A Small Victory

To call him coward would slander actual cowards. He is beneath my contempt.

If Kerry wins, then the dynamics of liberal and leftist politics will bring people like the Kos creature into positions of influence and power (even though I am sure that Kerry himself would never say or think such things). The left has become so vile that it cannot be trusted anywhere near the levers of power.

I feel dirty after wading through this story. What a cowardly scumbag this guy is.

I have to say that I sorta doubt the deleted from Google/Archive.org claim. How is that done?

Or has he prevented it from being archived?

"The man who gets drunk in peacetime is a coward. The man who gets drunk in wartime goes on being a coward."

-José Bergamín (1895–1983), Spanish writer. La cabeza a pájaros (Head in the Clouds), p. 84, Madrid, Cruz y Raya (1934).

Your 15 minutes is up.

He changed the comments and went on a "cleaning" mission because people sent his original comments to candidates advertising on his site and 3 out of 4 have pulled them so far.

Who is the fourth?

Star Tribune called Kos "left-leaning" in an article on BlogAds abck on March 20.

I wonder how the Star Tribune will profile Kos now, now that he's fallen on his face.

The lone holdout is http://mitakidesforcongress.com/

heh Her website even links to "quite a discussion" about the canidate on Kos' site. Guess she's a big Kos fan.

Someone complained to Kos' advertisers and two of them pulled their adds immediately.

I'm guessing that's the reason Kos went into cover my ass mode. Because he's mercenery!

Cackle!!! :)

"heh Her website even links to "quite a discussion" about the canidate on Kos' site. Guess she's a big Kos fan."

Yeah she spends a tidy sum every month on his site and he praises her. Comfy arrangement if you ask me.

I fully expect another wave of "NeoMcCarthism" shrieks within 24 hours.

Ryan, I stand corrected!

A memorial fund has been started:

Memorial Fund
PO Box 159
Moyock, NC 27958

Eeek you posted between me responding to your previous post. That's confusing! I meant I was corrected 3 out of 4 instead of 2 out of 4.

"Ryan, I stand corrected!"

I dare say your remarks were correct....just needed updating ;-)

To call him coward would slander actual cowards.

Oh for godsakes, people:

Slander is spoken. If it's written it's libel. Okay?
This didn't used to bother me, but since political debate has heated up in the last two and a half years it seems like people have started (mis)using the word constantly.

"You're an idiot."
"You slandered me!"

Keee-ryst.

You know what bothers me most?

This had nothing to do with principles. It was a political manuveur to diminish these Americans sensing the likely horror of the American people would at such barbarity. That's is the point. It's not his feeling about mercs or soildiers or anything. It was to dehumanize these guys because of the barbarity in which they were killed is likely to harden American hearts to the "plight" of Iraqis.

Fucking slimy piece of shit, is there anyone IN politics who isn't completely full of crap?

Re: Google Cache, Archives.org:
I doubt one day is enough for something to get cached, though I could be wrong.

Also, it seems as though Kos has a "no-cache" tag on his entries, so if that was there before the post, it's entirely possible that google would NEVER cache it. shrug

[N]ot only did he whitewash everything he said, then delete it from his site, he actually went through the trouble of deleting the offending post from the Google cashe and the internet archive.

Just like a fucking roach, when the lights go on he runs. By the way, has shitbag started whining yet about his dissent being crushed now that his advertisers have headed for the lifeboats? I figure we're due for a nice old-fashioned pants-wetting about "McCarthyism" within the next, oh, 24 to 36 hours or so.

He's their Most Important Blogger.

Okay, here again-- reality check, people.

Clearly I am the left's most important blogger. Seriously.

Oop-- sorry. Are we not doing humor in this thread?

I just realized when I lost my cool I may have violated certain profanity statutes. If so, please delete Michelle.

C Bassett wrote:

I have to say that I sorta doubt the deleted from Google/Archive.org claim. How is that done?

The following Google page explains how to get a page removed from their cache. Note that it can be done immediately by contacting Google:

http://www.google.com/webmasters/3.html

And one day is definitely enough to get a page cached, especially an active site like Daily Kos. I've found LGF pages in Google's cache almost immediately after they were posted.

"Clearly I am the left's most important blogger. Seriously."

Here, here!

(playing kingmaker is fun!)

Joshua, forgive my oversight I hereby give you the title of Most Important Leftie Blogger.

Ryan - profanity standards? I have none.

Actually, accusing him of covering his [insert mascot of Democratic Party here] is giving him too much credit. It's still there, just buried. To find it, follow this link to an older entry, then scroll down around 19 screens or so - or hit <ctrl>-f and then search for the word "screw."

My theory is that Kotze is trying to bury it without technically deleting it, so he can make a lame argument that he never really tried to cover it up. Another theory is that he's just incompetent.

What are you Neocons getting your panties in a twist for?

"Mercenary" presence to become more visible in Iraq. Lock and load, Kos!

Hmmm...I almost fell for it.

I had read about his comments this morning and was going to blog on it but I couldn't find them. I suspected a setup or perhaps someone had gotten a DU guttersnipe conflated with him or put one of his commentors down as HIM.

Then I did what I always do when bored on the net I came to Micheles....

And now Opinion Journal is outing this Orwellian Oaf too....

Holly Effing Eff!!! What a weasel!
How does one remove ones Google cache?
I'm particularly upset because I've met some of the guys at Blackwater. They are dammned fine people (the ones I've met). One of the dead is from my hometown...he leaves a wife...he leaves kids. And this KegO'S**t says swell!

Not only that...he's too spinless to stand by what he said.

What a waste of skin....

Y'know, just the other day Brad was jumping all over my case for not visiting lefty blogs; I told him I did. As a matter of fact, Kos was the main one I would read. (Well, occasionally read.) Usually, I'd see stupidity so profound there that science was unable to explain it, but at least I got to see what the (ahem) "other side" was saying.

And now, I have seen fully. There's nothing these turds won't say, nothing they won't believe, so long as it furthers their agendas. The victims in this case were trying to make things better in Iraq, and they were torn apart by savages for their troubles.

And that doesn't bother Kos in the slightest. His half-assed "apology" is almost as insulting, and the fact that he's attempted to destroy the record of his post shows his true nature.

'It exists!' he cried.

'No,' said O'Brien.

He stepped across the room. There was a memory hole in the opposite wall. O'Brien lifted the grating. Unseen, the frail slip of paper was whirling away on the current of warm air; it was vanishing in a flash of flame. O'Brien turned away from the wall.

'Ashes,' he said. 'Not even identifiable ashes. Dust. It does not exist. It never existed.'

'But it did exist! It does exist! It exists in memory. I remember it. You remember it.'

'I do not remember it,' said O'Brien.

I have fucking HAD IT with the left in this country. Y'know, I don't agree with Bush on all Issues (God no!), but I'm about three gawddam seconds away from marching down to republican HQ here in Orlando and volunteering.

These people and everyone who thinks like them must be kept as far away from the corridors of power as is possible.

Thanks for the info Mr. Johnson. I'd always thought it'd take a day or two to get something removed from Google.

Did someone catch a cached page of that post, then notice it removed? That's the bit I'm still unsure about.

Nothing, Tovarisch CMAN22. We have always been at war with Oceania.

The worst part is that pos kos is actually a veteran of the US Army. Judging from when he was in, some of those dead guys would have been in the Army at the same time. Hell, I was in the Army at the same time he was.

So those guys were actually comrades (in the general sense).

The guy is scum.

It would appear he didn't do a complete job on erasing the offending post. Go to here and search for screw them, and you'll still get the original post, with his name attached.

Hey, what do you know, his redirect trick only works on links. If you cut-n-paste the URL into the location bar, it takes you right there.

The marketplace speaks! Another reason the left can't stand capitalism. Bunch o rubes with money.

I neglected to add, one of the reasons I love you Michele, was the motivation behind linking Oliver on this.

Why are reasonable voices fair, and unreasonable voices unfair? I ask of both left and right. Up and Down? Down and Out?

I sound like Roger Waters now...s'cuse me.

and I mean love in a bloggy sorta way..

the other white meat wrote:

Slander is spoken. If it's written it's libel. Okay? This didn't used to bother me, but since political debate has heated up in the last two and a half years it seems like people have started (mis)using the word constantly.

I disagree. Not a legal opinion, but I think blogs and comments are conversational in nature, so the word "slander" is acceptable.

For example, "Zuniga is a cheap little chunder-blogger with the morals of a Bolshevik and the mental reflexes of a milk cow," that could be called slander rather libel - except for the fact that telling the truth is a complete defense against slander and libel.

Charles: Thanks for the head's up on the speed of google... I stand corrected.

...though if he has always had no-cache in his headers it wouldn't have mattered.

Conversational or not, Glen, the difference between slander and libel is the medium. This is a written, not oral, medium and, as such, it's Libel, not slander.

michelle,
the thread following the dk guest blogger post/poll is the thread where kos posted his comment (a little less than half-way down the page as i write this). i'm not sure that he ever deleted the comments if that is a good link... i'm not sure how reynolds and others got the early links putting kos's comment on top.

the pussy did modify his site that you can no longer rate his comment (the 2.53/28 by the comment title) people logged onto his site can rate any comment by clicking on the ratio. click his and you get linked to his defense. wasn't that way this morning when i troll-rated his ass...

Okay, so, obviously I have my own opinion about mercenaries that probably doesn't line up with that of other people here. This is not to say that I agree with Kos's initial post. I don't. I mean I really really don't. But I do draw a legal and ethical distinction between mercs and soldiers.

That said, I'm just going to play devil's advocate on one facet of this for a minute. Please don't let's everyone flame me at once. I'm just throwing this out--

Suppose this Kos guy just stepped on his dick? I mean, I've certainly done it. Commenting over at Ryan's blog I have, from time to time and in the heat of battle, written some really appalling things (people who think I'm a troll here should see some of the shit me and Ryan have said to each other over the last year). I generally admit I was wrong pretty quickly, but if I'd made those comments in my own blog there would be a certain temptation to just erase them. I probably wouldn't-- I once offended pretty much everyone I know (and I'm talking real life friends, not just e-friends) in my blog, and went ahead and left the post up and defended my behavior as best I could.

But.

We are still talking about a blog. The defining characteristic of a blog is that's it's subjective, right? And this Kos dude has stepped over bodies in a war zone. So he might have some pretty strong opinions about mercenaries, as a result of negative personal experiences. I mean, god knows my experiences with cops have given me some pretty strong negative opinions about law enforcement professionals in general. And I'm sure all y'all have something like that; lawyers, politicians, telemarketers-- something.

So yeah. I guess what I'm saying is:

1) Everybody says stuff they don't mean from time to time. With feelings running as high as they are right now, and publishing being as easy as it is, it's really easy to go too far in public.
2) The nature of a text environment makes it hard to admit when you're wrong, especially if you're into a lot of conflict and arguing. It's easy to believe that admitting a screw-up might be as damaging to your credibility as a cover-up.
3) I wonder the same thing about this incident that I wonder about a lot of similar incidents and the way they're handled on the internet, which is-- is this really the best way to spend your time? I mean, I could go over to Rush Limbaugh's website, or Pat Robertson's website and spend my time quoting their inflammatory bullshit on my blog, then hacking it apart in angry indignant detail. But why would I? I wouldn't be addressing any of Michele's reasons for supporting war, and she's the one whose opinion matters because she's a regular person with a working brain. Pat Robertson's not relevant to Michele, even if they do share a lot of the same opinions about the war. That's more along the lines of an unhappy coincidence than a political alliance. Pat Robertson's out in moonbat land. But me and Michele might be able to talk about all this and inform each other's opinions in a meaningful way.

And wow, that's some touchy-feely shit right there.

But I hope y'all see what I'm saying.

Now then, flame away.

Glen, as libel and slander are legal terms, your non-legal opinion means nothing.

Interesting. I missed the origional post... I thought the one that he replaced it with was bad enough when I linked to it in today's Spam! update.

I'm glad to see that post from Oliver. I dropped a "Thank you" in his comments. Increasingly, Willis and Demosthenes are among the few left bloggers I pay much attention to. Both of them at least have class, even if I seldom agree with their views.

Also glad to see that Frost reportedly pulled his ad from Kos. For a Texas Dem, Martin Frost has always been pretty good folks.

I'm not going to flame you, Joshua. I will not something though...

"We are still talking about a blog. The defining characteristic of a blog is that's it's subjective, right? And this Kos dude has stepped over bodies in a war zone. So he might have some pretty strong opinions about mercenaries, as a result of negative personal experiences." - Joshua Norton

I've stepped over bodies in a war zone. Based on a few things I've read on Kos, possibly in some of the same theatres as Zuniga. I spent a bit of time in South America, once. So what? I try to not piss on even the enemy's dead. It was suggested to me once that it was considered bad form - by a Rhodesian mercenary seargent. I've had pretty strong opinions on some mercs - there's a few I haven't liked, and there's a few I've considered friends.

There's a few US regular troops I've known that I haven't cared for as people - I wouldn't piss on their bodies either. When I was growing up on the streets, I had a number of reasons - some valid - to dislike cops. I still drive with my lights out in respect when a police officer is killed on the job.

When someone like me looks at Fallujah and explores possible responses, even when the trail of logic takes us down some pretty grim paths, that's a cold appraisal of what might be needed as a response to ensure against a repeat based on our experiental reality. It's not a cheering of the potential for destruction - it is not neccessary to hate the enemy in order to kill them, if needed. It's entirely possible to do something ruthless, and detest the neccessity for doing so.

Zuniga's posts were something else. I read them as dismissing the deaths of someone he considers less than human because of their profession.

Your mileage may vary.

I've been away most of the day so I missed this one. A few things: (1)Icons of any kind -- including bloggers -- seldom turn out to be totally what their image makes them out to be. Everyone has to use the bathroom (well, maybe I don't). (2)What he did was the equivelent of a old old "poison pen letter" that someone sends out. (3)The original post showed that ideology and emotion trumped judgement and analysis, which isn't a good sign if you write. Even editorial writers on newspapers can take a deep breath before they write (I know because I was a reporter for nearly 20 years). You can write an emotional post or article (we all do) but he crossed the line. (4)In the 21st Century we have to all make a choice which is: we ALL may be tempted to wish the worst for some folks with whom we disagree...and while we might have our secret little thoughts about who we'd like to see off the face of the earth (and need to work on erasing those thoughts) we can't make that POLICY. The screw them comment reflected the very worst of the far left attitude. He doesn't reflect the general consensus of people on the left towards these deaths. There are also people on the far right who foam at the mouth just as much at times. People need to take a deep breath. The people we should want to see burn are the terrorists...and a lot of the ones who have been killed are already burning down below (and they aren't surrounded by virgins). BOTTOM LINE: His comments are to his standing in blogging what Howard Dean's scream was to his standing in politics.

I'm not a Dem -- far from it -- but I'm going to donate a few bucks to Congressman Frost as a show of thanks and respect for their very quick action. Why don't some of y'all do the same?

http://www.martinfrost.com/

You are all fascist hypocrites! Do you care about poor people or people with AIDS? Where is your outrage for that? Yet anyone who doesn't shed a tear for three corporate thugs oppressing brown people is guilty of TREASON?

See this post for more:
www.nathannewman.org/log/archives/001623.shtml

Enjoy it while you can wingnuts. Civilized countries ban hate speech such as what you warbloggers and talk radio milita spew. In November we will elect Kerry and ban hate speech such as this once and for all.

[the following has been added by the ASV idiot patrol}

Wobby,

April Fools Day was two days ago, buddy.

(Troll.)

See, right there-- Wobby and I are, ostensibly, on the same "side". In fact, by taxing my powers of "trying to put the best face on what someone said" to their limit, I can even find ways to agree with him on some of the points that I think are valiantly trying to push their way up through the bubbling muck of his spasmodic textual ejaculations.
But mostly, I read that comment and I think, "Euch. How embarrassing. That's not going to help at all."

As far as the "Kos's post shows how he really feels," points-- It's possible. But even there, I'm not sure it's necessarily relevant. We all "really" feel stuff we're opposed to in our conscious minds. My girlfriend has an irrational hatred of spiders. But she knows they're good, so she carefully restrains herself from killing them in her garden. All the same, if one surprises her in the shower it's probably one dead spider.

Does anyone here really want to try and sell us on the idea that you don't have any irrational prejudices, or prejudices that are considered immoral by society at large (like racism or homophobia), that don't slip out from time to time?

Here again, I'm not particularly trying to defend Kos. I don't have much investment in his reputation one way or the other. What I'm saying is, what does it actually mean that he made this obnoxious comment on the web? Does it mean the left would set policy based on Kos's obnoxious comment? I'm about as left as you get, and I would actively oppose a policy that echoes Kos's sentiments. Does it mean that if John Kerry were president he'd have issued a statement like Kos's? I really don't think so. Does it even mean that Kos, if he woke up in the White House tomorrow, would set a policy based on his comments? I suppose it's possible, but I'm inclined to doubt it.

What I'm saying is, I think that Kos's comment has about as much to do with the main stream of the left and the anti-war movement as Pat Robertson's famous "Feminism isn't about equal right for women," comment has to do with the main stream of the right and the pro-war movement.

And, just as a supporting point-- like many educated lefties, I basically worship the Abraham Lincoln Brigade and they were, for most intents and purposes, mercenaries. Lefties who demonize the men who were killed in Fallujah because they were mercenaries clearly haven't thought through their position very well.

But, from a leftie perspective, things have been going very wrong for a very long time, and I can understand a certain level of frustration starting to come out in poorly thought out spewings. I don't necessarily condone it, but I'm not entirely innocent of it myself so I'm not ready to throw stones.

"...kos is actually a veteran of the US Army."

These guys don't believe any action is legitimate unless the government does it.

Wobby & Joshua:

I present to you one of Larry Nivens' Laws of Nature:

"Don't stand close to an unarmed man that is throwing shit at an armed man."

Looks like one more prominent lefty blogger has piled on Kos.

Yet another lefty blogger weighs in.

If you will fix the trivial oversights he mentions, Michele, your larger point still stands: How stupid and gullible does Kos think we are?

OK, Michele; this makes two Liberals against Kos. This sort of crap is insensitive, thoughtless, and inexplicable. It's one thing to think like this- and there is certainly no law against it- but to give voice to these thoughts is quite another. However, if you're going to voice an opinion like this, at least have the cojones to stand your ground. Deleting the evidence and then acting as if it never happened? Grow some balls, willya?

Clearly, Kos made a huge mistake. Hey, we all have at one point or another. Own up to it, apologize, and deal with it. Jeez, Kos, are you up for a job in the Bush Administration or what??

Jack,I never had any doubt that you would be against Kos on this.

You're still my favorite liberal.

I didn't read the original post, but I take your word for it that it was offensive and inexcusable. Even the supposed apology came very close to crossing the line.

However, I have also seen plenty of offensive and inexcusable posts on rightwing blogs (never yours; you have always been fair as far as I know) gloating about the death of the young American activist in Palestine, about the deaths of UN personnel in Iraq or about Iranian earthquake victims.

Maybe we should all stop to think before we post.

COMPLETELY Off Topic, but....

Having [finally] followed the link on your usernick, Joshua, and read your blog, you are going into my Favorites folder. ;)

Anyone who can write entertainingly about Halloween, dogs, cemetaries, getting shot by .22's, Norman Rochwell holocausts, Psycho Midgets from Texas, getting run over by elephants, and who styles himself "Joshua Norton II, Emperor of The United States and Protector of Mexico" gets my vote as "Blof of the Day". Very cool.

Hell, anyone who even knows about Emperor Norton is worth reading: it puts us into a very small group of wierdness trivia buffs. ;}

Thumbs up, Joshua. Keep up the good blog.

"Blog of the Day. Not "Blof". And "Rockwell". Proofreading is NOT my friend today...

Ironbear: Thanks for saying so.

contagious? outrageous!

"I tell people don't kill all the liberals. Leave enough so we can have two on every campus—living fossils—so we will never forget what these people stood for."

- Rush Limbaugh, Denver Post, 12-29-95

I'm conservative, I'm a blogger, and while I may not think Kos showed proper decency for the dead in saying what he did, neither did the military when it started putting inspirational propaganda in the mouths of the dead while their unrecovered bodies were still swinging dismembered over the streets of Fallujah.

He used the word mercernary, and it was harsh, but it was also fair.

And I think all of ya that are supposed to be conservatives are wrong for obsessing about this incident while our boys are out there dying on the streets of Iraq.

He may have gone a bit too far, but the response was unwarrented, mean spirited, and to be honest I think meant to be intentionally distracting.

So I'm standing up for Kos. He had a right to say what he did and express his mind, and attacking his sponsor links was hitting dirty beneath the belt.

I don't think it was cowardice to try to cover his ass at all. He suddenly realized that a lot of big guns were coming for him. I wish Kos had shown a little more universal humanitarian instinct, but he showed one bad moment of judgement, while I see my own conservative movement showing tons of it about way more deaths - American deaths - in this whole Iraq affair.

So if you want people willing to stand up for Kos, count me in.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz............Somebody wake when this blows over. What's that you say? InstaPundit took meth to keep that from happening? What else is new? It's not like we could trust Glenn's judgement before, and now he's hitting the pipe like Chris Rock in New Jack City.

I am a well-educated, left-leaning, registered Democrat, and for the record, everyone who I've talked to about Kos's statement agrees that it's wrong. Kos doesn't speak for me or others like me. What is more disturbing, though, than one man's being just plain wrong is the way that many conservatives are using Kos's statement as an opportunity to attack a whole group of Americans whose viewpoints they don't agree with. You and I, we are Americans. As a patriot, I see it as a duty that I share with you to address the issues, not call names. Open and informed discussion, free of ad hominem attacks, about how our country should be run is necessary in order for Americans to maintain our liberty and strength as a representative democracy. Oh, and a pony for everyone. I suppose that's just as likely.