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just saying..

The Smart family gives me the creeps.


I'm glad I'm not alone...there's a lot to this story that won't be in the news. I think there is a reason why she didn't come back. That family is just weird! I get the most fucked up vibes from listening to that dad talk to the press. He seems like he's a little too glad to be talking. He spreads on the friendliness a little too thick....ugh.

Oh give me a break!! The Smart family is a devout Mormon family. To say such things as they give you the creeps is such crap. First of all, you have no idea what it is to lose a child. Second, I'm from Salt Lake City, and Elizabeth comes from a sane, wonderful, religious family. To say they give you the creeps just because they are Mormon is completely idiotic. Apparently you don't have any Mormon friends. There isn't a fake bone in Ed Smart's body. That's just how they are. Friendly. And Loving.

Yeh, a little too loving...

Janet, where did I mention the word Mormon?

Arguing on the internet is like competing in the Special Olympics. Even if you win, you're still retarded.

Hey Stinson, here's a buck, buy a saying that isn't worn out already.

I agree. I don't get good vibes from this either. We may never know but my gut feeling is that there is more to this story than we have been told.

the dad bugs me too but as i'm reading your comments, i am wondering where you said it bugged you that they were mormom?

Yup, Michele. There's just sumthin not right there.......

I've thought the whole thing was odd since she disappeared. It's just a vibe I've had, and I always - ALWAYS - trust the vibe.

And it has nothing to do with them being Mormon. I had no clue if they were actually Mormon or not - you know, I've heard that they let non-Mormons live in Salt Lake City too...

They are LDS, as far as I am aware. And they seem pretty normal for an LDS family to me. The dad does seem enthusiastic when talking with the press, but let's face it, most of us can't or won't ever get this kind of media attention in our lives and maybe he wants to do something with it, use it to help other kids like his daughter.

Yeah, the Dad bothers me. The lesser of two evils? I hope so. At least she has her Mom and the sibs now- but Elizabeth will probably never be right again- a shame. Poor baby.

HAH....michele, just like Laci Patterson, you and I are cynically in sync.

The dad reminds me of George McFly (played by Crispin Glover) in "Back To the Future."

Her dad is a creepy guy. One suspects that she might have found a polygamous "marriage" to a homeless fanatic more "normal" than living in a "family" headed by that hyper jerk. How sad.

Whatever is or isn't working in that family, the whole affair has got to be a strain on all of them. Being in the spotlight like that would make anyone but a talking head newscaster uncomfortable.

That being said, regarding what kris said: "but Elizabeth will probably never be right again- a shame. Poor baby." -- if Patty Heast is any indication time will help heal those wounds. Let's hope Elizabeth finds a better outllet than Patty's "work" in John Waters films.

The family comes accross as typical hyper-religious, repressive mormom zeolots to me. I know, I live here. Utah has the highest percentege of teenage pregnencies in the US and ranks very high in the runaway department. The idea that she was so brainwashed in a couple of months that she could be taken to parties, parks, and live for months within two blocks of the SLPD and not speak out is rediculous. If she WAS that brainwashed, you'd think she'd have to spend some time; weeks or months, being deprogrammed or something. Also, the media, as fed by the Smart family and the mormon church are using the kidnapper's notion of being a prophet and having written his own religious "manifesto" advocating polygomy as indicators of his "religious whackiness". Uh, this sounds odd coming from the mormons who have their own religious "manifesto" promoting polygomy, ie the book of mormon, and who's followers believe that good mormons will one day get to be gods of their own planets, AND who believe their leader is a direct prophet to god . . . riiiiight.

Don't get me wrong, no matter what, a 14 year old is still a victem in this situation and it's wonderful that she's alive and well. I'm just saying that the numbers don't add up as presented by the Smarts and media.

I can't wait for the trial, when the Smart family begins their neverending defense for this 'emmanuelle' fruit loop. The general public wants this guy put away, but they'll probably be the first to forgive and hlep the "healing" begin. And they'll probably do it in the name of their own daughter.

Oh and I spent three weeks with 2 Mormons from Salt Lake on a nationwide high school trip to Russia in 1991 when I was 18. They freaked me the fuck out then, and every mormon I've spent any time with since, has freaked me the fuck out again.

But that's just me,

I'm sure her family is a good and loving family, and I've worked with Mormons before and didn't get the creepy vibe, but I agree with Michele in that her dad gives me a weird vibe. I don't think it has anything to do with what happened to Elizabeth or her not coming home. And her mom and the rest of the family seem OK. Maybe it's just his voice or personality?

They may or may not be weird. Whatever. My family is weird. I'm weird. No biggie.

What they really are is CHEAP. Paying a drifter $5 bucks to do a few hours work. Real nice. I hope they realize that it's partially their fault their daughter was kidnapped. Why would they ever take such a chance? WHo would let a freaky drifter near their kids voluntarily? , I would kill to keep freaky drifters away from my children.

Daniel: Um. The Book of Mormon never mentions polygamy and is not a manifesto for polygamy. (And Mormons refuted polygamy as a doctrine in the 1880s--over a hundred years ago.) And yeah, they believe that as spiritual children of God, they will eventually allowed to be gods themselves if they prove themselves worthy, but is that any more weird or illogical than Catholics believing in transubstantiation or certain Protestant sects believing in preordination?

(BTW, I was raised Mormon. I'm not currently LDS nor do I have any plans to return to the religion I was raised in, but it wasn't that bad really. I just think that every religion or dogma has things that look and sound weird to people who weren't raised in said religion or dogma. It's easy to focus on those things, but most of the LDS I know aren't religious fundy whackos--at least not any more than Lutherans, Baptists, Catholics, Presbyterians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, etc.)

Daniel: Why is it your opinion that Mormons are crazy because their leader "is a direct prophet to god"? Do you know for a fact that he was not? I don't. The only way I know Jesus was the son of God is through the Bible. Many believe that. Others believe that Mohammed is the son of God. Others Bhudda, others Confucious. The only way we will know who is right is to die and meet the maker.

A quote credited to Ghengis Khan, when asked why he allows all the religions in his empire: "In my empire we have worshipers of Bhudda, Confucious, Mohammed and Jesus Christ. Who am I to say who is right?"

BillH and Pfish,
First to BillH: I did not say mormons were crazy. Please, work on your reading comprehension. I was just pointing out how ironic it is that the media is using Elizabeth's kidnapper's belief that he is a prophet as an indicator of his loss of touch with reality. Or as one of the Smarts put it: " . . . he's got some really whacked out wierd religious views . . ." Yet the very basis that is used to demonstrate that the kidnapper is religiously whacked could easily be applied to the mormon church itself.

You missed my point and, you are right, the book of mormon does not mention polygomy specifically. However polygomy is taught in the mormon church doctrine as originally presented by its founder, Joseph Smith. Also, you are right in that the mormon church refuted polygomy . . . as a condition for being allowed statehood. It was one of those conveniant revelations by the mormon "prophet". (Now, the mormon church only relates polygomy as something that occures in the afterlife).Much like the revelation allowing people of color to be allowed into priesthood. Funny how these "revelations" coincide with political expediency, huh? Also, you, like BillH missed my point. I did not say in my post that mormons are any more wierd than Catholics or any other religion. I just pointed out that it is IRONIC and hypocritical that the Smart kidnapper's belief in polygomy and being a prophet, and his writing of his own religious doctrine are indicators of his lunicy. Words like "manifesto" and "cult" are thrown about. The very criteria that is used to describe him as such could easily be applied to the mormon church. The mormon church tries to convey itself as a "mainstream" religion when, in fact, it's far from mainstream. A church leader that is considered a prophet, good members will become gods, the god of earth is originally from a planet called kolab . . . these are all things that are NOT "mainstream". Now, I'm all for people believing what they believe in, I just doubt the judgement of those who believe such dribble. Also, my main point, is the hypocracy of pulling out hot words like, "manifesto", and "prophet", and "cult", to demonize an individual while all of these words could be applied to the mormon church. Elizabeth Smart's kidnapper is a low life schmuck. We don't have to resort to catchprases to point it out. Especially when the very catchphrases could easily be applied to the Smart family.

Daniel: I concede your point about the irony. But it's not the LDS church as an organisation who is throwing around those terms regarding the kidnappers--it's the news media. A news media which IS pointing out that Mitchell's background was LDS and he takes a lot of his whacky dogma from their teachings. A news media which likes the sensational aspect, and frankly the most sensational thing you can dredge up in Utah IS the polygamous history.

In any case, my post was merely intended to correct the misinformation regarding the Book of Mormon as a polygamous manifesto.

I'm not going to argue with on the logic behind their dogma--obviously as an ex-member I have my own issues with certain beliefs. But I think you unnecessarily cloud your point regarding the irony by bringing up the other issues you have with the culture.

I have my own hypothesis, though I haven't heard anything or even seen the parents on TV, so I can't comment on that. I've had experience with people with multiple personalities (or, rather, "dissociative identity disorder" as they call it these days) and Elizabeth's experience here definitely fits that pattern. The initial trauma of the kidnapping could be enough to create a schism in her personality, and the predisposition to the supplication of women in her religion could have lead to a willingness to accept his beliefs.

I'm surprised no one else has brought it up. But then, until we learn more, it's impossible to say. However, since they have brought sexual charges against the kidnappers, then it's hard to say if much of the details here will become public.

I am not a Mormon, but it grieves me whenever I hear people putting down this group of individials. They are, for the most part, honest and hardworking people. I do not accept their claim that Joseph Smith was a prophet because there is no proof of that. By proof, I mean that the 7 Biblical tests of a prophet were not manifested by Joseph Smith. But even though I disagree with their theology, it is not right to put these people down like some have here. Let them live their lives as they see fit.

As a woman who was a member of the LDS church for 32 years - and has left it - I am of the opiniion that any group, church or otherwise, who has polygomy in it's history and in it's future (as in the next life) will NEVER treat women with respect. At best, in the LDS church, women are patronized. At worst, they are culturally and socially "trained" to be meek and subserviant. I could no longer tolerate the culture.