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A Dangerous Mind

One thing you can say about Robert Fisk is there is no mistaking his stance. He's not wobbly, he never wavers, he never straddles the line between two sides. Fisk is very clear in his politics and loyalties. And if, for some reason, you were still unsure as to where Fisk stands, today marks a watershed point for you, then. Fisk has pretty much become the Democratic Undergrouand and Indymedia of the legitimate press. Things that make your jaw drop on DU can sometimes be dismissed as the ramblings of an idiot, but Fisk - he's a well known man with books to his name, an award winning PhD with a byline in several papers. Yet for all of his education and prominence, he still comes off like a rebellious teenager who's read one too many pamphlets from the "underground." Today is no different. Wait, yes it is. Today's column is somehow creepier than anything the man has ever written. In fact, it borders on deranged. He starts off with a bang: bq. London - It doesn't take an awful lot of courage to murder a paraplegic in a wheelchair. It takes even less courage to murder a man in wheelchair who has never been responsible for the death of innocents. Besides, the poor goy in the wheelchair is responsible for many deaths. Fisk even says so himself in the next paragraph. So let's not go there. bq. Take the old man himself. From the start, the Israeli line was simple. Yassin was the "head of the snake" ... Do you think by calling Yassin "the old man" Fisk was trying to grease the wheels of sympathy? Next, Fisk goes into the prison trade episode that let Yassin free from Israeli prison.
Two Israeli Mossad agents had tried to murder a Hamas official in Amman, the capital of an Arab nation which had a peace agreement with Israel. They had injected the Hamas man with poison, and the late King Hussein called the US president in fury and threatened to put the captured Mossad men on trial if he wasn't given the antidote to the poison and if Yassin wasn't released. Netanyahu immediately gave in. Yassin was freed and the Mossad lads went safely home to Israel.
Perhaps not a great tradeoff, but Netanyahu did what he had to do in this situation. It's never good policy to let your own citizens die because of blackmail tactics by your enemy. Netanyahu was pretty much damned if he did, damned if he didn't. So he did.
So the "head of the snake" was let loose by Israel itself, courtesy of the then Israeli prime minister - a chapter in the narrative of history which was conveniently forgotten yesterday. Which is all very odd. If the elderly cleric really was worthy of state murder, why did Netanyahu let him go in the first place? It was not a question that anyone wanted to ask yesterday.
See above, Robert. And no one asked it yesterday because it was no longer relevant. Only a person who has been so poisoned by the mindset of the people he writes about would try to twist the story of Yassin's death in such a way that people are questioning Netanyahu instead of looking at the reasons why Yassin deserved to be dead in the first place.
But there was something infinitely more dangerous in all this. Yet another Arab had been assassinated. The Americans want to kill Bin Laden. They want to kill Mullah Omar. They killed Saddam's sons. Just as they killed three al-Qaeda men in Yemen.
Stop. Go back and read that again. Is Fisk really bemoaning the death of despicable tyrants and murderers? Of course the Americans want to kill bin Laden. He's only responsible for the death of 3,000 people on American soil. Omar? He's the one who said this: The promise of Bush is that there is no place on earth where you can hide that I cannot find you. Plus he's the leader of that little band of merry men known as The Taliban. Saddam's sons? Do I even have to express why those cretins deserved to be dead? And those three men in Yemen? They were al-Qaeda terrorists. One of them was behind the bombing of the USS Cole and the American Embassies in Africa. Fisk makes it sound like we're on an some wild duck hunt, just shooting at random, killing people because they are Arab. bq. The Israelis repeatedly threaten to murder Yasser Arafat. It's getting to be a habit. Yea, the U.S. and Israel just won't stop trying to kill those damn terrorists and their leaders.
No one has begun to work out the implications of all this. For years, there has been an unwritten rule in the cruel war of government-versus-guerrilla. You can kill the men on the street, the bomb-makers and gunmen, but the leadership was allowed to survive. Now all has changed utterly. Anyone who advocates violence - even if they are palpably incapable of committing it - are now on a death list. So who can be surprised if the rules are broken by the other side?
What the hell? I had to read that three times to make sure I wasn't misinterpreting his words. Let's see if I got this: Israel has upped the ante because they actually killed the leader of a terrorist group instead of his minions. They killed the mastermind behind the deaths of hundreds of children, the icon of all suicide bombers, and somehow they have broken the rules? I get it. Israel should not have targeted Yassin because the poor guy is a cripple and, while he can certainly come up with plans and direct his people to carry those plans out, he can't actually, you know...pull the trigger. So he should just get a pass. As for the rules being broken by the other side, I guess the bombing of buses filled with school children was on that list of "things that are ok to do." bq. The top guys are now in the firing line. Let us not say we didn't know. They've always been in the firing line, you idiot. Even Fisks's beloved terrorists want to kill Bush. Hell, they would probably line up Rice, Rumsfeld and Ashcroft against the wall if they could. Just shoot them all, one at a time, while their followers danced in the streets. I just cannot fully comprehend the way this man thinks. How can he write this stuff day after day and not feel the least bit like a fraud? And how can people hang on his every word as if he were some guru teaching them zen? Fisk is defending a depraved murderer. He's making Israel out to be the bad guys for wanting to take out a man who has caused the death of so many of its innocent citizens. He's chastising America for going after the men who have committed terrible acts against the free world. He's accusing America of being a nation of haters who just want to attack people for their nationality or religion, when it's the people he is defending that have done just that - attacked us because we are American and because we are not Muslim. They have attacked Israel because they hate Jews. Some day they will get you, too, Fisk. You'll be sitting in a cafe somewhere in the Middle East, jotting down notes for a story extolling the virtues of militant Islam, when a man dressed in designer grenades and bombs will walk in the door and blow himself up. He won't care that you are Robert Fisk. He won't care that you are a terrorist supporter. He's just doing his job, after all. You know, just defending his poor terrorist pals from the likes of toddlers, mothers and scholars. The title of today's Fisk piece is The gloves are off in terror war, and everyone is at risk. The gloves have been off since, at least, 1993. We're practically in round ten already. Where the hell has he been? And in case he has forgotten about these little things called terror alerts, and places like Bali and New York and D.C. and Spain, we have been at risk long before Yassin became a blood stain on the ground.


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» The Council Has Spoken! from Watcher of Weasels
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Fisk defended the actions of the mob that beat him bloody in Pakistan. Nothing else should suprise anyone.

You fisked Fisk. Nice job.

I particularly love his "we're breaking the rules" line of thinking. Up till now I wasn't clear that there were rules.

The most delightful fisking of Fisk I have yet to read. Well Done youngster, well done indeed!

Why do I have a feeling that one day I'll be reading a Robert Fisk written obitury (pre-written) for himself where he praise the terrorist who unfortunately happened to have killed him?

Fisk is one thing (tho' I don't really know what).

But yesterday afternoon, my local news radio station (I believe it was a network feed) also referred to it as a "murder".

Fuck CBS.

A PhD and books does not make one less insane. See, for instance, Chomsky (who started out far more sane, but has lost it).

Fisk's desire to have us play by the rules reminds me of one of my favorite lines from Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, spoken by the big bad guy to Butch, who offered to discuss the rules before they started their knife fight: "Rules? In a knife fight? No rules!"

At which point, according to the screenplay, Butch delivers the most exquisite kick to the bad guy's balls.

Yup...no rules in a knife fight.

Between this, the SF protesters, and Villepin's remarks ("There was no terrism in Iraq before [the war]") it seems obvious the lefties have been stewing in thier own bile so long their brains have contracted a fatal moral leprosy.
If they keep this up, the Bush victory will be a landslide such as America has never before seen.

"Fisk defended the actions of the mob that beat him bloody in Pakistan. Nothing else should suprise anyone."

He turned that one into a great bit of unintentional comedy.

If you all think Fisk is bad(and he is) you should see the insanity spewing from Pilger. Makes Fisk look like a boy scout.
The tragedy is that these people have mainstream media outlets, not some loony leaflet.

'Ole Fisky's columns are carried by The Independent. With the delerious logic known only to the great brains at that newspaper, they charge a pound for access to each one when it comes out, despite the fact that with a bit of searching one can read them for free in several other locations.

I would dearly like to know how many people actually pay to read the tripe (except for student psychiatrists looking for case material, that is).

I do not understand that man's line of reasoning. No, that's the wrong word. What he does couldn't be called reason.

By his rules Charles Manson should be out on the streets since he didn't actually kill anyone, he just told others to do it for him. And aren't generals held responsible for what their troops do? How is this one man exempt from hundreds of years of convention on this? The leader is responsible whether he pulled the trigger or not!

I don't think Fisk cares what he sounds like anymore.

My guess is that he's being well paid by the Saudis (or Arafat or someone like that) and he just repeats exactly what his handlers want in the Western press.

I certainly can't tell the difference between his prose and the propagandists in Al Ahram etc.

"Of course the Americans want to kill bin Laden. He's only responsible for the death of 3,000 people on American soil."

More. Our embassies are also U.S. soil. So are the decks of a warship like the Cole.

"For years, there has been an unwritten rule in the cruel war of government-versus-guerrilla. You can kill the men on the street, the bomb-makers and gunmen, but the leadership was allowed to survive."

Well, now it's a written "rule" that makes Fisk look like a laughingstock. Does he really think that governments have never wanted or tried to attack the head of the snake? Does he think that it's somehow fair to let the leader and instigator off the hook?

And if he thinks leaders should be off-limits as long as they keep their hands clean, he should tell that to the rabid anti-war crowd that is baying for Bush's blood and would celebrate if Bush were killed, despite the fact that Bush didn't kill anyone in Afghanistan or Iraq. Funny, isn't it, how the other side feels free to attack us from leaders on down, yet for some reason we're supposed to treat the leaders of terrorists with kid gloves.


I guess being American, you just don't get it. You just don't go around killing people, because then you are just as guilty as the terrorists. There is something called due process which is what distinguishes civilizations from murderous thugs. By using these techniques, the Israelis and Americans have just shown themselves to be the same as the people they claim to be evil. It's the price you have to pay to be civilized, but I guess your lust for revenge has made you forget it.

My guess is that in twenty years, we in Europe will be watching movies about the bad guy Americans killing indiscriminately across the Middle East in the name of their security, and wondering why nobody stopped them by standing up and pointing out the obvious to them. The answer is that you Americans don't want to hear it. You're bent on revenge, like those poor Americans we see on tv, who have a family member who was murdered, and who think that by executing the killer, they will somehow feel better.


You sound like a nice person who knows nothing about war and nothing about our enemies...

Try to imagine that people are actually trying to kill you and your familiy.

Now do want to be protected from those people or do you prefer the purity of just waiting for your family to be slaughtered, knowing that haven't been "a bad guy"?

Michele#2: "My guess is that in twenty years, we in Europe will be watching movies about the bad guy Americans killing indiscriminately across the Middle East in the name of their security, and wondering why nobody stopped them by standing up and pointing out the obvious to them."

I'm assuming, Michele, that this fine dark humor in your comment was unintentional.


Due process is used in peacetime non-combat areas, hellfire missiles are used in wartime combat zones.
It's not much harder than that.

Regards, Döbeln

-Stabil som fan!

Michele, let me try to explain a few things. "Due process" is a legal term. There are civil and criminal courts in this country which obey the rules of due process for those sued by others or charged with criminal acts.

War and terrorism cannot be solved by lawsuits. Never have been, never will be. In a war the idea is to kill the enemy before he kills you. The terrorists have declared war on the US and on Israel, a war to the death. Therefore they are fair game. If the Palestinians (or the Afghans, or whoever is housing the terrorists) will not either kill them or effectively detain them, it is up to the people on whom they have declared war to kill them in order to prevent them from carrying out their war against innocent people. They could, alternatively, be captured and tried, but that is almost always impossible except by an occupying force.

For example, during the recent Iraq war, the US was trying to kill Saddam. However, afterwards, because the US was occupying Iraq, the US was able to capture rather than kill him, and plans to bring him to justice. He is being housed in accordance with the rules of prisoners of war, which are the rules that apply to him at the moment. The situation with Saddam is similar to WWII. While the war was going on, the Nazis and their leaders were fair game. Afterwards, because they were captured, they were tried under international law as prisoners of war. "Due process" kicked in, but the rules for prisoners of war are not the same as the rules for civil and criminal domestic cases. In order for the international rules to apply, the war must be over, and the victors are in charge of the trial.

Dobeln: My hat is off to you. You managed to say in one sentence what it took me three paragraphs to grind out.

Michele#2- If things keep going the way they are, you won't be watching any tv in 20 years.
Mullahs don't like it so you won't watch it.
By the way- Have you ever wondered how Fisk and
his American wifey live unmolested in Beirut?

A very pithy and cogent analysis of the continued decline of Fisk's ability to even pretend to live in the same world we do.

I had been hoping to see Fisk fisked this masterfully some day. You did it. Thank You!

excellent analysis. I read the original piece in case there was something mitigating in his argument that you missed. There wasnt. The man's a shit.

Fisk? Fisking?? That rings a bell. Isn't that something weird that habitues of certain bathhouses do to each other that involves the insertion of one's fist with the application of large amounts of KY jelly? Maybe that explains how his mind has gone around the Chomskyian bend. Just plain nuts.

Oh, so NOW Palestinian terrorists will "break the rules" and target the Israeli leadership?

Has Fiskie forgotten that the PFLP assassinated Rehavam Ze'evi?


Fisk doesn't seem to understand.

Suicide bombers target anybody, they target people with nothing to do with anything.
Israelis target those who fund and carry out suicide bombers.

There is a difference between terrorism and defense of innocents.
Israel targets terrorists, Israeli civilian deaths are the Palestinians goal.
Big difference

Hamas and Arafat derive their legitimacy by killing Israeli secretaries and high schoolers.

Michele #2: I can't figure out which has blinded you more, your ignorance or your arrogance. Let's say your sitting in a pizza parlor with your family in your home town. You see a man accross the street pull the pin on a hand grenade and wind up to throw it in the door. If you happened to be armed, would you shoot him before he threw the nade or call the police in the name of "due process"? I'll take the "cowboy way" any day.

Fisk is a fraud. Read this great article how he was silent on the Syrian attrocities against the Kurds.

From massacre in Madrid to carnage in Qamishli: Fact and Fiction

By Dr Kamal Mirawdeli

In today's Independent (March/15/2004) there is nothing about Qamishli carnage where Syrian Arab Baathists are indulged in killing Kurds. Reliable Kurdish sources indicate that 94 people have been killed so far in Syrian governments violent measures to quell the Kurdish uprising in Qamishly and other Syrian-occupied western Kurdistan. The great Middle East correspondent Robert Fisk must not have heard of it. And even he has, it seems he doesnt think there is any thing worth reporting or commenting about.

There is no injustice done. It is all the usual Arab justice practised against non-Arabs. To report Arabs or Arab regimes crimes against colonised, enslaved non-Arab nationalities in Arab racist states is an area which is a taboo for Western media. Otherwise, why are Western media and even human rights organisations such as Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch so criminally silent about Syrian regimes carnage of the Kurdish people in Qamishly, Aleppo, Damascus and other Kurdish areas?

Justifying Madrid Massacre

But there is of course a lot of covering of Madrid massacre and for obvious reasons. The Independents biased non-independent interpretive reporting and analysis of Spanish elections give the definite impression that:

Perpetrators of Madrid massacre did this to punish Spain for its role in war against Iraq. If not, the massacre would not have happened.
With cool analysis of this reality without any condemnation of the terrorists and the criminal barbaric method they have used and its horrid results, the Independent gives impression that these people were right to resort to these barbaric methods.

It even goes further: actually massacre of the innocent pays off. The terrorists have achieved their aim. The Spanish public have punished the Popular party. They are gone and the Socialists will withdraw the Spanish forces in Iraq.
To substantiate the above conclusions, let me now quote from todays (15 March) Independent:

1) In the very first paragraph there is this emphatic statement (so much for objective reporting) that: in a vote that confounded the polls and inflicted a huge punishment on the Popular Party government for supporting the war in Iraq. (Front page)

2) Robert Fisks analysis (p. 6) goes much further. Even the titles tells what cynical message he wants to convey. The West was warned. Now it is paying the price of the 'war on terror'

He justifies the massacre in this way, Madrid bombings are not only a terrible revenge for Spain's participation in "part two" of the "war on terror" - the illegal invasion of Iraq - but a cruel and incrementally more painful attack on civilians by al-Qa'ida. Then Robert Fisk accuses Blair of lying for going to war and not addresss9ing) the causes of injustice in the Islamic world.?!

3. Then there is a report by Peter Popham and Tim Gaynor in Madrid. The conclusion attracts attention as they suggest that terrorism can be an effective means of victory. They write, But, from the Islamist view point the war has not been one-sided: it has seen the American pull-out from Saudi Arabia, the Israeli withdrawal from Southern Lebanon, and Ariel Sharons stated aim of leaving Gaza. It seems that the result of the Spanish bombs will again see the Islamists claiming victory. (p4)

So what is wrong with this intelligent, objective and independent reporting of the great Independent newspaper?

Innocent ignorance or deliberate distortion?

The above reporting by Independent reporting and analysis by Independent is a violent cynical distortion of truths, facts and realities.

1. It was widely known that the Popular Party was expected to win before the massacre when the public already knew about Spains role in Iraq. So no one can honestly assume that the Spanish public inflicted a huge punishment on the Popular Party government for supporting the war in Iraq.

2. It is true that the massacre had a great role in switching the voters. But any objective analysis concludes that if the Spanish punished the ruling Popular Party it was because of its dishonesty in trying hard to paint ETA as responsible. This attitude was wrong and even racist. It was also dishonest.

3. The criminal bloodthirsty and fascist nature of the Islamic terrorists is evident from the fact that they did not punish the Spanish government or Popular party for taking Spain to war in Iraq. If they did so, one could say this was an act of blind revenge rather than outright barbarism. The murderers punished and massacred Spanish ordinary people including many Muslims given opportunities of life and liberty in Spain. They killed the 90% of the Spanish people who were against the war in the first place.

4. Again Robert Fisk is totally dishonest in describing this act as revenge for war against. He foolhardily tries to deceive and mislead Independent readers. He forgets that 11 September happened before the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq which thankfully led to the destruction of two greatest evil regimes in todays world with whom Robert Fisk and Independent, it seems, were quite happy to live and deal!

5. Again, we cannot say that Spains role in Iraq is what has pushed the Islamic murderers to commit their barbaric crime. The Independent itself reports in the same issue that Madrid bomb suspects are linked to attacks on twin towers. This means that they were murderers and terrorists a long time before war against Iraq. In fact it is not the firm line the Popular Party took against terrorism in Afghanistan and Iraq which has encouraged and encourages these terrorist to act, but the freedom and tolerance shown to them by Western democracies where they are free to organize, collect money, train on terrorist techniques, use endless number of Mosques and so-called Islamic cultural centres to indoctrinate young Muslim fanatics. What Robert Fisk and Independent suggest is to surrender to terrorism and paint as liberation ideology and movement.

6. How criminally dishonest for Arabist and supposedly knowledgeable Orientalist Robber Fisk to link the case of terrorism to injustices done to the Islamic world!! Was it an act of injustice to topple Saddam? Hasnt Robert Fisk been in Iraq and seen for himself over 300 mass graves containing over 300,000 bodies of old and young men and women and children, shot or buried-alive? Was the Taliban an example of just Islamic law and government and did the US and Britain do injustice by destroying the regime? And what just cause do the terrorists have apart from being fanatic bloodthirsty fanatics obsessed with Jihad and imposing sharia on everyone and every society if they can and by so doing imposing the law of jungle and system of darkness of humanity? Didnt they show us their example in Afghanistan?

7. Again the Independent and great dishonestly portray the action of Arab murderers everywhere as the cause of Islam and Muslims. Again Robert Fisk should know better: Were the 102 Kurds who were massacred in Arbil on 1 February, a holy Muslim day of sacrifice, not Muslims? Were 180 Shiite worshippers celebrating the holy Ashore day not Muslims? They were also massacred by the same murderers whom Robert Fisk associates with war of civilizations? What civilization a people have who are so coward, criminal, barbaric that they find their glory and future paradise in killing innocent children, women and men in the most inhumane and cowardly way? It is despicable that the Independent and Robert Fisk think that these people even have a cause and fight for a purpose other than sheer evil interest in blood.

8. The murderers of Madrid and the murderers of Qamishly are the same. They belong to the same culture of barbarism, despotism and hatred of freedom, diversity, equality and tolerance. It is a great shame that the Western democracies and their information and justice institutions are so hypocritical in their approach to human tragedies and causes of justice and freedom. There is no difference whatever between the previous Saddamite Baathists and todays Syrian Ba'thist thugs who are at this moment killing and oppressing 2.5 million Kurds in Syria. By accepting this you encourage fascism, totalitarianism and state terrorism. If Robert Fisk is so concerned about justice in Islamic countries why doesnt he do an honorable thing, for a change, and find out and report the injustices the Kurdistani people have been suffering at the hands of Ba'thist fascist of Arab racist state of Syria since 1961?

Let me get this straight. Fisk gets all whiney about killing this monster, because he was in a wheelchair, yet less than a month ago he was eulogizing Abu Abbas, who killed Klinghoffer?

Irony knows no bounds. Nor does anti-Semitism, apparently.

Once upon a time there was a gentleman's agreement not to assassinate leaders so our presidents, prime ministers and royalty were not always in the crosshairs.

It helped make those posts more appealing to the sane.

It's really not a good idea to revive assassination as a tool of statecraft.

Leaders have always been prime terrorist targets.
ex-president Bush in 1993, for example. British PM's Thatcher and Major both had IRA near-misses. Others killed include various high-level politicians from, eg. India, Sri Lanka, South Korea, Italy.

And terrorist leaders, at least, and arguably dictators too (unless your goal is to recruit a better class of dictator?) are not the same as leaders of democratic states.

So either way, I'm not sure what your point is.

The Secret Service will be glad to hear they don't have to work weekends..

I kinda like the idea of "Head of Hamas Hot Potato"..

"You take it Abdul. You are obviously the man to step in at this difficult time".

"No you take it, Al-Alottanutz, you will do much better".

"Seriously, you're much better qualified"

"But you Al, you are a natural leader"

"Ah, but the people respond to your passion and fury so well".

"Seriously Abdul, we have to change the AMEX card - they're on the phone. Let it be you".

"No you"!

"No you"!

Does Fisk even have an audience anymore? Outside of Osama, Omar, Arafat, Yassin -- oops, scratch that -- and the rest of the Merry Men, that is? Nicely done. Michelle.

To Joshua:

Actually, my family knows too well about war and being killed. Too many generations of my family have been victims of violence. After a while, you think that there's got to be a better way.

You, on the other hand, sound like you live by the motto "An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth".

What is it the terrorists said in their letter in Spain? I think it was "To Bush, who thinks he can defeat us with force rather than with wisdom". Well, I would add you to that list.

It's only when you step back from a situation and look at it with your intellect rather than with your emotions that you can master it, rather than let it control you and your descendants for generations to come.

Michele #2 wrote: "You just don't go around killing people, because then you are just as guilty as the terrorists."

Ok, just let me know when you want to serve the subpoena. I'll make sure I'm there to accept it. Oh, and then you'll have the problem of jurisdiction (which court are you going to try this hypothetical case in, anyway?) And conflict of laws (do the Isreali or Palistinian laws apply?) Heck, on those couple of points alone I can have this tied up in court so long that your children will die of old age before I'll ever be convicted of a crime. But you keep up the good work, Michele #2, and don't despair. In the meantime, I'll just keep on sending my followers out to enlighten the rest of the world with a few more well-placed suicide bombers. I'm sure that, in the end, "justice" will prevail. Of course, that also depends on whose definition of "justice" we're using...

Michele #2 also wrote: "After a while, you think that there's got to be a better way [better than war/killing your enemies]." We are all waiting for you to educate us on this one, and if you could formulate and communicate a plan that will work in the real world before MY children die of old age, I would really appreciate it.

Michele #2 wrote:

"To Joshua:

...You, on the other hand, sound like you live by the motto "An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth". "

Actually, the motto you quote above is in regard to punishment fitting the crime, not revenge. If Joshua did indeed live by this creed, he might be advocating that Israelis strap explosives to the body of a 14-year-old and sending them to blow up areas populated with Palestinian civilians. That would be "an eye for an eye."

I think you have to deal with these terrorists the Chicago way (He sends one of your guys to the hospital, you send one of his to the morgue).

I didn't realize until today that 'fisking' was a synonym for psychotic deranged lunatic racism. Keep believing your own lies and see if this problem ever goes away.

Terrorism is bad, m'kay?
But Michelle sounds a little smarter than her opposition. I don't care about Fisk much, but anyone who tries to convince me that USA is in Iraq not for oil, but for some "saving-the-world-as-we-know-it" reason - should go back to history class.

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