A Small Victory

Apparently the 'fan' wasn't. According to the Fox commentators I was listening to, the guy was a Fenway Park groundskeeper.

Wasn't a fan, by the way. It was a soon-to-be ex-member of the ground crew. Still...not good. This was just a strange, sad game.

If Pedro did throw at Garcia (which, in spite of the idiots in the broadcast booth, is not a given fact), it was one of the stupidest things I've ever seen and lost them the game. That and Nomar's lack of hitting with runners on base. Not a high point in Red Sox history.

Yeah, what I said before.

Clearly Pedro didn't hurt Zim enough. Zim was still whining about it after the game.

I mean, c'mon, it was Clemens who goes after Ramirez causing Zim to come out and, wait for it, tackle Pedro? I mean c'mon, clearly Pedro was just protecting himself from a senile old man.

Just Plain Ridiculous.

How did Clemens go after Ramirez?? It wasn't even close to that pathetic loser. It was at worst high and in the middle of the plate...Ramirez goes off with the theatrics then...

Clearly Pedro didn't hurt Zim enough. Zim was still whining about it after the game.

Zimmer, who had been complaining of dizziness, collapsed after the game and was rushed to Beth Israel Hospital.

which, in spite of the idiots in the broadcast booth, is not a given fact

Oh puh-lease. Are you going to tell me that one simply just got away from him? He's one of the best pitchers in the game. He can practically put the ball wherever he wants. If that pitch to Garcia wasn't intentional, then Don Zimmer is the next Mr. Atlas.

Without any billable attorney hours! Imagine that!

After watching that fucking joke of a game, a few thoughts stand out.

First, lost in everything else is the fact that Garcia decided that the apropriate response to the beaning was to cheapshot Walker on the next play. Predictably, McCarver excused this behavior. Two wrongs do, apparently, make a right, or at least one wrong can be used to excuse a second. Who knew?

As Garcia was being escorted back to the dugout, yapping at Pedro all the way, that Posada (who had already scored, gone back to the dugout and had put his catcher's gear on) was out of the dugout and also yapping at Pedro, that Pedro and Posada had their exchange. From reading lips, I get something about hitting in the head, but since you only see that bit, it could also be that Pedro's response is something to the effect of "Quit yer bitchin' -- if I wanted to hit you in the head, you'd know it."

Second, as for Ramirez/Clemens, let's also not forget that Clemens ain't exactly a perennial Lady Byng candidate, here. Clemens has pretty much got the same rap as Pedro for being a head hunter (he's only behind Randy Johnson for HBP among active pitchers), and was in the middle of a couple of little events with Mike Piazza.

Lastly, while I don't really have any beef with Zimmer (not like he's fucking Don Cherry, putting too many men on the ice against Montreal in the playoffs, or anything...), I'm not all that bothered by the fact that he got out of the actual confrontation with just a shove. First, Zimmer's lucky that one of the Sox bench players didn't see a Yankees uniform going after Pedro and flatten him before realizing who it was. Second, perhaps Zimmer should have thought about the wisdom of a 70 year old with two replaced knees and a plate in his head going after a 30 year old athelete, and about breaking apart the players and getting everyone back on their benches rather then going after Pedro. Either way, hopefully his trip to the hospital is just precautionary.

Lastly, to answer Jay Caruso, while Pedro most likely was throwing at Garcia, after having been subjected to three innings of Tim McCarver replaying Pedro's breaking ball pitches, pointing out that they weren't moving the way that his stuff normally does, I don't find it completely outside the realm of possibility that Pedro was aiming for a leg, or just a brushback pitch, and the ball just never broke the way he wanted it to. Most likely, though, was that Pedro was trying to light a fire (either under himself, or the team, or the crowd).

*****

As an addendum, it appears that the fracas in the bullpen is getting interesting....

Associated Press
Oct. 11, 2003 9:45 p.m.

BOSTON (AP)—
Two Yankees will be charged with assaulting a Fenway Park worker who was cheering for the Red Sox in the New York bullpen during the AL championship series Saturday night, police said.

You can read the rest of the article at Fox Sports.

I don't care much for baseball, but I kind of have to stick up for the Red Sox. Pedro was probably throwing at the batter, but Clemens surely was (as he's done throughout his career). Zimmer had no business throwing a punch at Pedro, and he deserved being thrown to the ground (it would be like Jeff Van Gundy throwing a punch at Shaq).

As for the groundskeeper affair, details are still a bit sketchy. According to espn.com, the groundskeeper may have been obnoxious, but I don't he deserved a beating:

Williams had cleat marks on his back and his arm, and he may have been kicked in the mouth, Steinberg said. He was recuperating at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center, the Red Sox spokesman said.

The Red Sox also said that two police officers in the bullpen backed Williams' story. McCarthy said police considered Williams the victim in the fight.

It will be interesting how this all turns out. One thing is for sure: there's not a lot of love between New York and Boston right now.

I thought this was a great game - certainly a bit violent but a great game. Like some of the commenters said before me, Zimmer had no reason to go out and charge at Martinez. I didn't hear that he collapsed. I was assuming that Torre made him go to get checked out. As for the groundsman getting his ass kicked, what the hell was he doing in the bullpen anyway? Moron. Ten bucks says he tried to sue the Yankees/MLB/Fenway for big bucks.

Mike you're an idiot! how can u even argue for pedro? that little bitch was geting pounded and as a result threw at garcia. so garcia slid hard into second, he was trying to prevent a double play u putz. he was obviously a still worked up over that idiot pedro thowing at his head. then for pedro to start, at least it appeared, threatening to hit people in the head or taunting them that he already tried. plus manny is a moron, that ball to him wasn't close. you are a moron, no doubt.

"you are a moron, no doubt."

How can you argue with commentary as witty and insightful as that?

If Roger Clemens is going to retaliate, you know it. The pitch would be much closer, if not just hit you. Ramirez is an ass anyway - anyone else catch his little asshat gloating routine in Oakland last week? - and no doubt was looking for a reason to start a fight.

Pedro Martinez started the whole thing when he hit Garcia in the head (and come ON, Pedro has better control than that - it was on purpose), and I'm shocked he wasn't thrown out of the game completely when he and Zimmer got into it.

I'm an American league fan, but if Boston takes the pennant and goes on the World Series, there is no way in hell I'd cheer for them against any National league team.

That pitch was at least a couple feet from Manirez's head. I agree with Michele -- he just wanted to start a fight.

Pedro is an dickhead, that's well established, but geez, he just did an ole! type thing with Zimmer, who should have had more sense at his age than to go out looking to scrap like he was about 50 years younger.

We know Pedro well...but how can you fault him for defending himself against Zimmer? If the frozen corpse of Teddy Ballgame charged the Rocket, what do you think Clemens would do?

My bet is on beating him with a broken bat.

Best rivalry anywere! Jeff Nelson will be in a Boston courthouse Monday! Woot!

Eat a dick. Yankees suck. I would have given my left nut to have seen Pedro kill that fat fuck Zimmer right on the field. The old fuck swung at Pedro and all he did was throw that fat basturd on his huge freakin head. The old prick should know by now that his only purpose on the team is to keep his fat sweaty ass on the bench.