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a letter to john kerry

Dear John Kerry,

We do have a "regime change" process around here. It's called an election. It is something you will never be on the winning end of.

It is probably not a wise decision to suck up to the anti-war protesters at this point, as they will be eating the same crow as you in a few weeks time. By using their "regime change" mantra, you are in fact aligning yourself with a group of people who think socialism is a good thing.

When you say "''I don't think they're going to trust this president, no matter what. I believe it deeply, that it will take a new president of the United States, declaring a new day for our relationship with the world, to clear the air and turn a new page on American history," what you are saying is that the job of the president is to appease, beg and suck up to countries that will only give you their hand when you are offering something. If that is the case then you would probably fit the bill perfectly, Mr. Kerry. However, I - and I believe most of the population of this country - do not see the role of the president as that of a wimpy kiss-ass, so you are shit out of luck in that respect.

Have a nice run at the White House. Enjoy the travel, the sights, the press attention. I bet you five bucks that by this time next year you will be wishing you never uttered the words "regime change" in such a manner.

This post was written in conjunction with Todd the Empirical* Hot Tub Overseer.

*I'm using the word Empirical instead of Imperial so as not to rip off or piss off Misha.

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Comments

Well, that would be awfully white of the Republicans to follow through with a real honest to gosh election this time.

But you think Scalia would allow it?

Still bitter about 2000, are we? Get over it already, it's history. How do you account for the LibDems getting trash canned in 2002? Or was there some "vast right wing conspiracy" there too?

That fact that you don't happen to like the outcome doesn't make the election dishonest. Our system doesn't require winning the popular vote. At least two independent media recounts (by traditionally liberal media outlets) showed Bush would've won Florida even if a full recount had been performed. But I don't fault you for whining. If it had turned out the other way, the Republicans would be acting just as stupid.

handy to have your brother deciding who wins though isn't it?

Wahhhhhhhhh.
Whine.
Waaaaaahh.

It's all about the oil.
It's all about getting even for the assassination attempt.
It's a secret Jewish conspiracy.
Bush = Hitler.
Ashcroft = Hitler.
The Mossad did it.
Bush's an idiot.

Maybe the US laws are okay with the way the actual president got into his chair, but a big part of the rest of the world is not. That doesn't have to touch you, as the necessity for what you call "ass-kissing" does not have to be gettable for you, but for a big part of the rest of the world it's a simple fact of living together and sharing a planet. I can believe that this is such a strange concept for the oh so freedom loving americans, but the wiser of them will get it sooner or later. The rest never will, but that's okay then, too.

No point in arguing with the selected not elected crown folks. But what the hell, bitch slapping them is awfully fun though!

Answer this for me Rev, days before the election when your Gorebot was droning on and on about the electoral process and how it wasn't a popularity contest, did you still feel the same way? When Chris Lehane was giving interviews about the Gorebot electoral strategy and how they planned to get the 270+ electoral votes needed despite what they perceived as Dubya's strength in the popular vote - were you screaming fraud? When Gephardt used his influence on a judge (one that owed him politically) to illegally extend the poll times in the St. Louis metro area to help Gorebot and Dead-Man-Running Carnahan, were you outraged? When Wisconsin Democratic Party State officials were buying votes from homeless men with cigarettes, were you disgusted? When Gorebot's programmers asked for an illegal recount in Florida, were you shocked? When "Count Every Vote" Gorebot's lawyers were caught coaching DNC and State Party operatives in Florida how to exclude military absentee votes because they favoured Bush 12 to 1, were you sickened? When Democratic election officials were performing the illegal recount of selected precincts and counties and then witnessed hitting ballots against their palms and against tables to loosen/knock free chads and manufacture another vote for the Gorebot, were you suprised?

The answer to all of these questions is of course, no. See you're a hypocitical sack of monkey shit just like the rest of your loser friends. You have only one objective, power. When the SCOTUS voted 7-2 to stop the recount, note the actual vote that made GWB president was 7-2 and not 5-4, it was the begining of your nightmare. When the American electorate didn't vote the way you wanted in 2002 it simply confirmed your belief that either the Republicans were stealing elections or the American people were sheep and couldn't be trusted. Don't like the rules? Throw 'em out! Don't get the results you want? Not your fault - someone else must be too blame! sigh You guys are all the same, mindless little droogies that just can't get over the fact that you lost, and as long as you keep acting like this you'll remain losers.

Maybe the US laws are okay with the way the actual president got into his chair, but a big part of the rest of the world is not.

Lilli that is without a doubt one of the most idiotic things I've ever read. Who gives a rats ass what the rest of the world thinks about it? Was it legal, proper and in accordance with the U.S. Constitution - YES. Does the rest of the world even understand our election laws, constitutional form of government and the process by witch American institutions work, NO - or at least not enough to have a valid opinion. Give it a rest, we don't carp on y'all about french electoral laws/processes.

And the rest ot that bullshit about getting along and living together, so that means we have to kiss French ass right? Because Chirac has made it pretty clear that unless we do things the French way and put French needs before our own we were being ungrateful cowboys. Well guess what, FUCK OFF. We've had enough shit from the Internationals to last us a lifetime, actually about 3,018 lifetimes. The rest of the world can damn well get used to living with US for a while. Don't liek it? Don't breathe.

Maybe the US laws are okay with the way the actual president got into his chair, but a big part of the rest of the world is not. Agreed, Nothus, that really IS one of the most asinine statements I've seen in a while.

But you know the really sad part? They'll organize and protest what WE do by the thousands...but when's the last time thousands of Europeans got together to protest what Saddam Hussein does? Oh wait..that would be never. Dumbasses. Or maybe they're ok with oppression, torture, rape, and mass murder,

...unless we do things the French way and put French needs before our own...
Uh what French needs are you talking about? Fact is we aren't the only ones living on this planet - so guess what? ocassionally we have to listen to what other countries think. If we disagree, well isn't there meant to be a vote. If we win the vote then fair enough. And if we lose then we bribe/threaten the non P5 members of the security council with aid.

Stop being silly, Dave. I did not compare Hussein to Bush. I know it's done and that doesn't make it better. Let me surprize you: I do believe that Saddam Hussein is a far bigger Bad Guy than George W. will ever be, no question. But where's your point in that? I mean, that's clear for nearly everyone (besides the five jerks who paint different signs). Americans don't have to care for what others think or feel about them. But when I have a friend, I expect him to tell me how he perceives me. And not such a long time ago germany and the US (and many other european countries and the US) were friends. What kind of friend is the US when it can't take any critics? What kind of friend is someone who supports your mutual goals and then, suddenly kicks them with his feet? You all assume rest of the world need the US. Well... some part of the rest of the world is sure, the US needs the world more than vice versa. History will show us who's right and who has to fuck up. I'll take bets then.

Oh yeah, like this is some sort of bizarre deviation from the established UN policy, Mel. Strange that only 3 of the 26 international wars since 1945 have had approval of the UN Security Council, (two of them, by the way, by Presidents named Bush) and no one has got their panties all in a wad about it until now. Stranger still, Clinton didn't get UN Security Council approval for HIS military actions n Bosnia, nor was he planning to seek it when HE planned to overthrow Saddam by force (oh yes- regime change was CLINTON'S policy, not Bush's- he just continued it) and nobody was protesting that. The hypocrisy of the left on this issue is freakin hilarious. I don't know how you people look yourselves in the mirror.

What kind of friend is someone who supports your mutual goals and then, suddenly kicks them with his feet?

So you agree that Germany and France are in fact, not really friends, eh?

JC

America has the best of intentions- period. We always have. So what if naive LOSERS like Kerry wants to join the intellectual ranks of anarchist protestors and Hollywood's unappreciative artists.

U.S. soldiers have the best of intentions and have from the start. The Iraqi people will be free and nothing would have been done for them otherwise.

Kerry is a loser plain and simple. An unbelievably naive disgrace.

May the U.S. soldiers continue to work hard and I look forward to meeting them at a port and waving a flag upon their return.

I don't want a prize. And I know they won't either. Good luck to Kerry. And to Hollywood and the handful of world leaders that have raised a fuss so far.

I hope they can find something productive to do besides 1- KERRY- spreading dissent, breading fears and dissension and pessimism, 2- HOLLYWOOD- making records about lame crap, selling it for millions of dollars, and tehn turning their backs on the free world that got them the big blabber microphone they have. and 3- PROTESTORS- hoping for anarchy and spreading pessimistic world visions.

U.S. has the best of intentions and a track record to prove it.

Soon, we will see the rest of the world clamor to be involved in the liberation process, post the hard part.

But when I have a friend, I expect him to tell me how he perceives me. And not such a long time ago germany and the US (and many other european countries and the US) were friends. What kind of friend is the US when it can't take any critics?

It went way further than that, mel. If our "friends" wanted to tell us their perception of what we were doing, that would be fine. If they wanted to criticize what were doing, that's fine too. Nobody agrees on everything all the time. But friends don't proactively sabotage things you try to do. A friend may say "I think what you're doing is wrong, and I can't take part in it' and step aside. That's what france and germany should've done-- abstained. A friend does not say "I think what you're doing is wrong, and I'm going to obstruct you at all costs". That's not a friend- that's an asshole.

Remind me not to get on the bad side of Nothus. I would hate to have my arguments so efficiently blown to shit.

And Lilli, the term is "allies," not "friends." The difference being that "friends" go out for a beer and try to get each other laid. Allies don't do that.

"Kicks them with their feet?" As opposed to what, exactly? Kicking them with their thumbs?

And the only thing that "surprized" me about your post, is that you spell "surprise" with a "z."

handy to have your brother deciding who wins though isn't it?

I suppose he managed to convince those Democrat boards of elections to design those "confusing" ballots, huh? "Well, you are in the opposing party, and one of the candidates is your brother . . . but it sure sounds like a good idea! We'll start printing them up tomorrow!"

Of course, Jeb Bush had nothing to do with any of it, and in fact recused himself from the process (just like Katherine Harris should have done because of her connection to the Bush campaign, and just like Gore's Florida campaign head, who also held some state office and whose name escapes me, should have done).

1. I didn't support Clinton nor did I say that he would be any better in this situation.
2. Depends what you call a war doesn't it? Where do you get those figures (Fox news by any chance)?
3. I am NOT left wing.
4. I am NOT right wing.

Well gosh Mel, maybe the French need to be in charge, since they made it clear they would veto any resolution that called for a timetable, offering up verifiable evidence or the use of force if Saddam didn't comply. And let's not forget that little gem Chirac shared with the Vilnius Eight who dared ally themselves with America - "They missed a good chance to shut up" followed by a not so vague threat to block their entrance into the EU. Oh, then there's the French need to prop up their economy with blood money from Iraq - over 4Bn Euros of trade between the two last year, with sanctions on yet, and a 40Bn Euro contract to develop oil fields in Iraq in direct violation of those sacrosanct UN resolutions all the Internationalists love so much.

The fact is the US has bent over backwards to make nice with France, Germany, Russians and others but we will not sacrifice our security needs to make them happy. For years we've turned a blind eye to French intransigence in Africa while they played the pseudo colonial power because they had a vested interest in their former colonies. We held our tongues as the Russians brutalized the Chechens in their fight for independence since it was a security issue for them. Yet now, when our security is at stake, the French have actively organized against us, sought to deter our diplomatic and military efforts, and meddled in affairs with our other allies. French and Russian companies have even been caught selling the Iraqi's illegal arms! Yet it is WE who need to learn how to live together with THEM?!

Oh HELL NO! They can go to fucking hell for all I care, and on the way they better damn well learn that if you piss off the hedgemon you might get shit on back. The time to play nice is over, the time to play the game like everyone else - dirty - has come. And if they don't like it - lump it.

Oh and Lilli, you had a good question - "What kind of friend is someone who supports your mutual goals and then, suddenly kicks them with his feet?" The answer to that is FRANCE.

so...
this war is about weapons of mass destruction (chemical, biological, nuclear)

Did the US government condemn the Iraqi use of gas warfare against Iran? No

How many gallons of agent Orange did America use in Vietnam?
17 million

Are there any proven links between Iraq and September 11th terrorist attack?
No

How many tons of depleted uranium were left in Iraq and Kuwait after the Gulf
War?
40

How many countries are known to have nuclear weapons?
8

How many nuclear warheads has Iraq got?
0

How many nuclear warheads has US got?
10,000

Tthe US and UK claim the war is LEGAL based on Un resolutions of 10 years ago. Why start now?

No, as a matter of fact I didn't get them from Fox News... it's documented fact. For a non-left winger, you've sure got a good grasp on typical leftist strategy: no real argument? attack the source. or just say "it's all about oil".

difficult to attack the source of someone who won't tell you what it is, no?

the battle of this board continues.

1. Saddam bad. People could use new ruler. Agree?
2. U.S. soldiers have best intentions. Agree?

BELIEVE IN A BETTER WORLD! THE BEST IS YET TO COME!

Sorry for posting again - I just followed Dave's link to his site - he does link to FOX news!!! And here I thought I was just taking the piss...

April, some day you are going to have to learn that one cannot win a debate by saying "You do it too! Neener, neener, neener!". Comparing Iraq to the United States is the equivalent of saying, "Cops have weapons and they shoot people! Why shouldn't criminals have weapons! It's not fair! If cops have guns, it's okay for criminals, too!". There are good guys in this world and bad guys. There is war and there is terrorism. Try to wade out of that morass of moral equivalence you are mired in and learn the difference. The depleted uranium thing is a crock of shit. Our past deeds do not forever preclude us from doing good deeds in the present.

Just look at it as an elaborate SAR for Scott Speicher.

Nothus, I think monkeyshit is one word. Other than that, I say, yeah, what Nothus said.

Yes, I do occasionally link to Fox news, and lots of other sources as well. Are you such a complete and unrelenting asshat that you think everything on Fox News is false, or that anyone who would ever link to it is automatically wrong?

Here's the source for those figures, by the way...and guess what..it's NOT from Fox News. Sorry to burst your bubble.

It's actually from a piece that appeared in the LA Times (ooh, now there's some conservative bias) written by Walter Russell Meade of the Council on Foreign Relations.

Don't be an asshat. If you're going to suggest someone's figures aren't accurate, have something to back it up, dont just make assumptions or insinuations about the source. It's pathetic.

well shit, i forgot the link: http://www.cfr.org/publication.php?id=5564

As Poet Laureate, Dave, all future rants should be in limerick form only.

his figures are flawed - there have been many more than 26 wars in the last 50 years or so. The fact of the matter is that until a country has experienced war or invasion then the people tend to see it as something that happens to other countries - hence the shock of 9/11. The US still hasn't had to defend itself from invaders - please don't give me any shit about winning independence from the Brits.

so the majority of people will not see war as happening to them and won't have this influence on their views. France and Germany have.

Really? Where's your source? If you're going to say the figures are flawed, I'll need to see evidence to back that up.

So what's the point of that whole thing about not having been invaded? Are you suggesting that to have an opinion or take an action on something you have to have experienced it yourself? That's asinine. And does it apply to the Americans who have opinions opposed to the war, or just to the ones who support it? And France and Germany havent been involved in a major war for almost 60 years...there are very few people around who still remember it enough to be influenced by it.

But your logic is flawed anyway. Most cops have never been victims of violent crimes. Most cardiologists have never had heart attacks. Most psychologists aren't mentally ill. That doesnt disqualify them from making rational decisions or taking proper actions.

so...an anonymous troll asked:
this war is about weapons of mass destruction (chemical, biological, nuclear)
Partially Right, its about that, terrorism, regimes that support terror, pursuit of WMDs, and a few other things.

Did the US government condemn the Iraqi use of gas warfare against Iran? No
WRONG - State Department spokesperson John Hughes said: "The United States strongly condemns the prohibited use of chemical weapons wherever it occurs."

How many gallons of agent Orange did America use in Vietnam? 17 million
It's a defoliant. Vietnam is a Jungle. What's your point?

Are there any proven links between Iraq and September 11th terrorist attack?
No. WRONG - Al Quaeda members trained at the Salman Pak facility specifically on how to hijack airplanes.

How many tons of depleted uranium were left in Iraq and Kuwait after the Gulf
War? 40

What's your point? DU is harmless - oh wait, you're one of those lefty-black helicopter types, I get it. Been drinking any fluoridated water lately?

How many countries are known to have nuclear weapons? 8
WRONG, at least 9 - guess you forgot about North Korea, huh? Oh, and let me ask you this - are you suggesting that we wait for a hostile country to actually get nukes before we do something about it? 'Cause that would be really stupid of you.

How many nuclear warheads has Iraq got? 0
WRONG AGAIN, we don't know

How many nuclear warheads has US got? 10,000
Close Enough - actually its 8,600 strategic warheads and another 1,800 non strategic warheads. But what's your point?

The US and UK claim the war is LEGAL based on Un resolutions of 10 years ago. Why start now?
First WRONG AGAIN, it was based on UN Resos 686 which established a ceasefire pursuant to immediate Iraqi compliance.

Sixteen additional resolutions required Iraq's compliance pursuant to 686 all the way up to reso 1441. But what's your point? You won't be happy with any answer that doesn't fit your blinkered view of the world, so sod off and die snapperhead, thanks for playing come back when you have a clue. Buh-Bye anonymous troll.

Why start now? Because no one had the BALLS to start back in the 90s.

Oh, and by the way, anonymous troll, if there HAVE been more than 26 international wars since 1945, and only 3 have had UN Security Councel endorsement, that only STRENGTHENS my argument that it has never been a requirement before, so all the whining that it's required NOW is insanely hypocritical.

1. no specific condemnation of iraq in using chemical weapons against iran.

2. agent orange - indiscriminant and toxic - but hey I'm sure you wouldn't mind it being sprayed all over you.

3. Iraqi GOVERNMENT - I forgot there were some al queda pilot training done in Florida right? Quick lets go and attack Fllorida ....shit we already own it.

4. DU is not harmless - affects our troops with gulf war syndrome, cancer rates rose 700% in Iraq following GW1

5. resolutions of 6xx were about 10 years ago - as you say there have been many more resolution since - so why NOW??? is my point

As Poet Laureate, Dave, all future rants should be in limerick form only.

There's certainly no doubt that I'm
The Master of Limerical Rhyme
But the truth must be told:
It would surely get old
If I wrote just like this all the time

wholly crap...now I'M an anonymous troll! noooooooooooooooooo..........

>>Did the US government condemn the Iraqi >>use of gas warfare against Iran? No

They didn't condemn it, because Iran also used gas warfare against Iraq. You need to learn your history better.

>>How many gallons of agent Orange did >>America use in Vietnam?
>>17 million

Agent Orange IS NOT a chemical weapon. Its use was entirely as a defoliant. The US didn't know at the time that it was also a carcenogenic agent.

A Chemical weapon is one that kills almost immediately or injures immediately. The effects of Agent Orange took years to show up.

>>Are there any proven links between Iraq and >>September 11th terrorist attack?
>>No

Yes, there are links between Al Ansar Islam (In Iraq) and Al Qaeda.

>>How many tons of depleted uranium were >>left in Iraq and Kuwait after the Gulf
>>War?
>>40

What is the point of this? Are you bringing up the Depleted Uranium Myth? That's right, it is a myth. WHO wanted to investigate Iraq's claims that DU was causing birth defects, but Iraq wouldn't let them. And how come we aren't hearing about Birth Defects in Kuwait, where a lot of DU shells were used?

How many countries are known to have nuclear weapons?
8

As to the rest of your little points, they really aren't worth countering because it won't matter to you anyways.

Typical Leftist Propaganda BS.

3. Iraqi GOVERNMENT - I forgot there were some al queda pilot training done in Florida right? Quick lets go and attack Fllorida ....shit we already own it.

Typical, your point gets slammed, and you counter with: Let's attack Florida!!!

The difference between some of them training in Florida, and the ones that trained in Iraq, is that the United States didn't know they were training in Floriday.

However, Iraq knew they had Al Qaeda training in Iraq.

Hmmm... a silent endorsement?

Go Figure

correction: Iraq INVITED the WHO and the investigation continues. How many times do I have to say i am not left wing? I have not tried to suggest that your views are based purely on the fact of your political allegiance. It is possible to have a dscussion without polarizing it in to a me RIGHT WING you LEFT Wing scenario. Grow up and develop your own personal views.

soupnazzi - (i love your name) - we can not prove that iraq knew of these terrorist training camps any more than he can prove that the us did not know about the cells operating in florida

Your point is noted and heard
About ranting only in limerical words
If you rhymed all that you told
Yes, that would truly get old
Now excuse me, I must take a turd.

oh, man. that's just bad.

I can't resist a good turd reference.

Anon Troll -

1. no specific condemnation of iraq in using chemical weapons against iran.
What the hell, don't like the game change the rules right? The fact is there was a condemnation of Iraq's use of chemical weapons - hell even WaPo thought that was a commendable for the Reagan admin. to do so, and if they didn't mention the Iraqi in the statement too bad, but guess what - they were the only ones who used chems so who else would they have been condemning?

2. agent orange - indiscriminant and toxic - but hey I'm sure you wouldn't mind it being sprayed all over you.
Back then - probably not. But then we didn't know what the effects of AO were going to be when we used it as indiscriminantly as we did. Just like the use of DDT in the 50's, wouldn't do it now but back then I would have. So what's your point? Or is every mistake America has ever made up for review? Oops - guess we know your agenda!

3. Iraqi GOVERNMENT - I forgot there were some al queda pilot training done in Florida right? Quick lets go and attack Fllorida ....shit we already own it.
Damn, that was funny - Oh wait, the Iraqi GOVERNMENT OWNS SALMAN PAK fuckwad. No one trains there without their say so. The hijackers learned how to hijack the planes at Salman Pak. Anyone can learn how to fly a plane in a free country like America, but the Iraqi Gov't. - aka Saddam - had to approve of the Al Quaeda terrorists using Salman Pak. Got it? or do you need it broken down into one syllable words so you can get it all into that thick fucking melon?

4. DU is not harmless - affects our troops with gulf war syndrome, cancer rates rose 700% in Iraq following GW1
And not because Saddam poisoned the environment with all those oil well fires right? Source it jackass, I'll take FAS claiming it's harmless (.7 percent as radioactive as Uranium ore - which is safe enough to hold in your hand).

5. resolutions of 6xx were about 10 years ago - as you say there have been many more resolution since - so why NOW??? is my point.
ARGH! 12 - count them 12 fucking years ago not 10! Jeezus on a cracker are you that fucking dumb you can't count from 1991 to 2003 and get TWELVE fucking years out of it?! Now as for the lame point you're trying to make - 9/11, 3018 dead Americans from terrorist attacks in a single day. The government vowed that all terrorists and all states that support terrorists were going down. Would you like a list of those states that support or sponsor terrorism? Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, Syria, Libya, North Korea, Sudan, and Cuba. We're done with the Afghan's , now it's Iraq's turn, next either Iran get's its shit together or they can go - or maybe it'll be Syria. This ain't over yet - and if you don't get it then that's the problem.

ami,

Actually Iraq did know about the Ansar Al-Islam camps and chose to do nothing about them. They had a tacit agreement that as long as teh Ansar Al-Islam confined their activities to Kurdish areas they wouldn't get hassled by the Iraqi Air Force. Seeing as the camps in question were in the portion of Iraq that was not covered by thy northern no-fly zone, that would indicate tacit agreement to operate

wading in reluctantly -- DU - utter bullshit. when i was a younger man i worked as a medical researcher at a major VA/Teaching hospital, working in the field of genetic research under the supervision of a brilliant hematologist/oncologist. i asked him about DU and in fact any "Gulf War" syndrome - he stated that it is utter bullshit. anecdotal? yes. most likely true? yes.

whenever i hear "DU" or "selected not elected" my eyes roll back in my head. i know that what is to follow is going to be nothing but the ranting of an imbecile.

The problem with DU is that it burns up and turns into dust when it goes through a tank (what those shells are supposed to do).

It doens't matter that it's safe to hold in your hand - it's not safe to breath.

I heard an interview with the guy who wrote the army's training guide for DU cleanup a year ago or so, and he was pissed off that (at that point) the soldiers had NOT been put through the training despite the penagon's order that they should be.

He said that in Gulf War 1, sites that should have been cleaned up by people in chemical suits, had children playing on them..

He also said that the army refused to release his own exposure tests for months... when he finally got them he found out that his exposure was 100 time the safe level.

DU isn't the safest stuff in the world, but it does go through armor, so I guess we need it.

Oh, also, getting DU dust in a cut or wound is a bad thing.

Again, more DU myth... "well I spoke to so and so... and they said."

Post some frigging evidence, otherwise, STFU.

Fact Sheet from the World Health Organization (WHO)

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs257/en/

  • No reproductive or developmental effects have been reported in humans.
  • However, because DU is only weakly radioactive, very large amounts of dust (on the order of grams) would have to be inhaled for the additional risk of lung cancer to be detectable in an exposed group. Risks for other radiation-induced cancers, including leukaemia, are considered to be very much lower than for lung cancer.
  • GRAMS - That is a significant amount of DU that children would have to inhale/swallow through hand-to-mouth activity.

    I notice that the study you mention was based on the exposure of miners... The dust that miners would be exposed to is no doubt much coarser grain than the results of burning DU. It may also have different solubility.

    Who knows?

    Who knows?

    No one. Most especially, no one currently claiming it's toxic. Which is precisely the point.

    But it's a good thing that DU dust is so damned heavy that it falls right to the ground, isn't it?

    You can discuss and cuss for finite time, and you're not going to change the protaganist's mind. So...here's what needs to be done....

    Clouds are hanging low over the horizon of mankind. Amidst much wailing and the gnashing of teeth the self righteous
    are throwing boulders through their own windows. All around the globe the uneducated and misinformed are
    protesting a war that they are only seeing one side of. There is an epidemic of tunnelvision infecting all
    nations and races indiscriminately.
    Let's take for instant any one of the arab states that are whining about american imperialism. The
    truth be know they are only blurbing out the top most favourite buzz word of the moment, without truly knowing
    the definition of the word 'imperialism'. It is like the metamorphous of humans being turned into parroting
    chickens, mob rules.
    The solution I guess will be a catastrophe of world wide measures to shut the ingrates and sniveling apathetic
    silent. Maybe they have something with SARS. Already the panic has set in, when such a miniscule amount have
    even contracted the disease, if that is what it really is. Maybe this is a red herring thrown out to take
    the majority's attention off of the war.
    The arab states have not taken care of the garbage in their own backyards, knowingly letting their socalled
    brothers and sisters be tortured, gassed, mutilated and murdered. So when Big Brother strolls in, like a
    big steam roller, and gathers up the garbage they talk about how 'bad' he is. The whole region needs to
    be walled in, armed and let go at each other. While the rest of the world sits in the bleachers and watches
    the blood bath. Popcorn anyone? Who is taking the bets? But they sure do stick their hot little hands out for
    american money. They don't need our money? Hey that's great! Let's close up shop then and go home.
    At this point in time, I am ALL for isolationism, I'm all for closing our borders to EVERYONE. I am all for
    shutting down our own welfare state and cleaning inhouse. That's what is needed, a good spring cleaning of
    our domestic governance, federally and statewise.
    As I told a 'friend', who, after attacking me and my country, when we pull out and let the world take care of their
    own ills, problems and bills, to let the chips fall where they may. I guess no one was looking when 9/11 happened
    and when we stopped, so did the world. I just can't wait to see the consequences of the world making it on their
    own without american money, aid or influence. The citizens of this country need to gear up for inhouse tourism,
    and not traveling internationally for a great long time. They keep telling us how much they hate us, well lets
    give them a real legitimate cause for hatred. Like ground in apathy when the next call for help comes in. Then we
    can all line up on our respective streets and roads and say, 'oh well we're sorry your'e having a problem, what does the
    U.N. say about aid?' Keep us updated on your news, warm regards. And then the telephone recording can say, 'leave a number and
    we'll call you someday.'
    America has enough inhouse garbage, viruses and broken systems to keep us busy for the next 100 years without
    taking on global affairs. This writer isn't steeped in the legends and fairytales of international business,
    law or politics but quite capable of discerning that what is needed here is a good deal of regrouping,
    restructuring, indepth investigating, deep closet cleaning and keeping our noses in our business.
    With the ingenuity of our think tanks, and the common people we can come up with wondrous solutions to our
    independence on foreign oil. We need to wake up and grow up, take control of our own destinies, quit letting
    someone else call the shots for us. Eh, what a pundit!

    With Carl Limbacher and NewsMax.com Staff
    For the story behind the story...



    Friday, April 4, 2003
    Bush Pushes to Let 'Axis of Weasel' Profit From War

    In overwhelmingly approving President Bush's nearly $80 billion war budget late Thursday, something very interesting happened. The House approved a proposal to block Germany, France, Russia and the terrorist nation of Syria from post-war reconstruction contracts.

    "In the Senate, however, the Bush administration pressured Sen. John Ensign, R-Nev., to withdraw an amendment that would have barred any of the plan's nearly $2.5 billion for rebuilding Iraq from going to French and German companies because they opposed the war," UPI reported today.

    And here's what Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., had to say in opposing the amendment: "If America is going to become an arrogant nation and do things only our way, this is a good way to begin."

    Read more on this subject in related Hot Topics:

    Bush Administration
    DNC
    George W. Bush
    RNC

    Editor's note:
    France Hates America and Is in Bed With Saddam - Boycott Cowardly France! Click

    my2centsworth - There seems to have been something wrong with your formatting so I've reposted that screed for you. An interesting take on things - one I'm not wholly in agreement with but an interesting take none the less. - Nothus

    Clouds are hanging low over the horizon of mankind. Amidst much wailing and the gnashing of teeth the self righteous are throwing boulders through their own windows. All around the globe the uneducated and misinformed are protesting a war that they are only seeing one side of. There is an epidemic of tunnelvision infecting all nations and races indiscriminately. Let's take for instant any one of the arab states that are whining about american imperialism. The truth be know they are only blurbing out the top most favourite buzz word of the moment, without truly knowing the definition of the word 'imperialism'. It is like the metamorphous of humans being turned into parroting chickens, mob rules.
    The solution I guess will be a catastrophe of world wide measures to shut the ingrates and sniveling apathetic silent. Maybe they have something with SARS. Already the panic has set in, when such a miniscule amount have even contracted the disease, if that is what it really is. Maybe this is a red herring thrown out to take the majority's attention off of the war.

    The arab states have not taken care of the garbage in their own backyards, knowingly letting their socalled brothers and sisters be tortured, gassed, mutilated and murdered. So when Big Brother strolls in, like a big steam roller, and gathers up the garbage they talk about how 'bad' he is. The whole region needs to be walled in, armed and let go at each other. While the rest of the world sits in the bleachers and watches the blood bath. Popcorn anyone? Who is taking the bets? But they sure do stick their hot little hands out for american money. They don't need our money? Hey that's great! Let's close up shop then and go home.

    At this point in time, I am ALL for isolationism, I'm all for closing our borders to EVERYONE. I am all for shutting down our own welfare state and cleaning inhouse. That's what is needed, a good spring cleaning of our domestic governance, federally and statewise.

    As I told a 'friend', who, after attacking me and my country, when we pull out and let the world take care of their own ills, problems and bills, to let the chips fall where they may. I guess no one was looking when 9/11 happened and when we stopped, so did the world. I just can't wait to see the consequences of the world making it on their own without american money, aid or influence. The citizens of this country need to gear up for inhouse tourism, and not traveling internationally for a great long time. They keep telling us how much they hate us, well lets give them a real legitimate cause for hatred. Like ground in apathy when the next call for help comes in. Then we can all line up on our respective streets and roads and say, 'oh well we're sorry your'e having a problem, what does the
    U.N. say about aid?' Keep us updated on your news, warm regards. And then the telephone recording can say, 'leave a number and we'll call you someday.'

    America has enough inhouse garbage, viruses and broken systems to keep us busy for the next 100 years without taking on global affairs. This writer isn't steeped in the legends and fairytales of International business, law or politics but quite capable of discerning that what is needed here is a good deal of regrouping, restructuring, indepth investigating, deep closet cleaning and keeping our noses in our business. With the ingenuity of our think tanks, and the common people we can come up with wondrous solutions to our independence on foreign oil. We need to wake up and grow up, take control of our own destinies, quit letting someone else call the shots for us. Eh, what a pundit!

    Posted by my2centsworth at April 4, 2003 11:33 AM

    Thanx for the editing. I cut and pasted from the original work..guess this site didn't like my formatting. :)
    As to my extremism...it's just that frustration of the world wide juvenilism has undone me for the time being. I am tired of the United States being used as everyone's whipping post. Even the Canadians are pissing on us now. Don't you think that if you're not welcome you should just knock the dust of their doorstep off of your feet and go on? Just because we all live on the surface of the same planet doesn't mean we should all be in bed together.
    Hey 'they' keep telling us they hate us and to go home...I just want to honour their wishes.

    We call on France to liberate us from the oppression of the Bushies!

    "Maybe the US laws are okay with the way the actual president got into his chair, but a big part of the rest of the world is not."

    Oh yeah, since when does France have any say about how our president is elected? The majority of the country supports our president, thats all that matters.

    "we can not prove that iraq knew of these terrorist training camps any more than he can prove that the us did not know about the cells operating in florida"

    Wait, Saddam seems to know when anyone speaks badly of him anywhere in Iraq, but he is oblivious to a freaking terrorist camp freely operating in his country? Please.

    OK, check it out....

    "Maybe the US laws are okay with the way the actual president got into his chair, but a big part of the rest of the world is not."

    Are you trying to say that the USA has to change it's election laws in order to make the rest of the world happy?

    JESUS H. BEND ME OVER AND FIST ME WITH SANDPAPER CHRIST! THEY ARE OUR LAWS!

    As of right now, I say FUCK THE REST OF THE WORLD! Fuck "we sell nuke reactors to Saddam" France, fuck "We violate UN sanctions" Germany, and fuck "We sell military gear to Iraq" Russia! Fuck China just on general principal! They have shown their true colors, and we don't need them. They're certainly not friends, and they have shown themselves to NOT be our allies! We don't need them!

    Quite honestly, the statement that's pasted above scares me. You want the USA to give up it's soverignty just to make other countries happy? Do you?

    john kerry has gotten his Catholic education mixed up with socialism. He seems to think the UN is synomical to the Council he read about in Revelations. He must think he is the 13th apostle. come to think of it-he may be the 13th. that number certainly is revealing isnt it? I know all about him, I am his age and Catholic educated. There was a trend for kids like us in our day,maybe the country doessnt get it, but I do. linda

    john kerry has gotten his Catholic education mixed up with socialism. He seems to think the UN is synomical to the Council he read about in Revelations. He must think he is the 13th apostle. come to think of it-he may be the 13th. that number certainly is revealing isnt it? I know all about him, I am his age and Catholic educated. There was a trend for kids like us in our day,maybe the country doessnt get it, but I do. linda