« four color hell - yes, again. | Main | must have »

On the ricochet - it's going to hit you

Jim blogs about the after effects of the whole Moxie v. Moxie debacle.

Next time anyone tells you "oh, it's just the internet, it's not real," see what happened to MoxiePop and tell me no one got hurt in this idiocy.

Jim has some wise words for the combatants in this case. They would do well to heed them.

There's a lesson to be learned here as well: When you let the trolls run rampant all over your site and you do nothing to stop them, havoc will ensue eventually. In fact, when you practically encourage the trolls and are more than happy to have them do your bidding, you better be ready to accept responsibility for what actions they may take in your name.

A clash of egos is never a fun thing to watch. It always turns out nasty. This one is no different.

Like a wise man once said, It's always funny until someone gets hurt...And then it's just hilarious!

And what I mean by that is this; these things come back at you eventually. They always do. That's when I'll do the laughing.


Listed below are links to weblogs that reference On the ricochet - it's going to hit you:

» What happened to Moxie from Southern Fried Mind
I found out about this earlier today and was infuriated. I didn't say anything about it here because I wasn't sure Moxie(pop) wanted anything else said. But if you're like I was this morning, and was wondering where Moxiepop.com went,... [Read More]

» What happened to Moxie from Southern Fried Mind
I found out about this earlier today and was infuriated. I didn't say anything about it here because I wasn't sure Moxie(pop) wanted anything else said. But if you're like I was this morning, and was wondering where Moxiepop.com went,... [Read More]

» Humor: Update On The Other "Name" Battle from Wizbang
The fallout from the Spike Lee - Spike Network (TNN) battle took an ugly turn today when Viacom president and chief operating officer Mel Karmazin was fired without warning by Chairman-CEO Sumner Redstone. Karmazin, who was the heir apparent to Redston... [Read More]

» The next chapter in the Moxie fight from Right Thoughts
Michele has something very...well, wise, on the subject. I'm not wise...I'm very, very angry [Read More]


I don't know why it's happening, but for some reason my site is pinging some Trackbacks twice. Sorry about that.

Moxie is a word in the English language, not a friggin' trademark! This whole episode is enough to push even the light-hearted toward misanthropy. All I can say is I'm very glad I don't work in the private sector.

The thing you should take from this is that there are bad people on the internet who will do bad things.
Also there are a lot of things that should never be aired in a public forum or even in email for that matter.
Every action has consequences.

It would be interesting to know what company moxiepop worked for. I know I don't want to do business with a company that has such a low regard for free speech. Boycott, anyone?

Yeah, that's what I thought too Bryan, but I doubt they'd bring her back if MORE people said they'd boycott.

Moxiepop has replied to some comments at right thinking saying that she feels no ill will toward her former company. I think she should reevaluate that (possible shock over the whole thing?). I know a lot of companies have procedures for handling employee misconduct (written warning, second warning, then dismissal). The fact that they fired her on the first hint of controversy shows this is not a "great" company.

I know it won't get her job back, but it might show the company that there are people who care about the situation who think they were wrong in firing her.

Nice. Hope the two most self-absorbed grade ten wannabes in the blogosophere take heed.

For the record, I have a well-established record of finding people who do things like this.

I'm out for blood now.

Before the Great Moxie War Of '03, I used to drop in to one of the Moxie Blogs, can't remember off the top of my head which one. Then a big stinkfight started in which I had no interest. Not having a dog in the fight I simply went away.
Does anybody seriously give a flyin' fuck at a rollin' donut how many Moxies there are?

One of them did, and was willing to go to great lengths to explain why. Fortunately for her, someone else paid the price, right?

I feel sorry for MoxiePop. I was starting to read her site, and now this happens.

This entire free-for-all doesn't have all the t's crossed and i's dotted. Before writing this comment, I went back and read all the threads MoxiePop has referenced, and the threads from the flame wars, on this and other sites. A few things do not sit right:

The assertion that the posts by "np" were harassment. The posts were no more, or no less, abusive than posts by MoxiePop and those of others. In fact, less so. They never threatened physical harm, to shoot anyone, or that someone die of any horrible disease. Publishing already public information is not harassment. If it can be found with a Google search, it's public.

There is a basic lack of understanding of what a restraining order does. The ability to prohibit someone from posting comments which you do not agree with, would be an impossibility. And in the paragraph above I made the point it is not harassment. No attorney would touch this. Dead-end.

However, there are some serious matters brought up by this which most people are ignoring. The following are terms which are pretty much standard in every ISP's Terms of Use Agreement. Posting the IP address of another internet user and asking for information regarding that IP address it creates a situation where the Agreement is violated. If the condition arose that "np" sustains any damages because of the post, it would create serious consequences. As we have seen with MoxiePop, these consequences can extend into the real world.

-Prohibited Activities. You may not use the Service in a manner that violates any applicable local, state, federal or international law, order or regulation. Additionally, You may not use the Service to:
-Conduct, participate in, or otherwise facilitate pyramid or other illegal soliciting schemes.
-Take part in any fraudulent activities, including impersonating any person or entity or forging anyone else's digital or manual signature.
-Invade another person's privacy, stalk, harass, or otherwise violate the rights of others.
-Post, transmit, or disseminate content that is threatening, abusive, libelous, slanderous, defamatory, incites hatred, or is otherwise offensive or objectionable.
-Restrict, inhibit, or otherwise interfere with the ability of any other person to use or enjoy the equipment or the Service, including, without limitation, by posting or transmitting any information or software which contains a virus, lock, key, bomb, worm, Trojan horse, cancelbot, or other harmful feature.
-Collect or store personal data about other users.
-Use an IP address not assigned to you.
-Violate any other policy or guideline.
-Resell or redistribute the Service to any third party via any means including but not limited to wireless technology.

So just about everyone (not everyone, but a whole bunch of people), on each/every side, has in some way violated one or more of these terms. Perhaps, people need to be a bit more concerned with the things they just throw out into the "make-believe, anonymous" world of the internet ad think about what their own ISP would do if they saw some of the really nasty, threatening comments which were made.

Additionally, as many people have pointed out, every employer has internal policies and procedures regarding internet use. As long as they are published and given to the employee, they can be just about anything, including immediate dismissal. There is no requirement for 3 warnings, probation, etc. These extreme measures, for any of you who don't follow these things in current news, are necessary because of the high costs to employers of productivity lost to time spent surfing. Regulation of employee internet activities has become its own market segment. Who knows what the fax said? Perhaps it was an innocuous alerting of her employer to MoxiePop's violations? This would be logical, if the time-line outlined by several people is true. The company received the fax on June 16, but MoxiePop was not fired until June 19. If this was the case, you'd better believe the sysop was logging her every keystroke. In which case they would have volumes to back up her firing. If it was a "prospective customer", can you blame them for being concerned if they saw the flame wars that were going on with MoxiePop right in the middle? And she's working for a company you are going to buy software from. Would you be concerned? I would. MoxiePop has admitted she violated her companies policies. This is another dead-end.

I'm not leaning toward either side here. But I really don't think we're hearing the full story. Did MoxiePop sign any agreements to not sue the company? Did she receive severance pay? Both of these would make her plight significantly less dramatic than what has been presented.

However, what if it was not a "prospective customer"? What if MoxiePop was targeted? Why is "np" being blamed? For posting comments which did not go with the flow of supporting MoxiePop? Come on people! There is a thing called the First Amendment. Everyone (including me) is guilty of waving it around when we are restricted, but we have to remember, others have rights also.

But more importantly, another inconsistency is the two different IPs and ISPs which are given for him/her. This doesn't sit right. Everyone is so quick to assume it is someone associated with Moxie.nu or Dawn. Has everyone forgotten the stalker ex-boyfriend MoxiePop has been so worried about in the past? Why has he not been mentioned or blamed? If he is the nutcase MoxiePop claimed, it would not be beyond him to do something like this. If I were MoxiePop, he's the first one I'd be looking at. Has she done anything to determine if it was him? Has she even considered it was him?

In any case, everyone needs to take a step back, take a deep breath and re-evaluate how out of proportion all this has gotten.

Wow, Hard Look, you work fast. I see you've posted the same thing on a half dozen blogs already. Way to go.

Funny, that's kind of how 'np' worked when he/she/it published all the info about moxie everywhere. Same m.o. Probably just a coincidence. Yeah, I'm sure that's it.