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There's no fool like a moonbat fool

Please note: This blog will not be participating in any April Fool's Day pranks. Most people think I am full of shit to begin with, so there is no point in striving for that extra level of bs. Besides, I'm just not that clever. But I do have one April 1st related thing for you. A little April Fool's quiz.. Guess which quote from Democratic Underground is not real: [All quotes deal with the death of the four dead American contractors whose bodies were dragged through the streets and hung from a bridge in Fallujah] # Contractors wear hardhats and carry lunch pails - These guys are mercenaries. # Death to ALL mercenaries. The beer is on me. # Sad, if I were the wife I would have said hell no you won't go; the wife must have said great pay-check and the hubby, yeah, can buy a Hummer when I get back. # These swine were MERCENARIES. Paid Hessians. Murderers for hire. They're worse than Al-Queda. At least Al-Queda is fighting for a cause. I say "too bad, so sad, bye-bye." # They are Mercenaries - They are in it for the money, they are thugs and hoodlums, working outside the boundaries of the law. And yesterday the Resistance got even with 4 of them in a barbecue ceremony, that alas pushed the bounds of good taste. # mercenaries - These men are just serial killers with a good retirement plan. They deserve what they get. Answer below.
Suprise! They are all real. Every single one of those comments above were posted by real people on this DU thread. I don't even have to make this stuff up. The DU is a gold mine of people making jokes of themselves.

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» http://www.allahpundit.com/archives/000481.html from Allah Is In The House
"What's with that shit-eating grin, Allah?" Funny you should ask, Satan. On the state of the Isfahan [nuclear] plant, the Iranian official reported vaguely that the contractors had announced it was up and the facility functioning. He added: “In three... [Read More]

» The Democratic Underground Post Of The Day: Those Americans Who Died In Fallujah Deserved What They Got from Right Wing News
I have seen some sick threads at the Democratic Underground, but even I wouldn't have expected so many of them... [Read More]

» With "News" like this, who needs Fools for April? from Who Tends the Fires
The Laughing Wolf has some pointed thoughts on the Condi Rice testimony: A Terrible And Costly Mistake. I hadn't quite looked at it from that angle. Judging from the general blo... [Read More]

» Sickness from the Democratic Underground from Broken Masterpieces
Courtesy of RealClearPolitics. A Small Victory: There's no fool like a moonbat fool These are sick people. I would like to see other liberals renounce this, especially the leadership.... [Read More]

» The DU Post Of The Day: Huzzah For Killing Americans & Desecrating Their Corpses from Right Wing News
I have seen some sick threads at the Democratic Underground, but even I wouldn't have expected so many of them... [Read More]

» The DU Post Of The Day: Huzzah For Killing Americans & Desecrating Their Corpses from Right Wing News
I have seen some sick threads at the Democratic Underground, but even I wouldn't have expected so many of them... [Read More]

» All the "News" that's fit to rent... from Who Tends the Fires
This is gonna be a long one: it covers a wealth of ground. Don't bother if you're looking for good news and happy thoughts. There ain't no 47 year old virgins sipping avacado latte in their beige pajamas thinking Happy-Happy... [Read More]

Comments

disgusting

Can those people possibly be for real? Or are we all just shooting monkeyfish in a barrel?

I recall a thread like this when CIA officer Helge Boes died in Afghanistan - he was a year behind me in law school, and a mutual friend (a West Point grad) wandered over there and flamed those nuts good 'n crispy.

Michele, as guest liberal "asshole" let me say that I find all of those remarks from DU visitors to be repugnant and disgusting. It makes no sense to celebrate any death from a war, and perpetuates an US vs. them mentality that is no better than what Bush promotes when he says "either you are with them or you are with the terrorists."

So, I've decided to remove the DU link from my website.

That said, I wanted to mention these remarks that were posted on a conservative website. Can you guess which one? Here they are:

"if it's us or them..I pick them.
Carpet bomb the damn place"

"I hate to stereotype any religon but the one thing I got out of that course is that throughout the history of Islam they've been at war with someone."

"We beat Islam before. It took us 739 YEARS. I think the next time it will be a lot quicker"

"This looks like what the Palestinians do all the time."

These remarks are also disgusting, reflect a simplistic, historically ignorant worldview, and promote the idea that American lives are worth more than the lives of other human beings.

These are awful times we are living in, and I recommend we all read the following essay from a great American writer:
http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/making/warprayer.html

I am an American. American lives are worth more to me than other human beings. Period.

There's nothing historically ignorant about that worldview at all, Brad. Congratulations on removing DU from your reading list, but the fact you had it there at all is pretty revealing.

Hey Brad..
Damn right I said that..
know why?
My husband is over there..right now...

I've lived in the Middle East and I wouldn't ever consider yelling carpet bomb the region but I have absolutely no problem saying carpet bomb Fallujah.
None.

Brad, it's interesting that you picked the "Palestinians" quote out of the lineup. Why exactly is that disgusting? The groups supported by the PLO blow up people all the time for their cause, and that was what happened in Iraq.

"people making jokes of themselves"

I know what you mean, but this is no joke.

It's a shame that Ann Coulter devalued the word traitor, but that's what those DU commenters are.

Brad,
If you believe, as you posted in a previous thread, that we are an ignorant bunch of Right Wingers who think the solution to every problem is to shoot it.

Then what the hell are you still doing here? Trust me when I say this, no one wants to hear your overzealous rants. Not to mention the fact that you are being arrogant and believe yourself to be intelectually superior when you make statements like These remarks are also disgusting, reflect a simplistic, historically ignorant worldview.

If we are all so ignorant, what the hell are you, Mr. Intellect and I know more than anyone else on every subject, doing here?

Give us all a break man. Can't you understand that there are different points of view here? That some of these folks you are commenting on and with might very well be just as, if not smarter than you? And that these same folks have made their judgements on their own terms and with their own criteria?

You truly have some gall calling people ignorant and then continuing your endless myopic rantings. Bejus man. Call it a day already.

Is this your website, Val?

Do you spoeak for everyone here? Did I miss something? All of Michele's visitors voted you their spokesperson?

Is that arrogance or what?

Michele is welcome to ban me from her site.

I don't think I need to defend myself, but Val you are clearly out of bounds.

Jon, I picked the "Palestinians" quote because not all Palestinians living in the West Bank and Gaza are suicide bombers. And it is racist to lump them all in the category of terrorist murderers.

Actually, Brad, I did ban you yesterday. Twice. For a comment you made early in the afternoon.

However, the ban doesn't seem to be sticking or you have one of those every changing IPs.

The kind of comments that were made on DU are common knowledge to those who frequent blogs. However, most of those whose reading is limited to the print media have no idea that the left has become this vile. Try talking to a non-Internet-using liberal and tell him about this stuff...he will most likely look at you like you're making it up.

How can we get the information out to a broader audience?

Brad,

Im pretty sure theres quite a few folks here that agree with me wholeheartedly. Even Michele, who banned you twice and will probably ban you as many times as necessary agrees.

You have got to be shitting me. What the fuck is wrong with these people?

Have to agree Brad - you want to have an argument, fine. But if I disagree with you and all you got is "you're remarks are disgusting. simplistic. historically ignorant", then I'm not interested.

And for the life of me, I can't figure out why you are.

Here's a possible solution, involving 6 C-130s, 4 MOAB 21k pound bomb with GPS targeting, and one MOAB shell.

One C-130 flies over Fallujah, dropping leaflets warning clearly that four vacant areas 5 miles to the north, south, east, and west of town will be bombed in one hour.

At the end of that hour, 5 C-130s fly over, drop the live bombs and the bomb shell. The empty bomb shell is targeted for the center of town.

The four are set to explode simultaneously. The resulting shockwave should seriously get the attention of the inhabitants of Fallujah.

On the MOAB shell - "That was a demonstration. There will be no food convoys, no electricity, and no assistance rebuilding until all who participated in the deaths are turned in to Iraqi police, alive or dead.

You mistook kindness and compassion for weakness. You think that the people there to help are weak and can be attacked with impunity.

You are wrong.

Actions like that will not be tolerated - and will result in Fallujah becoming a graveyard for Iraqis.

You can cooperate and rebuild Iraq for a better future than you can imagine - or be destroyed if you do this again."

That MIGHT get their attention.

J.

If the owner of the site has tried to ban you from commenting twice, the honorable thing to do is simply stop commenting. Got honor, Brad?

I picked the "Palestinians" quote because not all Palestinians living in the West Bank and Gaza are suicide bombers. And it is racist to lump them all in the category of terrorist murderers.

Islam is the official religion of the new Palestinian constitution. Palestinian Christians are second-class citizens

A majority of Palestinians support Hamas and their tactics of directly targeting innocent people for the crime of living in Israel.

These are Hamas’ goals.

Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it."

"The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. "

"There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."

When we tell the truth about these homicidal reactionaries, are we racist?

Michele,

I am currently stationed overseas, and when I come onto your site, it can be from any one of 22 computers. Will this cause a problem?

Also, should I have asked before posting my first response? My computer etiquette is severely lacking.

Thanks

I guess correctly.

errg! "guessed"

I've posted a lot of background information on mercenaries in Iraq on my weblog:

http://www.kathryncramer.com/wblog/archives/000481.html
and
http://www.kathryncramer.com/wblog/archives/000483.html

Previous commenter is a Robert Fisk disciple, so don't bother. Just FYI.

So true Eric. These people live in some sort of fantasy world.

whistles low

If I were a contractor working in Fallujah, I'd be packing heat too. That wouldn't make me a soldier of fortune.

Why are these comments disgusting? Lets look at them

"if it's us or them..I pick them.
Carpet bomb the damn place"

The most important would in this comment is "if". If someone must die, me or you, I'd prefer it be you. I'd prefer that no one die, but that is not an option given in the comment, now it it?

"I hate to stereotype any religon but the one thing I got out of that course is that throughout the history of Islam they've been at war with someone."

Why is this disgusting? It appears to be true. Can you name a specific period of time in which no Islamic nation was at war?

"We beat Islam before. It took us 739 YEARS. I think the next time it will be a lot quicker"

Again, this is true, why is it disgusting? Because we're not at war with all of Islam? Until those silent hordes of moderates start opening their mouths, assuming the worst from ALL of Islam is only good sense.

"This looks like what the Palestinians do all the time."

Palestinians DO do things like this all the time. Is the generalization what you find disgusting? People use generalizations all the time, should we stop because you find it disgusting?

I don't see how any of these comments compare to the ones Michele posted. None of them express delight at death. The ones that speak about violence do so with reluctance or retailation as a focus. One even apologises for it's sentiment.

Frankly, I find your moral equivalence disgustimg.

I must be one of those simplistic types. Radical Islamists have threatened my children. I vote for killing radical Islamists before they kill my children. I value the life of just one of my children more than the lives of every single radical Islamist on Earth.
If it takes the killing of every last one of them, fine with me.
I may be ignorant of history. I must be, for I know of not one single incident of a dead radical Islamist killing someone's children.
Frankly, I wouldn't mind a standup fight with the DU types either. They seem to be spoiling for a fight. I'll have something in my hands. They've been threatening this fight for years. I wonder how they'll like it.

Civilian security contractors for the government are nothing new. I've worked in American embassies and consulates in the Middle East and Africa and all had private security. The Wackenhut Corporation is one of the largest contractors. The Marines handle the security inside, the contractors, the outside.

DU defies parody. From their "instantly ban all who say anything even slightly conservative" policy to the hordes of frothing moonbats willing to blame the US for everything including sunspots, there's nothing funnier that can be written about them than what THEY write. It's a black hole of stupidity.

JLAWSON:

I like your plan. If only the administration had the balls to do it.

Fallujah is a cancer on Iraq. The Tikriti and Sunni that inhabit the place are no better than Saddam's thugs. If they love death so much let us give it to them. Take JLawson's plan and retarget the MOABS to the center of town, spaced about a klick apart. No shell/leaflets needed. I think they'll get the message.

Well the problem is that people want to see terrorists as fanatics. Maybe in our eyes, but we in the western world need to wake up and quit pussy footin around, the Koran VALIDATES and VENDICATES many of their actions. The main muslim advocacy group in the US condemed the mutilation + dragging around corpse ect. However this "moderate" group had absolutly no problem with the deaths of americans, civilian americans. Hey if those guys got killed in a car full of ill gotten gains or something else, fine thats tough for them. The guys were probably guarding engineers or something, PEOPLE WHO WILL MAKE THERE COUNTRY BETTER....FIX STUFF!!! Again, many (not all mind you) see absolutly nothing to gain from working with infidels, and the koran states, dont work with infidels or take their help. Shit guys, we are trying to let them use us and they can't!! Again, we need to wake up and see while there may be liberal muslims (known in the west as moderate) but the majority are conservitive muslims in the middle east....which = convert, pay the brutal jizya or just DIE, and that means they come ask you. They dont just sit in their lands, the come to YOUR house (country) and start gansta shit. People say weve been using these folks, how ignorant can you be. WE PAY for the oil, and it aint cheap. The have nationalized how much american equipment (aka STOLE). Dont carpet bomb em.....that would make it another chechnya (what ever the russians are doing guys DONT DO THAT would be a good stratagy for the war in Iraq)but i do like the four bombs idea by homey up there.

But remember .......

"And one should bear in mind that there is nothing more difficult to execute, nor more dubious of success, nor more dangerous to administer than to introduce a new order to things; for he who introduces it has all those who profit from the old order as his enemies; and he has only lukewarm allies in all those who might profit from the new. This lukewarmness partly stems from fear of their adversaries, who have the law on their side, and partly from the skepticism of men, who do not truly believe in new things unless they have personal experience in them." -- Niccolo Machiavelli

And honestly the majority of the people at DU are moraly empty and the biggest joke, and at the same time these people are ruining our country.

REMEBER TO VOTE@!!!!!!!

I was going to guess #2 on the idea that you have to have a job to buy that many beers.

Pathetic.

‘O you who believe! Take not the Jews and Christians as awliya’ (friends, protectors, helpers), they are but awliya’ of each other. And if any amongst you takes them (as awliya’) then surely, he is one of them. Verily Allah guides not those people who are the Zaalimoon (oppressors).’ [EMQ 5:51]

I can't for the life of me figure out why it's "moral equivalance" to point out that it sucks that people are dying regardless of their nation of origin, but somehow it's hateful and "moonbat" to point out that the "civilians" who died are actually mercenaries.

I would simply like our media and our government to give us the whole truth and let us decide what we feel about it, rather than cloaking reality in half-truths and obfuscation. If the people who were killed yesterday WERE mercenaries, which appears to be the case, it's no less of a tragedy to me, but it does certainly frame the tragedy in a different context.

Can I ask how any of you would feel if a bunch of "those people" came here and occupied our cities, carrying around weapons of intimidation in plain sight? I'm certainly not justifying violence, because I would have a difficult time abiding violence even in that situation - but I don't understand why the people who are righting these impassioned posts about how wrong this act is can't stop for a minute and think about the atrocity and mindset that would inspire such grotesque violence. Think. I mean, seriously...think about it. People don't just do that shit without reason. Don't you think it would be in our best interest to figure out WHY it's happening before we make more threats and introduce more violence to an already violent and volatile situation?

I think it's really fucking shitty when anyone dies. And I'm really tired of hearing this arrogant "us v. them" bullshit. Let's try cultural acceptance 101. People who were born in Iraq - even people in the Iraqi military - had no choice in their origin of birth. You were born here by accident. More and more this site is taking on this weird Social Darwinist tone that is about as creepy to me as you all seem to think DU is.

Cultural acceptance 101??????????????????

All Iraqis must register for that class immediately. And Saudis and Syrians. etc.

You get the idea??

Here's an idea that might solve several problem.

1)Draft American humanities professors
2)Send to the to Fallujah to teach tolerance and multicuturalism to Baathists and assorted fanatics

Think about the possible outcomes...

Nice piece today by Mark Steyn about this, including the fact that the NGOs who tried to help rebuild Iraq have fled, leaving only those derided as mercenaries.

http://www.steynonline.com/index2.cfm?edit_id=69

David is on to a good thing. Maybe they could have another group go to Saudi Arabia and bring some Bibles with them as part of the class.

Am I the only one here who's teeth are gritting partly because I don't care for the term "mercenary" being used as an insult by these pricks? I've known more than a few pretty damned decent private soldiers in my life.

They're managing to slam both the dead, the US military, and honest hired guns in one breath. I'd call it "talent" if I didn't have other words for them.

Grrf.

They're just trying to inflame people Bear, conjure up images of Rambo nuts running around the country killing babies.

I suppose the missionaries killed last week were 'hired killers' too.

It's Fallujah for crying out loud. As events have demonstrated, it's dangerous there.

Michele's right - there is no talking to nutcases. Let them consume themselves in their bitterness while we get on with the necessary work of giving these people their lives back.

Ironbear,

You're definitely not the only one. That was what my phrase "derided as mercenaries" was about. So they were getting paid. So what? They were doing good. And the result is that some barbarians killed them and defiled their corpses.

Do you honestly mean to tell me that you don't understand the implications of our government hiring mercenaries to do the job in Iraq? Seriously? You don't see any problems with the privitization of military actions?

If that is the case, it appears that the citizens of Iraq, at least, feel differently. Perhaps it would be a good idea to find out why.

There was no bitterness or derision in my comment here. Just sadness and fear for our collective future.

Here are some hints:

::I don't think it's a secret at all that private firms are contracted to augment the military's forces... but so what?::

The "so what?" is actually three things:

1) Rules: Armed, non-military combatants/personnel are not covered by the Geneva Convention and can treated however their enemy/opposition wants to treat them. Contract combatants/personnel are not bound by standard military rules of conduct or engagement, but by whatever standards are established by their employer. While most companies probably have pretty good standards, it's likely that some don't, and even those who do have limited control (bad performance reviews, maybe?) of their "forces" in the field.

2) Policy Issues: The U.S. military is trained and expected to implement or manage U.S. policy on the ground at a tactical level. There is a clear command structure that enforces and ensures this. Private contractors implementing and managing U.S. policy on the ground should concern anyone who pays taxes.

3) Why Have A Military Issues: If the Department of Defense can't supply its own forces, train its forces or protect its forces, what the hell are they doing? We're paying companies like Blackwater (who apparently do a helluva a good job, mind you) a lot of money ($39 million was their last pre-Iraq contract from DoD) to do the work of our military.

This site has a lot of information about why we might want to care that our government is hiring mercenaries.

Hey, I'm all for bringing our troops home alive and safe, but I am wary of what the proliferation of mercenaries will cause.

IMHO, Fallujah has just earned an orderly security screening and evacuation of all residents to a comfortable refugee camp, prior to an announced and televised deployment of a MOAB.

"Do you honestly mean to tell me that you don't understand the implications of our government hiring mercenaries to do the job in Iraq? Seriously? You don't see any problems with the privitization of military actions?"

As someone who's been around the trade, and around professional military most of my life, I possibly see the implications as well as anyone. I just don't happen to think that all of the implications are the downside that you seem to see. Hired guns have been a factor of war going back to Thermoplye. They do jobs such as protecting private sector installations that regular military is forbidden to contract for, they - as they are right now in Iraq - often get hired to take the place of NGO's who can't or won't operate in war zones to distribute food and aid, protect hospitals, and protect private installations like factories and businesses, as well as bodyguards.

You know, NGO's... like the Red Cross and the UN organizations that fled Iraq with their tails between their legs when they found that opposing the Iraqi war didn't prevent them being targets. People like Blackwater and Northbridge employees get hired trying to protect various relief organizations, like those being sent in by churches and privately funded charities.

The ones that aren't, like, cowards, yanno?

"Mercenary" is not a four-fucking-letter word, and I doubt that you'd say it to my face with that kind of implict fucking sneer, Dru. Not twice. A very high percentage of Amerinds go into private service - mercenary service - when there's not a national war on - they are not cowards, they are not murderers, they are not thugs, they are not butchers, they are not dishonorable men and women, and you will not fucking sneer at them around me.

We we deathly level here?

I lost two old friends in Rwanada who were on contract to protect missions, and they elected to maintain contract rather than bug out. They died while UN blue fucking helmets stood around with their thumbs up their asses a few clicks away because no one was willing to "authorise" them to do anything.

I am not obligated to have the professions of men and women like that sneered at by you or anyone.

I'll hazard a guess that you don't have a major problem with "the privitization of military actions" by France in the form of La Legion Etrangierre? Or by Britian in the form of the Ghurkas?

Just, like, ummm... only when it's the USA, 'cause, like, well, "everyone knows" the US is like, EVIL?

FUCK you, Drublood.

Wait...*I'M* the one who is bitter and hateful?

Thanks for the diatribe Ironbear. I understand your feelings about it now. Like I said, though, it appears that the Iraqis perceive things differently. And, like my old boss used to tell me, Perception is Reality.

I also notice you didn't respond to any of the points in my follow-up post. And here I thought it was just us lefty chicks who put emotions before facts. Go figure!

Gee, Michele, I really think your new policy encourages respectful dialog. I'm so glad you implemented it!

And, forget about the perception of the people of Iraq for a minute, and ask yourself...if the perception of the people of the United States would be positive and welcoming towards the deployment of mercenaries in Iraq, why isn't it being shouted with relief from all news sources and government agencies?

My point is that the citizens of our country have a right to know who is fighting this war, who they are accountable to, and what the rules of engagement are. Just like we have a right to know PRECISELY why we are fighting the war, how much it will cost, and how long we will be fighting it.

Approximations are OK, but lies and vaguery is not.

The truth of the matter is that these guys were folowing the rules of engagement--they didn't shoot first. They were attacked.

Wait...*I'M* the one who is bitter and hateful?

No, just annoyingly smug, all hidden behind a mask of sadness whilst you croak the "yes it was terrible, BUT they were mercenaries and that's icky pooper bad" excuse for the mob's actions in Fallujah.

(BTW: Odd, the only use of the word "bitterness" besides yourself was Dave in Texas saying: "Let them consume themselves in their bitterness while we get on with the necessary work of giving these people their lives back." He didn't mention you, and the subject is the DemocraticAsylum's denizens comments on the recent murders, including praise of such. Why did you think he must have meant you?)

Oh, you're quite welcome to the diatribe. Anytime. ;]

Did you bother checking the sources behind a lot of Kramer's "facts" and where the funding for a few of those organizations comes from?

ANSWER, CAIR etc? There's a lot of interesting info on those floating about.

"why isn't it being shouted with relief from all news sources and government agencies?"

Possibly the news agencies reporters aren't quite as knowledgeable about the private military communities as they could be: reporter ignorance of military topics is endemic.

That one is an interesting question: I doubt seriously based on the past three years that "sheltering Bush from scrutiny" has anything to do with it.

I'll address one other, which personally I'd figured would be obvious to anyone with a working knowledge of recent US history and on the military:

"3) Why Have A Military Issues: If the Department of Defense can't supply its own forces, train its forces or protect its forces, what the hell are they doing? We're paying companies like Blackwater (who apparently do a helluva a good job, mind you) a lot of money ($39 million was their last pre-Iraq contract from DoD) to do the work of our military."

Takes time to train, fund and equip military troops, professionals, not green troops. Prior to 2000, our military, military intelligence, bases, hardware programs, recuiting, staffing, and cadre were at an all time low because of cuts and decisions made during the Clinton era. It takes more than 1 year to recover from that and rebuild, it takes more than four years.

In the interim, if the alternative is having no capability while you're rebuilding it, or contracting, contracting is the lesser of evils. $39 million's not bad for a merc contract. It's peanuts for training and equipping national military forces during war.

Again, even a breif acquaintance with both recent political history and with military logistics would have answered that one for you. Why should I or anyone else do your homework?

My point is that the citizens of our country have a right to know who is fighting this war, who they are accountable to, and what the rules of engagement are. Just like we have a right to know PRECISELY why we are fighting the war, how much it will cost, and how long we will be fighting it."

1) Troops from at last count 70-90 nations, plus assorted Iraqi police and obviously several private military corporations.

2) In a militarised zone, even the private military is accountable ultimatly to the regions governing body, in this case the US Military, which means quite a bit more accountability than if the area was under UN jurisdiction. The NGO troops are also accountable to their commanders and contractors, and those aren't as lax accountability standards as ANSWER would like you to believe.

3) Based on the photos out of Fallujah, the rules of engagement are one sided, and a lot less barbaric than the enemies, else the bodies being drug through the streets and hanged in those photos would have been Sunni.

Maybe it's time to even up those RoE's for the targeted side.

4) We're fighting the war because starting in 1973, the Islamic Jihadi has declared war on us, ultimately leading to 3000 dead in NYC in 2001. We've fought Iraq specifically because in the ME, Iraq occupies a strategic position analagous to the Little Round Tops. If the refference means anything to you.

5) Approximation: As much as it costs. Wars are expensive. "Vaguery" is inevitable unless you have a crystal ball to see the future, in which case you should be consulting it and telling us.

6) Approximation: Until it's done. Which if the DUites have their way, will be when we're embracing dhimmitude. "Vaguery" is inevitable unless you have a crystal ball to see the future, in which case you should be consulting it and telling us.

Realistically, given the nature of CI and guerilla Warfare, probably 30-40 years unless there's another major attack on US soil and some of it is shortcutted by turning the bulk of the ME into glass.

All of those are things that you could figure out with a bit of applied logic, just as you could browse about a bit and find out what's behind Kramers sources - they're not precisely hidden.

Problem is, I don't think that they're answers you want to look for, or you'd have found them and/or figured out the logic based ones by now.

Because she's a self-centered twat with a horrifically skewed world view.

Feel free to swat me for being bad, Michele, but this cow brings out the worst in me.

Michele already knows she can swat me via email, comments, anywhere's else she wants to if she thinks I've gone over the line.

Or hell, even for no other reason than because she wants to: it's her site. I'm just eating bandwidth like Dru is.

Heh. Patrick covered it succinctly with: "just annoyingly smug, all hidden behind a mask of sadness" Nicely stated, Patrick.

Well Im shocked. I would have paid good money better against any of the fruitloops at the DU being able to spell Hessian much less use it correctly in a sentence.

Btw, for all you 'mercenary' experts out there, was Ernest Hemmingway a mercenary for driving an Italian ambulance during WWI? You know, that war before WWII (which was the one before Vietnam... yeh I knew that one would ring a bell).

Ironbear, if we can anchor the line with another Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain, we won't have to worry about losing Fallujah.

And I've met quite a few men in the 4th ID who are up to the challenge.

People say all of this, yet I was punished for noting that the ninth sura of the Koran seems clearly to say that unbelievers should be killed, or at least humiliated and robbed. I was generalizing about Muslims, you see.

Technically, Mark, he would have been. Legally... ??? Ehhh... depends on wether the DoD would have wanted to prosecute him as "A US citizen serving in a forien military or under a forien flag".

Last time I had pertinent reason to check [Late '84], that was how the USMCJ defined a soldier of fortune... regardless of wether you collected a paycheck for it or not.

With our DoD subcontracting to private militaries, evidentally there's been a few changes in policy towards mercs since the mid/late '80's - I doubt that everyone contracting to Northbridge, say, is of a nationality other than US.

Chamberlain? Lieutenant Colonel, Colonel, 20th Maine Volunteers? Congressional Medal of Honor winner? Oh hell yeah... a few of him wouldn't hurt. ;]

By the way, Dave - hello from a fellow Texican. I was born and raised in Dallas, and currently live southwards of Big-D.

Drublood,

Thanks for the diatribe Ironbear. I understand your feelings about it now. Like I said, though, it appears that the Iraqis perceive things differently. And, like my old boss used to tell me, Perception is Reality.

Since most the reports I have been hearing, yes even those beyond Fox News, have been saying that most Iraqis are glad that the United States got rid of Saddam and believe that their lives are going to be better over the coming years, how is it that you so easily lump them all into "the Iraqis" together? Falluja was second only to Tikrit in having been favored by Saddam. Ask a Kurd or a Shiite, and they might come closer to perceiving this atrocity with the moral outrage at the death of foreigners that the DU seems to demand for the US.

Howdy Iron.

Wasn't born in Texas, got here as quick as I could. Grew up in North Dallas. Live about 2 1/2 hours south now.

Drublood,

If you want to see why we have civilians doing the work of the military, look at this site -

http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/circulars/a076/a076.html

Neat. ;) That makes us roughly an hour and a half of bein' neighbors. Pleased to meet you.

I spent most of my growing up split between the Oak Cliff end of Dallas, and staying with relatives in Oklahoma, and then wandered around a lot after I hit 17. Mexico, Brazil, Pennsylvania, Wyoming, Arizona, Colorado... finally setteled back here about 15 years ago.

IRONBEAR.. and others who would like to know what many Iraqi folk think of what happened in Fallujah, I'd like to point you to a piece written by Ali, and posted by his younger brother Omar - on their family blog. It speaks for itself, in no uncertain terms - and it makes me proud that we moved to give freedom to men like this in Iraq.

See 'Crime and Punishment' here

Thanks. Read it just a bit ago, Ron. Good stuff. I've been browsing the Iraqi blogs this evening after getting back to the computer.

Iraq the Model is in my Iraqi folder - I want to see what an Iraqi thinks on something, I don't ask people like Drublood or Kramer for the latest media talking points, I go read Ala or several others like Ali, or I email acquaintances in Iraq that I've made over the past two years.

Omarr's article will be linked in tomorrow's DailySpam! edition at our site. It... ameliorates my "Wall off Fallujah and FAE it" gut reaction a bit. A bit.

Just poppin in again....Unfortunatly it has been reported that south africans merc's are being used as well. Maybe i am just hateful but having an ex sgt from USMC or lt from british SAS would make me feel good, but some merc from the land of hand chopin + an ex aparthid state would kinda piss me off, ditto that the USA would think its ok. Ive read alot of peoples open, some, even while being opposed to mine, are thougtful or at least thought provoking, but the problem is that they make these guys sound like roving bandits or that they are taking joint military actions. They are guards, thats it, with limited access and interaction with the public, so no USA gov policy really isnt represented by them nor does it have to be. Ironbear go read the http://messopotamian.blogspot.com, guy has to be kurdish, he likes the USA waaay to much. Or maybe we just gave him a really good job for once in his life and he doesnt worry about secret police beating his ass. Naaaahhhh it just a zionist plot.

O you who believe! Take not the Jews and Christians as awliya’ (friends, protectors, helpers), they are but awliya’ of each other. And if any amongst you takes them (as awliya’) then surely, he is one of them. Verily Allah guides not those people who are the Zaalimoon (oppressors).’ [EMQ 5:51

UglyAm, I do hope I didn't give the impression that I think there's no such thing as trash mercs - I don't for a minute think that. Those have been a part of the scene as long as there's been sellswords. Some SA's and Rhodesians are pretty ruthless, so are some of every nationality. Bad with the good, in all professions.
It's possible I did give that impression, rereading... Dru had me a bit irked for a bit.

Messopotamian's on my reading list, however I noticed when I checked today that he hadn't posted on the topic du jour, so I skipped past to the next Iraqi weblog. I've noticed a lot of the webloggers there are relatively pro-US to one degree or another...

Do you think it's all a zionist plot? Egads! Them zionists are a lot more powerful than we've been givin' 'em credit for. snicker

>If that is the case, it appears that the >citizens of Iraq, at least, feel differently. >Perhaps it would be a good idea to find out why

Drublood: Do you strive to be a nihilist and a traitor or does it just come naturally? Since when are some sickos in Fallujah what "appears to be the citizens of Iraq"? Do you or do you not see the disingenuousness of claiming that the mad killers of Fallujah represent "Iraqi citizens"? Are you capable of distinguishing between the various factions and tribes? Answer this please.

I am asking honest questions, and have not been smug for a minute, but I guess it's easier to discount my questions if you can assign hatred and vexation where there is none.

I have no idea what the moral make-up of a mercenary is, and I did not assert an opinion. Nor have I done any sneering, textually or otherwise, IMPLICIT or otherwise. Nor is my concern or sadness for the deaths of anyone, INCLUDING (and perhaps ESPECIALLY) the four who were mutilated in Fallujah fake or "a mask."

And, I can't account for the opinions of all Iraqi citizens. I should have added the qualifier "some" prior to that phrase. Still, I am reading so many conflicting accounts of how the citizens of Iraq feel - I'm no more inclined to believe anyone here when they state or imply that it can somehow be known that all or most Iraqis are happy that we are there. There is definitely counter-balance to that theory, and none of us knows who is right. My point remains that people should not have to dig to find information about mercenaries and our use of them.

I'll remind you that I stated very clearly that I feel the atrocities that were committed in Fallujah were tragic, and that they are no less tragic because they were committed upon mercenaries. They would be no less tragic if they were committed upon anyone. But there is a context there that hasn't been addressed. And I think it would be wise for us as individuals, and for our government, to address this context. Like I said, people don't just wake up in the morning and decide to commit this kind of violence for no reason. It's obvious to me that this was a message that was being sent, and I'm not sure I understand why it's not in our best interest to figure out what that message is before we talk about responding to it by "rounding them up and bombing the shit out of them" or whatever the other suggestions here have been.

And how is it hateful and smug and sneering for me to point this out, and yet there are STILL people calling for more violence? That worries me most of all. If you really feel this was a select few terrorists who aren't really representative of the citizenry of Iraq, why on earth would you even be tempted to respond by punishing the vast majority of citizens who disagree with this action? Why would you even speak that out loud?

The only thing I can come up with is either those of you who are advocating that we bomb them into a parking lot really DON'T believe that the people who committed this atrocity are a minority, OR you simply feel that all Iraqis are subhuman. Either way, it might be a good idea to think about how this attitude is perceived by others. And, you know, understand that the internet is public, and this is one site of probably many others who are advocating the same bullshit. It doesn't serve you well to talk about how hateful, bitter, and violent the "looney left" is, and then immediately turn around and advocate or condone hateful, bitter violence.

But there is a context there that hasn't been addressed. And I think it would be wise for us as individuals, and for our government, to address this context. Like I said, people don't just wake up in the morning and decide to commit this kind of violence for no reason. It's obvious to me that this was a message that was being sent, and I'm not sure I understand why it's not in our best interest to figure out what that message is before we talk about responding to it by "rounding them up and bombing the shit out of them" or whatever the other suggestions here have been.

There is a difference, Dru, between understanding the context and simply not accepting the conclusions that have already been reached about said context.

I'm not knocking you for trying to understand why we're there, why they hate us, etc. I think that's a responsible thing to do. I, too, have wondered about this, and I supported going into Iraq, and I still support our actions there. But, I have to ask, what is going to be a good enough answer for you? Or are you going to accept an answer that doesn't agree with your preset conditions of what is and is not right in the world?

Violence is never right. Murders are never right. But there sure are a lot of people out there who want to kill you and me for nothing other than being an American. And this includes the people in Fallujah who firebombed the consultants vehicles and then mutilated the bodies for their own amusement. Because that's what it seemed like: they were laughing and cheering and have a damn good time, so it must have been fun for them to do this, right? You seem to think that if we got out of Iraq, everyone would love us again, everyone would be happy and we would never be attacked again. I hate to tell you this, and I don't mean this in a facetious or cruel way, but you need to grow up. You need to look at this from a rational stance and understand that they're not rational. Was Saddam Hussein a "rational" man? One who used logic to decide the course of his country? Were his sons and his officers "rational" men? Did they use logic when they raped and mutilated for their own gain---and most of the time for their own amusement? No. A rational person would never do these things. I certainly wouldn't. You wouldn't either. We're both rational people. The difference is is that I understand that they're not rational; you bring them up to your level and try to search for some sort of rationality in their behavior when there is none and there never will be.

They want to kill us, Dru. I'm sorry for it. And I'm sorry you want to give them the benefit of the doubt. I am not going to give them that. A very close friend of my husband is a Kuwaiti national who woke up on August 2nd to see Iraqi soldiers outside of his house, hotwiring his car. That was the least of what happened to him that day. He spent the next nine months in captivity in Iraq and has been harmed irreparably by the experience. If I hadn't already known that Saddam and his ilk were horrible, Ahmed's stories would have convinced me.

Give no quarter to people who would give you none.

"And it is racist to lump them all in the category of terrorist murderers.

Posted by: Brad at April 1, 2004 10:56 AM "

Why is it racist? We inappropriately generalize constantly, left and right. It's a small mind which is drawn to racism to explain universal methods.

Well said Kathy excellent post

Aren't these mercs just basically providing site security for certain types of facilities, and also serving as armed bodyguards? The way some folks are going on about "private armies doing the duty of the military," you'd think Wackenhut and Blackwater are out there in Apaches and Abrams tanks fighting set-piece battles with enemy armies or something.

By these standards of "doing the duty of the military," you might as well say any American city with a police force is under military occupation, and any industrial site with armed guards is under martial law.

Also, is my memory failing me, or didn't some of those aid workers who were bugging out of Iraq last fall say that they refused the protection that the military offered them because they didn't want to be seen as allying with the occupiers or some such? So why is providing personal and site security suddenly some kind of duty that only the military is allowed to provide?

You guys are just now figuring out the DU is full of Marxist, un-American scum? Took me a short 5 minute read there last year when I figured THAT out. Conspiracy theories, wishing death to American soldiers, the president and John Ashcroft, the debasing of capitalism, plots to steal ballot boxes.. these people are pure scum, and I wish they'd be investigated by the CIA and the FBI. Wishful thinking, I know, but just look at the comments made in the last few days by them about the Fallujah incident. Folks, this is nothing new at the DU.

Aren't these mercs just basically providing site security for certain types of facilities, and also serving as armed bodyguards? The way some folks are going on about "private armies doing the duty of the military," you'd think Wackenhut and Blackwater are out there in Apaches and Abrams tanks fighting set-piece battles with enemy armies or something.

Heh. I was wondering when they'd just hire Tagon's Toughs. ;-)

sigh

As I frothed around the house this week about Fallujah, I tried to imagine a more sinister, evil group of people than the ones who participated in that savagery, only to conclude that they didn't exist.

Unfortunately DU, Kos, et al proved me wrong. Very wrong.

On another note, slightly ot, I have to admit that with the inception of this new posting policy, one of the first things I do when I open up comments is scroll thru them to see if the "you suck" bunny has shown up. I love that bunny.

Drublood is right, angry statements calling for all kinds of creative revenge were made in all the "rightist" blogs in the immediate aftermath.
Those comments were wrong.
The "official military war" is over. The proper response now is to demonstrate civility and conduct the response as a "police action" and it's better if the Iraqi local government and police are involved in it.
Terrorism is a tactic of war meant to invite violent reprisal. The terrorist act works if the violent reprisal is made, probably against the wrong people. Thus the uninvolved, or fence-sitters may recoil and join the terrorists.
It is probable that the rejoicers in the photos were not the perpetrators, who are long gone. The rejoicers are being reprimanded by local clerics.
We want to find the terrorists and win over the rejoicers. Otherwise the terrorists win.
It's a very tenuous situation there in the end-game of winning the peace and accomplishing the final objective, a free, representative government assuring human rights, women's rights, religion rights, speech rights. We definitely don't want a 3-way civil war to destroy all that has been accomplished so for.
And a violent unthinking reprisal would be a disaster. And those calling for it in anger in the right-leaning blogs are wrong, but understandable.

"Heh. I was wondering when they'd just hire Tagon's Toughs. ;-)" - Patrick Chester

What? Rather than hiring John Christian Falkenberg? [Waits patiently for the "Who?" from the left wing ;)]

Why is it that the leftist side of any argument needs 6000 words to make their point? I mean, I know they think I'm stupid, but c'mon. I can read.

Ironbear: Well, I'm sure any who do will seize upon it and proclaim that Bush is running things just like the CoDominium did. (Or not, but you never know...)

Btw, I think we should put the "delenda est" options in the "plan B" (or C or D) section for the moment. ("Okay, Shep has come up with Plan B...")

Yes - they're real. The less the world fits their views, and the less they can force their ideas on the rest of the population - the more desparate and vulgar they get - the more they want the culture that rejected them to fail.

"Do you honestly mean to tell me that you don't understand the implications of our government hiring mercenaries to do the job in Iraq? Seriously? You don't see any problems with the privitization of military actions?"
Posted by: drublood at April 1, 2004 06:48 PM

They were security Guards..unarmed.
One was a stunt-man from hollywood, an ex-marine.
He did work on shows like J.I. Jane, etc.

The term "mercenary" is uncalled for, because the term implies they are cold blooded killers who kill people, not escort food trucks.

They are hired by private security companies.
WHOOPEE DOO! We have private security companies all over the USA. The reason they use private security is because it takes the military presence out of public view. Grab a brain you idiot. Go back to your DU site and stay there
with the other intellectually, and morally bankrupt, uneducated group of sewer rats.
You know nothing of these people (muslims), their cult,(ure) What they are brainwashed with, and how uneducated and dumb they are because of the totalitarian religious cult society they were raised in, kept stupid purposely, and is the reason WHY they act like animals. They are controled, supressed by a cult. Islam is no religion of peace, it's a cult of death. The leaders are greedy, hungry for power just like the stalins, Hitlers, and ho che min's of the past.
terrorism is their religion. wake up. Or go ahead, go sing kum-by-ya and hold their hands, show them the love (probably gay love in your case) give them a hug. See where that gets you.

Bukhari:V4B52N220 “Allah’s Apostle said, ‘I have been made victorious with terror.’”
Qur’an 8:12 “I shall terrorize the infidels. So wound their bodies and incapacitate them because they oppose Allah and His Apostle.”
Qur’an 8:57 “If you gain mastery over them in battle, inflict such a defeat as would terrorize them, so that they would learn a lesson and be warned.”
Ishaq:326 “If you come upon them, deal so forcibly as to terrify those who would follow, that they may be warned. Make a severe example of them by terrorizing Allah’s enemies.”
Qur’an 8:67 “It is not fitting for any prophet to have prisoners until he has made a great slaughtered in the land.”
Ishaq:588 “When the Apostle descends on your land none of your people will be left when he leaves.”
Tabari IX:42 “We have been dealt a situation from which there is no escape. You have seen what Muhammad has done. Arabs have submitted to him and we do not have the strength to fight. You know that no herd is safe from him. And no one even dares go outside for fear of being terrorized.”
Ishaq:326 “Allah said, ‘No Prophet before Muhammad took booty from his enemy nor prisoners for ransom.’ Muhammad said, ‘I was made victorious with terror. The earth was made a place for me to clean. I was given the most powerful words. Booty was made lawful for me. I was given the power to intercede. These five privileges were awarded to no prophet before me.’”

Brad, I compared your comments to the one's posted on the original article. And I must say if your goal was to prove that the Right is "just as bad" you failed miserably.

"if it's us or them..I pick them.
Carpet bomb the damn place"

Notice the conditional at the beginning. IF it is us or them. Compared that with the widely believed assumption from Kos that these were some kind of serial killers for hire.

When the truth of the matter was they were guarding relief supplies, like food.

There is no conditionals in any of those statements. The certainty of those statements discredit you and your political allies. Mostly because the certainty is obviously and blantently erronous.

And if they are so wrong about a little matter like that, if they are so blind that they confuse private security of food delivery trucks for mercenaries, what does that indicate about their trustworthyness on more important issues?

I don't want to nuke Fallujah. I don't want anyone to get carbet bombed. And I see the US efforts in Iraq as exactly an effort to prevent an even worse sort of holocaust being perpetrated on the Arab/Muslim world. It may come to that. I hope it doesn't.

Make no mistake about it, the choice is theirs and theirs alone. We will do what we have to to protect and defend our lives and our freedoms. If they keep trying to kill us, then any feeling or sentiment toward a "live and let live" attitude is impossible. You can't choose life if your opponent wants you dead.

Right now, we are trying to fix this in a very costly, very slow manner. There is a qhicker and, for us, economically more effective method of sterilizing this particular threat to our lives. But it is rather messy, and indiscriminant. Something that you would recoil in horror, and I would be somewhat sympathetic toward that view. But I have to admit, if it is a choice between them and us, if one side or the other is going to die, I choose them.

And I have my doubts you would choose otherwise.

I'm no more inclined to believe anyone here when they state or imply that it can somehow be known that all or most Iraqis are happy that we are there. There is definitely counter-balance to that theory, and none of us knows who is right. My point remains that people should not have to dig to find information about mercenaries and our use of them.
Posted by: drublood at April 2, 2004 06:36 AM

It's a town. They were the former beneficiaries of Saddam's regime. He favorites, the chosen few who were given regime jobs, and an artificial economy.
They were the henchmen, the rapists and the murders of Saddam's regime as well. They give support to the other terrorists who pop in to offer a hand in killing the zionist jews that are everywhere. Their Clerics preach Kill!kill!kill!to them daily.

They are a tiny portion of the Iraqi population. They are not a "counterbalance" of opinion.

What the hell is the matter with you? Can't you THINK??

"Why they hate us" ? Because we cut off their ill gotten gains, that they enjoyed while being a part of Saddam's regime. Plus, we are infidels, it's "Koran" for them to hate us. It's what they are brainwashed to think by their cult leaders as well.
"Violence is never right. Murders are never right."
Then why aren't you out protesting that this is being taught in the USA? Have you read the Koran? really studied it? I mean the REAL koran, not the one used to pacify their next jihad victims?

Yet, when we go to stop the murdering, We are somehow wrong.
We should have let Hitler be, Stalin, all them were just being peaceful, dong what they believed to be right.

Qur’an 7:3 “Little do you remember My warning. How many towns have We destroyed as a raid by night? Our punishment took them suddenly while they slept for their afternoon rest. Our terror came to them; Our punishment overtook them.”
Ishaq:510 “When the Apostle looked down on Khaybar he told his Companions, ‘O Allah, Lord of the Devils and what into error they throw, and Lord of the winds and what they winnow, we ask Thee for the booty of this town and its people. Forward in the name of Allah.’ He used to say this of every town he raided.”

Bukhari:V5B59N512 “The Prophet offered the Fajr Prayer [Prayer of Fear] near Khaybar when it was still dark. He said, ‘Allahu-Akbar!’ [Allah is Greatest] Khaybar is destroyed, for whenever we approach a hostile nation to fight, then evil will be the morning for those who have been warned.’ Then the inhabitants came out running on their roads. The Prophet had their men killed; their children and woman were taken as captives.”
Bukhari:V9B87N127 “The Prophet said, ‘I have been given the keys of eloquent speech and given victory with terror.’”
Tabari VIII:116/Ishaq:511 “So Muhammad began seizing their herds and their property bit by bit. He conquered home by home. The Messenger took some people captive, including Safiyah and her two cousins. The Prophet chose Safiyah for himself.”
Qur’an 33:26 “Allah made the Jews leave their homes by terrorizing them so that you killed some and made many captive. And He made you inherit their lands, their homes, and their wealth. He gave you a country you had not traversed before.”

This is America next. They are already here. Wake up you idiot, quit defending them, making it so easy for them. Democrats are too stupid to ever govern.
Look at all Clintons mistakes, He bombed the wong side in Bosnia. He gave the victory to Muslims, who have been killing Jews and Christians there for centuries. Oh how stupid a Democrat is. They even have control of the democrat party now, or damn close. The rest are idiots, So I say they have control.

Just remember who these people are, commenting on the Democrat Underground:

They are the ones who wanted to become human shields.

So why weren't they there to protect the innocent civilians of Fallujah from these nefarious convoys attempting to deliver subversive food and supplies to this besieged town? It was bad enough when the Coalition was using tanks to accomplish this, but now they contract out to infidel mujahadeen to do their dirty work. Where is the outrage, where are the brave human shields encamping and creating a buffer from these illegal attacks on the innocent?

I believe that a Commission must immediate convene to investigate what went wrong. Why were the human shields not immediately mustered and deployed to protect Fallujah from the infidel invasion of food and supplies? Why was this terrorist threat ignored, and who is responsible?!

Heads ought to roll. But you know that nothing will be done, because this issue will be buried by the Zionist-controlled media.

A pax on them all!

Ishaq:510 ‘O Allah, Lord of the Devils and what into error they throw, and Lord of the winds and what they winnow, "

Remember that part. "allah is lord of the devils.
We Also know weather, is controled by lucifer, it's symbolic in scripture.

Islam the devils cult. It's written all through the Koran. It isn't a religion of peace.

"ilah" is Arabic for "god" not "Allah".
The Koran says "there is no ilah but Allah"
It doesn't mean, "there is no god but god."
It means, "there is no god (for them) but Allah.

God's name is Yahweh, it's repeated in the bible 6800 times. Allah isn't the same name As Yahweh.
just as Peter isn't the same name as Paul.

learn the truth. Not what some dumb jornalist writes, for they aren't the brightest bulb in the pack either.

IT seems the definition of a "merc" depends on whose paying the bills. If it is a government, then that person is a "professional soldier". If no recognized state, or government is handing out the paychecks, then they are merc. REgardless of the job they are doing.

I work at a high energy physics lab as a technician. (We make antimatter but they never let me bring any home.) We have a private security company guarding the site, making sure nothing gets stolen, the wrong people don't wltz in, fires don't get too big before they are put out, etc.

To folks like Dru, these guys are mercenaries as well. To folks like those at Kos, they'd be just as happy to see our security guys burned and killed, as the folks in Fallujah had done.

Oh hell, lets just say it. People like Kos, Dru and the rest of the DU don't give a damn about anyone. They hope we all die. Whether that includes themselves or not, I don't know nor care. They have lost their humanity and simple human compassion. But then they protested Saddam's removal, so I really have no reason to be surprised.

LOL! Ellie, So true too! All those lefty marxists, but not one collective brain cell between them all.

Thanks Passerby. I hope you get out there to educate lots of people. If they're not so blinded by America-hatred to learn.

Please.

I could repost stuff from Free Republic that would make your head spin -- never mind the fact that there are tons of lurking freepers on DU who post inflammatory junk like this just so it gets reprinted by hack bloggers.

Grow up.

RE: People posting quotes from the Koran out of context.

The Koran is not the only religious text that contains incitations to violence. Have you read the Bible recently?

Psalm 137:9: "Happy shall be he that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones."

A gloss on this (found at http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/psalms/psalm137.htm): "the infants represent the future generations, and so must be destroyed if the enemy is truly to be eradicated."

So, of course, what we should do is go around Iraq and find all of the little kids in any way associated with these people and smash them against rocks.

Isalm as a religion is peaceful. Some, few, people take things out of context to justify killing others, just like Christianity (Crusades anyone?).

For the record, I am not "blinded by America-hatred," I just don't like other people being blinded by loving America without thought of other ideas. For example, "American lives are worth more to me than other human beings. Period." There is no reason for this. None. Period.

Life is simpler when you can pretend the bills will never come due.

Eisenhower offered to go to Korea and end the war, and it got him elected - and perpetuated the slavery of the North. It also told foreign powers that the only way to defeat the American military is to ally with Americans willing to sell their country's long term interest for short term gain. We call these people, today, Democrats.