred that I previously associated with the Democratic Underground and other fringe sites. And then this: bq. UPDATE: Kos now appears to have taken down his site. That seems excessive to me. All he really needed to do was to issue a genuine, non-weasely apology. But then, he's trying to make it as a political consultant, and as Kevin Drum notes, comments like the one on "mercenaries" undercut his value there. However, I'd like to see him back and blogging, in a somewhat more reasonable mode. (It was just a few days ago that I was recommending him as a reasonable lefty to Hugh Hewitt, though it seems like longer now.) Yea, that certainly sounds like a guy who is stifling someone's free speech. Steve Gilliard, you are an ass. Personally, I don't think Kos is a "scumbag" or whatever some people are calling him. I just think he's misguided and err, wrong. But that's just me. [Gilliard link via RJ West] Oh, and look here at this DU thread, accusing the VRWC of hacking Kos's site or having it taken down. Sorry, he was just changing servers, which is why his site was down this morning. Don't expect we'll be seeing an apology or retraction from those DU folks, though. Another note: I don't really agree with the "this is what the left has become" threads. I saw many left bloggers, including Oliver Willis, CalPundit and Jack Cluth giving Kos a smackdown. It's more like "this is what Kos has become." Basically, he's become a moonbat. One more note: I do not - I repeat, do not - agree with nor condone what some of the more, shall we say, brain cell deprived rightwingers are saying, in calling for Kos to be beat up, burned, murdered, stalked, harrassed in person, etc. etc. That's just disgusting behavior. You should be ashamed of yourselves. That kind of crap makes you the right wing equivilant of those idiots on DU.

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» Round them up... from Drumwaster's Rants!
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» "News!" that lowers the level of dicourse even further! from Who Tends the Fires
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Comments

Why do people like Steve reduce everything to "crushing of dissent"? (Kinda like the Hollywoodiots who make similarly 'enlightened' observations while half a dozen news cameras are jammed in their faces.) So, Kos is free to speak his mind but freely criticising Kos is "crushing" that right to speak? Huh? Oh, I see. It's simple. It's easy. It fits the mold. So it's become an automatic tactic no matter how assbackwards.

when you lie down with dogs, you pick up fleas.

even with a wink and a nod

What is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander

He really could have worked a few more cliches into his post. i.e.

Six of one, half dozen of the other.

A bird in the hand is worth two in the Bush.

etc.

Once Kos (or anyone else) takes ads, they answer to more than just their readers. Here's a shocker for Kos, advertisers won't pay to be on a site when the owner says hateful, horrible things that offend most sane adults (you know, their voters or target audience). And Kos can remove, hide or cover what was written but the truth usually finds its way out.

Actions have consequences. Kos said what he believed, or at least thought he believed, until those beliefs started costing him money and links to thinks like Sen. Kerry's blog. Suddenly he's being picked on. Boo-hoo. People with principles actually stick with them. What does this say about Kos?

You should pardon the expression but it is time for Kos to cowboy up. Be who you are Kos or quit complaining.

How funny. I'm sure the guys at rightwingstuff.com and spiritofamerica.net are all freaked out over Steve's call for a boycott. Well, you tried to buy him a clue in your post.

Maybe Kos should avoid selling ads to politicians? They are a little more sensitive to which way the wond blows..

I wonder what statements of Glenn's this guy thinks Glenn's advertisers are going to object to? I mean, it would be one thing if Instapundit was in the habit of making hateful statements like Kos made, but he doesn't, ever...not that I've read anyway.

So have at it, dude. Somehow I think Gillard will be very disappointed in his results.

I'm interested in the controversy surrounding Kos's statements, so I tried to read this post, but I couldn't. The black text against a dark grey background just gives me headaches whenever I try to read more than two paragraphs.

I won't try and dictate a particular color scheme, but I will suggest a greater contrast of text and background color.

I'm on board with what Rob said. Steve G. uses way to many cliches to be taken seriously.

Personally, I avoid trite phrases like the plague.

Anyway, that's my two cents.

Does this mean that Kerry is now a rebel without a Kos? Thank you, thankyouverymuch.

If gloating of the death and mutilation of innocent Americans is not sufficient to qualify a person as a scumbag, what is?

What Kelley said. I realize that the far left thinks anyone who supported the Iraq war is an insane evil rightwingnut, but the fact is that Glenn is pretty moderate and inoffensive, and he doesn't even have a comment section that Gillard & Co. can scour for insane Freeper comments to tar him with.

And when did stating the truth become a "weasel claim"? I just double-checked the two posts about this at Instapundit, and the most one can say is that he links to a Best of the Web post, which in turn links to someone who has a list of Kos' advertisers, and who wrote emails to them; and even that's four updates down in the original post.

Oh Jim you beat me to the punch(line). That's gonna Kost you son, I promise.

What. a. Retard.

The posters over on John Kerry's blog are freaking outbecause JFK de-linked kos.

The cries of 'sensorship' (their spelling, not mine) are pretty funny. Link at LGF.

What Spoons said. Also, it's nice to see someone finally making the "your free speech is hurting my revenue stream, and that's censorship!" argument. Just under the wire.

Say, wasn't it also Glenn Reynolds who, quite rightly, called people's attention to Trent Lott's racist comments at Strom Thurmond's birthday party back when? Didn't that end up costing Lott his position as Senate Majority Leader? I guess Lott should think about contacting Glenn's advertisers because, hey, censorship!

It's a dark day indeed when people fail to grasp the concept of free speech; the same can be said for the ability to comprehend the definition of a mercenary.

Kos has garnered a position of trust among a segment of his political party. With that trust comes the responsibility to be honest with his supporters. Knowing full well that his words have a powerful impact, Kos has chosen to deliberately mislead others into furthering his cause with the rally cries of "Repression of free speech!" and "The only good mercenary is a dead mercenary!"

From the moment he was called on his post, Kos retreated into denial mode. I'm reminded of my older son when he was young; whenever he misbehaved, his responses always began with "Yeah but", which is the standard 'out' for those who cannot face the truth about themselves, and who will go to any length to avoid it. Around our house, this became known as the "Yabbut gambit", and I'm saddened to see Kos pull it out of his play book.

Kotze (German for "puke") should be thankful that no one is suing him for libel. Yet.

Spontaneous boycotts do not limit free speech.

I'm with you, though, on the folks who have posted threats. On one level, it's childish; on another, it's actionable. Thank you for taking the time to comment on this.

Sigh. So many miss the concept of free speech, that you can say pretty much what you want, but it does not meen freedom from consequences.

I find it amusing that some have chosen to attack Glenn Reynolds as the leader of a vast right wing conspiracy. I knew of Glenn long before he began blogging, and there are many things I could say about him. Time being short, I will simply point out the following: Glenn does have a fairly good sense of humor. He not only encourages the Alliance of Free Blogs, he tried to join it. He has taken the fake quotes and other things, including my references to him as Cardinal Puppilieu and Gary/Glenn The Rat, in stride and even run with some of what he considers to be the best. When Glenn makes a mistake, he fixes it. When Glenn makes a mistake of fact or other item that needs to be acknowledged, he does so. To the best of my knowledge, Glenn has never tried to cover up any mistake he has made, blame said mistake on others, or otherwise tried to evade responsibility for said mistake. I am not aware of any time that Glenn has ever led a personal crusade to “get” a blogger, not even Frank J.

Yep, mean and vicious, that's Glenn. Snort.

1) Who the hell is Steve Gillard and why does anyone care what he says?

2) Has Steve Gillard ever heard of spell check?

3)This is what the left has become. 3 left bloggers disavowed him, so what? He runs a big consulting firm that's an important player in the Democratic party. He runs one of the 2 or 3 most popular left-wing blogs. Talkleft is defending him to the hilt and so are many others. All of his commenters are behind him. John Kerry's decision to stop linking him was horribly unpopular.

4) I haven't heard of anyone, anyone calling for Kos to be beaten up, harassed etc. I don't understand why anyone feels the need to leave these kind of caveats, because it makes it seem like there's an equivalent amount of this kind of lunacy on the right. There simply isn't. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but it is not as prevalent and is not nearly as respected by the mainstream right as this Kos stuff is by the mainstream left. The very fact that I read all the "right-wing" blogs, publications etc. and have not seen anything like this said proves that fact. This is the left today, the heirs of the Weather Underground, Kathy Boudin, the Red Brigades and Beider-Meinhoff. Never forget. Never forgive.

What a beautiful lesson in human psychology, one with real-world applications. Let's see: two sides get in a tussle, and a high-profile third party comments on it, deploring both sides rather lukewarmly, though one side more than others.

This pisses off the supporters of that side, and now they vow Dire Revenge™ on the third party. Although he did not in any way egg their enemies on, let alone join them, he also didn't condemn them to the Moonbats' satisfaction. They could go after their actual enemies, but they are many, and no one knows who they are. No one will care if Joe Schmoe from Kokomo is fired from his job because he dared to express his opinion to an advertiser. But if the great, the powerful, InstaPundit is inconvenienced, why, then, all will tremble before the might of the Moonbat Army.

Is this sounding at all familiar?

Dang, InstaPundit's remarks hurt Kos so badly that Kos actually got more traffic than InstaPundit! Ouch.

"I may disagree with what you have to say, but I shall defend to the death your right to say it".
Voltaire (Attributed)

My belief in this in NO way means that I give up my own right to say what I wish, and to criticise you if I disagree with your sentiments.

It seems that some have decided that they should be able to say whatever they so desire without repercussions... and that is not free speech. You can say what you wish, and I can do the same. If I decide to stop reading your blog, or stop seeing your movies... I get to do that. If I want to point out your statements to someone else... and they decide to do the same... that's the choice they get to make. Freedom of Speech does not mean freedom from accountability... Ask Trent Lott. Or, ask Rush about his ESPN job. If your mouth ends up biting you in the pocketbook (i.e. operation "Just Kos")- chalk it up to the price of freedom.

Say what you wish- but either stand by it in the face of criticism, or apologize if you realize you're wrong. Don't Whine. It belittles the right of Free Speech and those that have died to protect it.

This isn't what the whole Left has become, but there's definitely a strain of it out there. Jeralyn Merritt at TalkLeft actually says people like Kevin Drum and Oliver Willis should be ashamed of themselves for criticizing Kos.

http://www.wonkette.com/archives/kos_of_much_trouble_014711.php

I agree - Kos isn't evil, he's just wrong. He had no business (IMHO) posting so exensively on things he clearly knows next to nothing about. I wrote a little somthing to that effect myself.

I agree - Kos isn't evil, he's just wrong. He had no business (IMHO) posting so exensively on things he clearly knows next to nothing about. I wrote a little something to that effect myself.