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those puzzling palestinians

Not only do most Palestinians not want to return to Israel if allowed, they don't want anyone to know they don't want to return.

A mob of about 100 Palestinian refugees stormed the office of a Ramallah polling organisation yesterday to stop it publishing a survey showing that five times as many refugees would prefer to settle permanently in a Palestinian state than return to their old homes in what is now Israel.

Of course, if everyone knew that they didn't want to go back, that would make their terroristic murders of innocent Israelis look like less of a jihad meant to get "their land" back and more like just your everyday attempts at genocide.

Even more telling is what 13% of those polled preferred: the absence of Israel all together.

Only 10 per cent of the refugees chose Israel, even if they were allowed to live there with Palestinian citizenship; 54 per cent opted for the Palestinian state; 17 per cent for Jordan or Lebanon, and 2 per cent for other countries. Another 13 per cent rejected all these options, preferring to sit it out and wait for Israel to disappear, while 2 per cent didn't know.

We should start treating Palestine as what it is: a terrorist cell. Nothing more, nothing less. If only 10% of those polled want to return to Israel, then we can pretty much assume that the other 90%, including those who want to live in Jordon or Lebanon or even Swahililand just want Israel to fall off the face of the earth, preferably by use of a ton of C-4 and lots of martyred cries of suicide bombers.

Yes, that's pretty much conjecture on my part, but I haven't seen anything to disuade me from that view.

Oh, note the little addendum at the end of the mob story:

The Palestinian militant groups Hamas and Islamic Jihad warned yesterday they would end a truce announced last month if the Palestinian Authority continued to try to disarm them.

Ummm guys? Why do you need arms if you're in the midst of a truce? Oh, that's right. Because truce in Hamas-speak means keep shooting.

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» Hmmm! from Dean's World
I've long been a sympathizer with the Palestinian cause--much to the dismay of some of my Zionist friends. Then again, my idea of "support the... [Read More]

» http://www.rubyan.com/politics/archives/001296.html from E Pluribus Unum
On the issue of Israel, I am somewhat to the right of Menachim Begin. So it was with some interest that I read this item from Michele at A Small Victory. She noticed this news item:A mob of about 100... [Read More]

» http://www.rubyan.com/politics/archives/001296.html from E Pluribus Unum
On the issue of Israel, I am somewhat to the right of Menachim Begin. So it was with some interest that I read this item from Michele at A Small Victory. She noticed this news item:A mob of about 100... [Read More]

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» The Disorganization of Terrorism from Saoirse na Hoige
some of the news mediums are saying that bush and blair apologized for "lying" in the state of the union, but they couldn't have twisted their words more. "There never has been a time when the power of America has... [Read More]

Comments

The Al-Jazeera story (claimed to be from Reuters, but I can't find it there) says they were protesting a different question - probably it was a multi-question survey:

"Shikaki, whose think tank monitors the Palestinian political pulse through periodic surveys, found that 'the vast majority' of refugees were willing to accept monetary compensation in lieu of a return to homes and land they abandoned or were forced to flee when Israel was established in the 1948 Arab-Israeli War."

I'll be watching for the survey to get posted here, alongside their previous results. It's a fascinating site.

Man, Michele, you're tougher on the Palestinians than I am. But then, I'm a well-known bleeding heart.

So here's the thing: I have said many times that everyday Palestinians are kept from voicing their feelings by fear that the lunatic terrorist groups--including the PLO--will kill them if they speak up.

I think it woudl be more constructive to start finding ways to protect everyday Palestinians who would like to be free of Hamas, the PLO, and the other thugs that rule that non-country non-place that they live in.

Michele,

A couple of thoughts:

1) The cease-fire concept is bizarre. Powell keeps implying that it is just the first step. The second step? "Dismantling militant groups" like Hamas.

Dismantle? Militant Groups? As if!

Crush Terror! That's more like it.

2) There won't be peace until one side or the other is definitively defeated in a military engagement of some sort. There has to be a surrender ceremony the likes of which the Japanese submitted to on the decks of the USS Missouri.

Until then, you can correctly view the Palestinian power structure as a terror cell.

3) Abbas is a powerless figurehead being propped up by the US State Department.

He can't do his job -- crush Hamas. He fears a civil war. But a civil war may be the only way to resolve this mess. (see #2 above).

4) A two state solution is the only way. And the second state must be de-militarized for the foreseeable future.

Or ... the second state must be Jordan. And the West Bank goes back to Israel and the Gaza Strip goes back to Egypt.

If the Palestinians don't want to move to Jordan, then they can stay and be ex-pats on the West Bank, etc. But they won't be voting citizens of Israel. They will be citizens of Jordan.

More on Palestinians who want peace and prosperity.
http://www.hfienberg.com/kesher/2003_05_04_kesher_archive.html#200236336
(lots of links)

"Of course, if everyone knew that they didn't want to go back, that would make their terroristic murders of innocent Israelis look like less of a jihad meant to get "their land" back and more like just your everyday attempts at genocide."

They are not fighting to go back to Isreal proper, but to drive Isreal out of the occupied territory, and to create a Palestinian state. I think you are confusing 'right of return' to the occupied territories with desire to return to Isreal proper. Everyone knows that very few Palestinians wish to live in Isreal...why would they?

"If only 10% of those polled want to return to Israel, then we can pretty much assume that the other 90%...just want Israel to fall off the face of the earth..."

You can assume all you like, but you'd be wrong. What about the 54% who just want a Palestinian state? Isn't that the declared purpose of most of the Palestinian groups? And besides...if they wanted Isreal gone, they would have voted with the last 13%...

"Even more telling is what 13% (not 90%)of those polled preferred: the absence of Israel all together."

You don't think approx. 10% of Israelis would also like to see the Palestinians to disappear alltogether?

I think your post is just an attempt to lump all 5 million Palestinians together with the 2 or 3% of them who actively support or engage in terrorism; and it's precisely this type of black or white mentality that allows militants on both sides to dominate the arguments, and resulting in an ongoing cycle of violence.

Patrick (12:17pm)
>...lump all 5 million Palestinians ... the 2 or 3%... support or engage in terrorism;...this type of black or white mentality...militants on both sides...ongoing cycle of violence.

Wouldn't it be great to live in your world. I wish I did. I bet Michele wishes she did too. Not to mention most Israelis.

And some Palestinians. Not most of them; and effectively none of the leaders of their government and popular institutions (PA, Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Fatah, &c).

"2 or 3 per cent"? This is a joke and a punch line too; too bad it's not funny.

Patrick,
If they wanted a two-state solution they could have had it in the summer of 2000 when Barak offered them exactly that. Hell, they could have had that in 1948. Arafat turned him down and started the present terrorist wat three months later. The whole thing could be ended tomorrow if the Arabs ceased trying to kill the Jews. But they won't do so.

Hamas and the other terrorist groups regard Tel Aviv and all of pre-1967 War Israel as part of "Occupied Palestine." They aim to destroy Israel and kill the Jews. For Arafat a West Bank state is Phase I of the multi-phased strategy for the destruction of Israel, a strategy he announced decades ago and shows no signs of altering.

When the Arabs say "Peace in the Middle East" they mean the destruction of Israel and the extermination of its Jewish inhabitants. When they whine for "American evenhandedness" they mean they want us to help them do this.

A Mac says-
>"2 or 3 per cent"? This is a joke and a punch line too; too bad it's not funny

I hate to trouble you with facts, but this is not a joke. This site lists the major terrorist organizations and estimates there membership:
http://www.defendamerica.mil/articles/feb2002/a021402a.html

(It leaves out Palestine Islamic Jihad which is here: http://www.cdi.org/terrorism/pij.cfm )

As you can see, each group has from a couple of hundred to a couple of thousand active members, for a total of no more than 10,000 members. Even if you assume that each of these members is backed by 10 more active non-members, that's only 110,000. Add 35,000 for the PA guard and you get only 145,000. Just under 3%, and an over-estimate at that.
And it is consistent with the fact that only 10% stated the opinion that they want Israel gone. Do you actively participate in every cause that you believe in?

Lonie sez:
"If they wanted a two-state solution they could have had it in the summer of 2000 when Barak offered them exactly that. Hell, they could have had that in 1948. Arafat turned him down and started the present terrorist wat three months later. The whole thing could be ended tomorrow if the Arabs ceased trying to kill the Jews. But they won't do so."

This only supports my argument. The thugs in control of the PA prevent any real progress. You say it yourself...Arafat turned them down...Not the palestinians, who have no free will right now. But the conservative Israelis are complicit in this, because it is their oppression of the 97% of innocent palestinians which allows the PA to maintain it's public support. Without constant attacks on innocent palestinians, Arafats public support would dry up in days. As I said before...the fundamentalists on both sides feed off of each other, and prevent substantive improvement of the situation.

In the second half of your statement, you confirm this again. You state Hamas' policy as though it were interchangeable with Palestinian opinion...which based on this poll, it is clearly not. This is simply ridiculous rhetoric that is intended to further polarize the situation.