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to the protesters

Dear protesters,

Thank you for giving more power to our already powerful enemy.

As useful idiots go, you have certainly earned your stripes.

Now that Saddam has that extra ego stroke as well as an abundance of arrogance thanks to you, let's see just how much more difficult he makes the job of the inspectors you love so much.

See, he thinks you are on his side. You claim you're not, but I'm seeing otherwise.

Anyhow, thanks for making the disarming Iraq even more difficult. Too bad you will only take your head out of your asses when it's too late.

P.S. Did anyone figure out how much litter the eight million protesters left behind yesterday?


Listed below are links to weblogs that reference to the protesters:

» Protest Recap from dcthornton.blog
In addition to the various anti-war protests worldwide (Baghdad excluded, of course), the local contingent marched on the Strip [Read More]

» Finger in the Hornet's Nest from McGroarty's Periodical
Somebody in weblog land finally protests the protestors. [Read More]


I don't know about the anti-war protestors, but the anti-globalization folks left ALOT of litter. And graffiti too. I live in D.C., and after those folks left, this place was trashed. Complete with an anarchy symbol someone spraypainted on my bus stop, which really pissed me off. Stay home and vandalize your own city !

By feeding Saddam's fantasies that "the world is on his side" and encouraging him to defy the U.N., these idiots have succeeded only in making war MORE likely.


They will not speak out to protest the children Saddam kills.

They will not speak out about the tens of thousands of political prisoners he has executed, and continues to execute.

They will not speak out about the mutilations, the tortures.

And when you point this out to them, they become angry and say they do care. Yet somehow, it's never at the center of anything they have to say. It was never worth protesting, until we decided to put an end to it. Then, the protesting began in earnest.

Scanning through the weblogs, I'm seeing a lot of anti-war rhetoric, but no alternatives presented.

If any protestors are visiting this post, what are you proposing as the alternative if the US turns up damning evidence?

Do you think the US should stay out of the region altogether?

If not, do you endorse slowly starving the citizens with embargos instead of seeking to eliminate the heads and seize control quickly?

More warmongers!!! You guys must uphold the intelligent redneck mentality. You must put a stop to those who think outside of your hegemonic box. Please, narrow your minds further. The dumber you are, the easier it is to laugh at you.

A nice, related post on Instapundit. Tony Blair talks about the conditions in Iraq today.

Glenn Reynolds says he'd like to see some of the anti-war folks take responsibility for Iraq's likely internal outcome if left be.

I'll wager an alternative. More sanctions and embargoes. Hell, they've worked over the past few years. I hear Saddam couldn't build the 240 room palace he wanted and had to settle for a mere 233. If we keep adding sanctions, before you know it, he'll only have 32 houses left.

Meanwhile, the people suffer, but hey! it's better than an attack on the government.!

looks like Blair's days are numbered as PM of UK...


this is a very good article rebutting quite a bit of anti-war sentiments.......writtin 10/8/02, debunks the "1/2 million Iraqi children were killed because of sanctions, just leave poor widdle Saddam alone" attitude.

Just in case you want something to read.

Earl, if you're still reading, what do you propose as the best solution?

Well done. Keep reminding us that it is the peace creeps who have the blood of millions on their hands. Just as the pre-WWII peace creeps--the Oxford-pledgers, the isolationists, the pre-Barbarossa Left--enabled the Nazis and the Nips in their delusion that the West would not fight or that we would not fight well, so our cotemporary peace creeps are fostering similar false hopes among the Iraqis.

Gutless, anonymous trolls...

I will regret every soul that passes in this war, do you regret the souls Saddam has tortured to death during your appeasment?

Do you take any responsibility for anything at all?

War sucks. No sh*t. Do you have an answer that doesn't include submitting to the mullahs and becoming Muslim? Are you volunteering to be Uday's beyotch to save the rest of us from his perversion? I mean, something that would actually work.

I don't expect an answer... after all, you are an anonymous troll, without even the guts to sign your name...

punk-assed bitches piss me off

Speaking as someone who was at the protest in Austin yesterday, and walked the streets afterwards...and then walked the streets again today after a marathon here. I can say that the marathoners definitely left tons more trash. I saw virtually no trash left by the protesters, but piles and piles of half-empty gatorade bottles and plastic cups left by the marathoners.

As for a solution...it took us a long time to get where we are today, and it will take a long time to get out. It was a series of quick fixes that got us here, and quick fixes will continue to put more and more lives in jeopardy.

It works the same way collectively that it works when one is trying to stop the cycle of abuse in a family. First, you have to stop the circle of violence. You have to work with what you can directly influence. You can't end violence by employing more violence.

But I suppose you can close your eyes and plug your ears and say "Just bomb them and get it over with" for a long time before the problem eventually ends up interfering with your life. In that case, here's my message to you. I'm wondering if any of you have any answers. I'm guessing you don't.

And, I guess I don't understand why a group of people who are so high on our so-called freedom in this country that you are willing to kill people to give that freedom to them (an idea that would be laughable if you weren't deadly serious about it) seems to value so little the powerful statement that can be made with those very same freedoms.

And, Michele...it would have been a lot easier to disarm Iraq had we never armed them in the first place. I mean, if you're looking for someone to really blame.

it would have been a lot easier to disarm Iraq had we never armed them in the first place.

Right, like the chemical weapons...oh, sorry, wasn't us. So the nuclear facilities...oh, not us either. Then the ballistic missiles...nope. At least their tanks...T72s? Hmmm. Then the blast-resistant underground bunkers...drat. Still not us, but a lot of Europeans and Russians are trying to look inconspicuous about now.

Selling them low-tech outdated stuff in the 80s--most of which was used up or blown up by the end of the first Gulf war--doesn't have a damn thing to do with Saddam's threat to the world today. After all, the Soviets were our ally during WWII. That doesn't mean Hungary could or should blame us for the 1956 invasion.

Hm...you mean our European ALLIES...or the ones who we are trying to alienate?

Sorry...I tend to use "we" in the collective sense. I suppose it's the socialist pondscum mentality in me.

Then you should know not to lump the US with those who sell anything to anyone, not to mention those who enjoy the prospect of a terrorist regime posessing No Dong missiles.

Those European "allies" have alienated themselves, BTW. Apparently believing they have veto power over US policy, they are upset to learn this isn't the case. So they continue to meddle in the former African colonies, while chiding the US for unilateralism.

Drublood, just read your message. And you haven't convinced me one bit more about what is happening. You failed to answer any questions, only ask more of them.

Stopping the cycle of abuse is a poor analogy. If you think simply hugging Saddam and showing him love is the answer, YOU are the one with your eyes sewn shut. Years and years of sanctions have done nothing. Diplomacy has failed over and over. When do you wake up and realize that?

I feel nothing but sympathy for the Iraqi people. I wish no harm to any of them, nor to any Arab, Muslim, Christian, etc. Yet many of them hate me and my daughter and would slit her throat before giving a second thought. Go on and pretend that a hug will cure all that.

Sorry, I ain't signing my name to you guys. You scare me. How would I know you wouldn't declare war on me? Or burn crosses on my front lawn or something...

No, I troll anonymously for shits and giggles, so I can laugh at you morons...

Robb, it's interesting to note that you say that "many of them hate me and my daughter and would slit her throat before giving a second thought". How exactly do you know this? Did somebody from Iraq tell you this? It is also interesting that you think Iraq is full of people who should be bombed because they are intolerant and bigoted while you are of course tolerant and non-biased and simply want Iraq to be bombed for their own good - at least that's what your words seem to imply. If you take the time to think about it, you'll realize that Iraqi's are just like you - people who are just as much worried about themselves and their daughters and are thinking that the vicious Americans want to kill them all. We are all just people - killing innocent people is not the solution to anything. Plus, if it comes to that, who appointed the US monitor of the class? If you want to say "we want to be safe and that's why we want to neutralize Iraq", I ask you, who besides George Bush with his they-tried-to-kill-my-daddy, really think that Iraq will attack the US, honestly? If you are that scared of countries attacking you, what about North Korea (which is much closer to the US incidentally) which openly declares that it's continuing it's nuclear program? Why don't we just admit that this is all about the oil and not "liberating" the people of Iraq?

Er, yeah ... Robb, that last line was kinda creepy and weird.

About the oil? Are you that dense? Earl is chickenshit, so I don't take anything he says seriously but to those who provide some identity, I'll glady debate.

Yes, as a former Marine I spoke with several Iraqis. Horrifying lives they lead. Go to opendemocracy.net and read what Iraqi's have to deal with and their views on the subject. Depending on your perspective you will read what you want.

And all of you who think that the military simply walks in and bombs and kills every living thing are as blind as you claim the other side is. We prefer precision. Bombs are expensive. I was never instructed to kill civillians. I was always instructed to save them when possible, to treat the enemy with care. They surrendered because of that.

If it's about the oil, then why blame Bush. Blame Amaco or Shell. Or better yet, blame every single person who puts gas in their cars or rides a gas powered vehicle. If gas wasn't such a money making venture that you make it out to be, then there wouldn't be this war, right?

Get used to the creeps. Those who burn our flag as a morning tradition have no love for you.

P.S. If when I was serving in the Marines I had the option to protect only those I chose to, even Earl could sleep safe.

@!$&( ingrateful bastards sometimes, but your lives and those of your families were worth it.

I am the best part of Earl.

I am the best part of Bush

Robb, when you say "And all of you who think that the military simply walks in and bombs and kills every living thing are as blind as you claim the other side is. We prefer precision", does that also include all those "malfunctioning" missiles in Afghanistan that killed civilians? War is never precise - if anybody thinks that, they are deluded. You might try as much as you want to avoid killing innocents but you will always end up doing so - and in the end you will hear that "collateral damage" is to be expected. I don't agree - each and every life, whether it is US or Iraqi, soldier or civilian, is precious and we should not be so free in saying that somebody, somewhere else should be killed because otherwise they will kill us all since they hate us so much.

If you really talked to Iraqis Robb, you would know that they don't hate you or your daughter, that they are trying to live their own lives as best they can under really harsh circumstances. So why would you want any of them to be killed?

And if you notice, I didn't blame George Bush in my original comment (though I do in fact blame the Bush administration ...) for it being about oil. I said, that this is not about freedom, about safety or anything else but plain and simple about oil. I also see that you neatly side-stepped the North Korea issue - which does raise questions about why Iraq is the only military threat to the US if it wasn't about oil. But to answer your question about why blame the Bush administration instead of the consumers of oil, it's because you can't blame people for wanting oil but you can't justify invading another country just because you need oil - that's what I blame the Bush administration for. Might does not make it right for you to take whatever you want under any pretense you can think of and then disregard the human cost ...

I actually have some respect for the position of hawks who admit that it's really 'about the oil' (nobody posting here, that I've read) instead of hiding behind the charade of 'liberating the people of Iraq' or 'weapons of mass destruction'. I may disagree with their position, but at least it's a sensible one: in order for the US to remain dominant, it must have access to oil, especially as world oil production peaks and wanes.

Compare it to eating meat: there are lots of people who love to eat meat but can't bear to watch an animal be slaughtered, which is somewhat hypocritical. I think the hawks who ramble on about 'democracy' and 'weapons of mass destruction' are like those people in the context of the current situation.

Robb - Sorry, I wasn't clear earlier. Your 'throat slitting' comment was the creepy one.

Earl's not chickenshit. We're dealing with the internet here folks. Why would I want to give you my identity? Who the hell knows what I'm dealing with, ya know? Chickenshit? Half the crap people say on message boards and reply forums is chickenshit!!! I could say I'm someone and you wouldn't even know if it's true or not.

Look, if this war happens -- I hope y'all are right. Although I doubt it -- in my heart I know something's wrong with this picture. I've studied the Bush team too long to believe their hype -- found too many instances where they've been involved in sinister actions. Bush is literally an overpriviledged sociopath with no right or reason to be in the position he's in. Meanwhile, he's surrounded himself with the most right-wing, frighteningly fascists administration since Nixon. IMO they are biased toward the rich, they are in the pocket of energy etc. and they are antagonistic to democracy and civil liberties. I literally cannot believe that smart people don't see this. The media won't give you the true story because it's owned and operated by multi-national corporations that only care about the bottom line, therefore democracy suffers. You'll all call this liberal rhetoric and from your pov I'm sure it sounds that way. They frighten me, conservatives frighten me, I fear for democracy. I've been trolling alot of boards on this tipic for the last few days and I'm literally appalled by what I've seen. I'm frightened for america. Shit, I'm ashamed to be american. And that feeling has only grown since November of 2000. (I'm certainly no Clinton-lover either and I literally rejoiced when Gore bowed out). I'm ashamed to be in american because of they way in which unfettered capitalism has allowed the rich to rule the game and rig it to increase their power. America's not a democracy, it's not a republic, it's an oligarchy. I'm one of those real liberals who isn't just married to the powerful Democrats (there really only is one party). Hence my resentment for being accused of Clinton-supporting just because I'm anti-Bush. But some of y'all are so narrow-minded that you can't even comprehend a liberal who doesn't like Clinton! Who's silly, ignorant and naive now?

So, there it is. That's what Earl's about. I want to be proud to be an american again. I want to be able to call myself American... but it's not going to happen until somebody has the balls to stand up and make this country what it is supposed to be instead of facilitating the status quo power-structure. Some of you will call me anti-american. You're wrong. I really feel that the framers of the constitution are rolling in their graves (unless they really were just a bunch of slave-owning, aristocratic, hypocrites who only wanted power for rich, male landowners.

pps -- excuse the profanity earlier. I literally thought that I was posting to somebody elses blog. Not that it makes a difference. I had two windows open and with all these different pop-up suckers I switched it on y'all.

Everything else I said I meant though.

And I still dont' agree with y'all!!! ;-)

Earl, I'd be more than happy buy a plane ticket and ship your socialist loving ass to France. People like you make me sick. Another prime example of why I believe the draft should be reinstated.

Earl wishes he was George Clooney. He is one of those hate america crowd who demand their rights and refuse either to respect those of others or to defend those rights. If you hate it so much here why don't you go act as a human shield? I'll donate a ticket.

I'm glad that I make you sick, ds. It makes me happy to know that. Please, be sick. Let it eat at you.

"Ouch, people who think not like me. Hurt brain. Why they so bad?!"

There's no need to reinstate the draft then there're so many brain-washed, enlistable people like you. America's got enough of a standing army and a draft is unnecessary and wrong.

Vietnam guaranteed that a draft will never be possible again in the U.S. Sure, get a bunch of people and force them into an intensive military service against their will so that maybe you can use them as human shields when you wage an unjust war.

By the way, I'd like to think of myself more as a "social democrat."

Man, I had a friend once who said the same shit that you did. I thought he was a moron and we don't really talk anymore (he's one of those people who actually believe in the freedom of capitalism and the righteousness of america -- enough to make you vomit, like a disney movie).

Last time I checked this was america. Last time a checked this was something of a democracy. Last time I checked I was well within my rights to voice my opinion and try to make things better if enough people agreed with me. You don't. That's cool. But you don't know me, you don't know what I think or what I know or what I've done.

But heaven help you small-minded folk if an actual progressive comes along. You must be rich or well-off, that must be why you're so enamoured with the "status-quo."

I know, I know that's an unfair assumption, but why else would you be so narrow-minded? ;-)

TJ, I'm not sure if I'd want to be George Clooney from the "Facts of Life" period, or maybe right before he left "ER." Although, I dig that "Ocean's 11" period. There are other people I'd rather be, though.

Come to think of it. I like being me.

Earl, I don't believe you. Not one.

I heard your lament "I'm just an embarrassed American" too often not to be highly suspicious...especially in light of the same specious talking points you engage in.

I heard that A.N.S.W.E.R. was engaging in spamming, I think it's possible you're in on it.

From the top. If it was ONLY about oil, then the US would have just taken Kuwait when we had it. Or taken over Mexico. Or... well you get it. Does oil play a factor? Damned right. One has a megalomanaic who had no trouble torching the oil fields of Kuwait was his looting/pillaging/raping soldiers fled in front of the US army..what makes anyone think he has rigged the biggest enviromental disaster beyond that with Iraq's oil fields?

But you know all this, don't you Earl? You just want to flame with the "ooooo, you nasty-poo RICH guy!" crapola. Just more cliches that truly show your anti-West agenda.

Are there legit peace marchers? Probably. But while I give them a by for being dupes in January of the Stalinists and Maoists that funded and organized the marches..I don't any longer. Not once have I seen one "Saddam must abdicate for peace" poster in ANY of those marches. Even leftwinger Michael Lerner got his eyes opened when he was unceremoniously booted from speaking at the rally because, well, he's too Jewish for ANSWER. And that's what this "peace" march was bottom line about... anti-American, anti-Semitie, pro-Saddam. THAT IS THE STATUS quo the marchers were about.

Oooh, now I'm an A.N.S.W.E.R. spammer? Oh the intrigue!

Actually, I'm just some schlep who's mosied over to A.N.S.W.E.R.'s websites a few times, I agree with some of their stuff (not all), but other than that, these are my thoughts (as influenced, no doubt, from things I've read, conclusions I've drawn, etc.). A.N.S.W.E.R. actually frightens me a little, to tell you the truth. Any group that is organized tightly makes me a little nervous because you need to be weary of their agenda. I've studied propaganda enough to know that most groups have an agenda and you need to be weary of that all the time when dealing with political rhetoric. It's the lack of that type of awareness in this country that allows groups like the corporate interest and Republicans AND dangerous leftist groups to grab a stranglehold on virtually misinformed people who know everything on Access Hollywood but couldn't name the two senators from their own state. But I digress...

I've actually been a skeptic american ever since I learned about slavery and u.s. treatment of the Native American's back in my grade school history classes. It all slid downhill from there. McCarthy would've loved me if I was of age in the 50s. I haven't trusted the U.S. gov't since I've been old enough to understand the paradoxes (this isn't to say that other countries aren't as hateful in their own ways, they are). Couple that with intesive years of poli-sci, media and cultural studies and that pretty much explains my viewpoint.

The fact that I don't like gluttonous rich assholes makes me anti-west? Can I be pro-west, but against what fuels and rules america at this moment in history? Can you wrap your head around that one, deary?

Christ, A.N.S.W.E.R. spam...lol... I actually stumbled on this site by way of another blog that linked to another blog.... etc. I'm innocent, Senetor McCarthy, I'm innocent I tell ya!!!

And don't be a smart-arse about the typos, it's late...

Seeing all of the "anti-war" protesters reminds me of how so many so-called Americans live in the United States.
Protesters - Let me ask you this -
shortly after 911, did you buy anything with the saying "We Will Not Forget". Might I remind you - "How Soon We Forget" about the pack we ALL made to stomp out "ANYONE" that would do this to us again? What do you think stomping out terrorists ment? It did not mean sending flowers to Iraq. Let me also ask you this - How did you feel when Saddam set fire to all of the oil fields, when he realized he lost the Golf War? Protesters, in my book, have no friends and look to ANYONE or ANY cause to bring the "lime light" onto themselves, rather than seeing the truth for what it truly is. Shame on you.


This is better than television

From earl's posts I have come to the following opinion:

1. He is a college student or high school student who still resides under the protection of mommy and daddy. This could also mean one who has never owned a house, worked paycheck to paycheck or had any responsibility other than tasks that benifit ones self

2. Has been shielded from conflict his entire life and been given the false impression that people like him have made this country what it is.

3. Dream of the day when everyone is equal...when realizes said statement is false cries like a little bitch and demand that the government do something about it.

You sit behind your computer and try to project yourself as an intelectual. I at least would take up arms to protect the insignificant that I have. I do not hate the rich, I do not envy those who have had better luck than I. I value a system of government and a constitution that protect me. I'm not saying that the gov't cares, I'm saying that I will never be killed for saying what I feel or believe For that right I offer my respect.

Wake up. Utopia does not exist. Communism and pure socialism has and will always fail. (notice I said pure sociliasm. Capitalism and Social should allways go hand in hand)

While you may have heard this before and no doubt have thumbed your nose at those have done. I would take up arms to protect your right to spout such BS.

I'll go back to watching my NASCAR, drinking beer, hunting or what ever is considered "redneck".

I've hear it all before ds (or should I say bs, har har). I earn my keep. I'm a good little worker bee for society. I just have my opinions. Look, I'm not advocating communism -- I'm not so naive as to think that capitalism is going to go away. And I like what you said about capitalism and social going hand in hand. I truly do. But be careful about assumptions. They're often wrong. I have no idea what you do and who you are other than that you are fairly conservative and pretty strong in your beliefs. That's as far as my assumption's going to go because I don't care enough to guess any further. (I'll take back the redneck stuff -- that was presumptous).

I don't envy those with better luck. But I know that luck is part of this system. It's the gluttony, the fact that some people have so much while some have nothing, the usual sob story. The fact that our society has a darwinian aspect to it that encourages such gluttony. It's all about me -- that mentality. It bothers me. But I don't envy what I don't want. I have security (for the most part). My family eats and we have some "nice things." In some ways I feel a little hypocritical. But I'd rather donate money to charity than buy a luxury car. That's what I mean by gluttony. Some people are beyond help, but give me an excuse for the gluttony that I see. They earned it? Bullshit. This has always bothered me. It's a question of values and priorities. There are those with blind faith in the american dream -- I don't see it. Some people bust their asses and they don't get anything. While some, like shrub, are born into royalty. It's a waste of time hating it, but I still do.

Hunting is definitely redneck. Ted Nugent hunting is fucking insane...

Here Here DS.

You have to be strong, to carry the weak. We will lose lives, there is no doubt about that. So will Iraq. Sacrifice, is only one building block that this country was formed on. It comes with the right to be free.

Earl just doesn't get it. Maybe when he grows up, he will understand.

Earl, I although our opinions may differ I respect your last post. I did not see it earlier, but I think we are more alike than previously believed. I think this argument has been ruled a draw. You share many of the values that I hold. I think we can agree to disagree on on the smaller details. I appologize if I came accross as brash, but I get a little emotional about some things. My little brother and a good friend have been activated so I tend to get a bit defensive. By the way...I always eat what I kill and never kill more than I can eat. I love hunting. The nuge is a bit on the extreme, but I'm I'm glad he is there to counter the other side.

Do we have a truce?

Truce it is. I came off pretty shitty in the beginning too. I just stumbled here and found all this liberal bashing and my retalliation button kicked into overdrive. It's harsh because while I know there are multiple agendas at stake, a good number of those people were there for something in their hearts (as I know some good people who disagree with me are, as well).

As for your little brother and your friend. My prayers go out to them. Let's hope that they won't have to deal with anything there, that some miracle occurs in the mean time. And contrary to what it might seem, I respect them, it's the leaders I have a problem with. The soldiers are doing their duty and following their chosen path. As much as I respect the Vietnam protesters, I am appalled at the fact that some took out their aggression on returning soldiers. There is no reason for that. Because even when they're fighting wars I don't agree with, even when I despise their leaders,I despise what they're doing, these people are the reason you and I can have this discussion right now -- and that fact isn't lost on me. So let's get them back home.

So, it's a truce and a draw.

Thanks, peace and good night.

I find this quote from Earl just so telling - this is the attitude that's really driving the whole anti-war movement:

"he's one of those people who actually believe in the freedom of capitalism and the righteousness of america -- enough to make you vomit, like a disney movie"

I bet you don't think French, Germans, Palestinians, or anyone else are geeky, corny or uncool for believing in their own country or system or values. So why mock Americans who do?

Classic troll technique - two anonymous posters who disagree vehemently then come to an agreement in the end, thus lending an air of legitimacy to the argument. I don't buy it.

It's about the oil all right - the multimillion dollar sweetheart deal that Saddam bought TotalFinaElf with. The only way US oil interests could profit is by increasing oil prices. That's not going to happen by increasing the supply from Iraq.

Ban Earl's IP, Michell.

Name withheld (this time) to protect me from blogger-troll spam.

DAMN venturi (verizon's wireless' buffering software). It messed up and I had to repost... but forgot to take out my email address this time.

Look, I'm not anonymous, Owen, not more than you -- what takes away my anonymity? My e-mail address? -- look, it's there. Otherwise, you're just as anonymous to me. And that's fine. Because this is the INTERNET!!

Fine, I don't agree with most of you here. Fine, I came off a little to strong. I explained in my earlier post to the other anonymous person (crap, you're all anonymous to me) why I was so obnoxious. It was a bit of culture shock. You guys are so harsh on the people you call "liberal." It's like this personal vitriol. I've been to quite a few liberal sites and blogs and the focus of anger is quite different. While conservatives are loathed and mocked and disdained, the bulk of the anger is directed towards those in power -- not very often to those citizens who believe in that power (granted, in my earlier posts I tossed some of the same behavior back, but it was a knee-jerk, "fuck you" reaction). All of your posts are directed at a group of people -- in a way it's rather prejudicial and almost sounds like racism (yet, instead of an ethnic group you hate "liberals"). There's a frightening anger and disrespect you have for people who you lump into that category. Maybe that's what liberals need, maybe they need to tap into that righteous anger and cruelty that the conservative right so effectively uses.

If I'm gutless for not providing more information about myself than I do, it's because, frankly, I wouldn't want people who feel that way about my type of people to know who I am. The ultimate difference is I knock a system that I don't believe in, for the most part I knock those in power. Conversely, you desperately cling to that system (right or wrong) and attack those who would poke holes in it. (this is a generalization, but you get the point -- I know you all aren't unchanging in your beliefs, and your faith may not be blind). Who's right? Who's wrong? Not my place to judge, not yours either. Opinions are like assholes, my friend, everyone has one, and everyone thinks everybody else's stinks.

And Ralph, about French, Germans, Palestinians, and their patriotism... I don't know what it's like to be among them, on the inside. I know what it's like to be an american and not believe in that system. That's my subjectivity. I will say that strong nationalism frightens me a bit from anyone. That's what fuels most wars, religion, nationalism, powerlust and money. No thanks.

I just hope that that snow in the Northeast wasn't a terrorist action...

(all typos are courtesy of earl)

Not a troll Owen.

Perhaps I should have said "unfamiliar" instead of "anonymous". The nature of the internet is that we are all basically anonymous, until we have established ourselves in any given community or provided a link to our own homepage for background on our positions. Neither you or DS seem to fit either of those categories as far as I can see. That doesn't make you trolls, but your behavior fits the mold.

Unfortunately I can't point to my homepage (don't have one) or any significant contributions to this community either. On the other hand, I am not the one who came charging in here flinging insults at strangers. If you had taken the opportunity to read a little bit of this blog you would understand the context of this entry (it was a rant, written in response to vitriolic anti-war rhetoric). You might have also discovered that Michele has supported her position extensively with facts and reason over the course of many months. Those of us who are aware of all that background are not going to find unsupported invective to be a convincing alternative.

There is a difference between greed and evil. The anti-war protestors have used their voices to proclaim moral equivalency between genocidal murderers and duly elected public servants. You may not like Bush - in fact I don't trust him very far myself - but there is a vast gulf between anything he could ever conceivably accomplish within the limits of the US govt checks and balances even if he were irrevocably evil (which I don't for a moment believe) and the reign of torture, rape, and murder that has distinguished the careers of the tyrannical despots to which Saddam Hussein is a worthy heir.

By the way, your rhetoric misses me entirely. I am both a Liberal and a Democrat. The difference between you and me is that I believe that imperfection does not destroy the worth of my nation. I freely admit that the US has plenty of room for improvement, but that even in all our failures, we are still better than any nation that has ever stood on the face of the Earth. Our intentions are good and we are constantly working to improve ourselves. Empire and hegemony rhetoric doesn't impress me either when we are the only nation in history to have ever used our unopposable conquering might to help our erstwhile enemies to rebuild their own sovereignty and then withdraw.

I do not have a home page. I am a conservative with liberal tendancies. I believe that the war is justified. The hate that burns within me for those who killed our inocent rages with out calm. I belive that sadam is the enemy and I have felt this before 9-11. I do however listen to what the other side has to say and will give merit when equal ground has been reached. I'm not hard line. I listen(read) with out predijuce. As I stated in my last post, I do not agree with all what earl has said. I do however relate to some of his ideals. This is why I drew the truce. You cannot live life and expect that everyone agrees with you. I have a very good friend who is on the left. Trust me, at times I have wanted to rip his throat out, but we have agreed to disagree. That is all that I ask. Its respect for ones opinion that I hold. I don't always agree with it, but I'll listen. Again, I do not have a web page to post a URL and I do not post my email. I'm a vengefull asswhole who wouldn't think twice about forwarding every piece of spam I have collected for the past year to those who send flaming emails.

Those goddam Iraqis. Is anybody in the middleast civilized. There will never be democracy as long as the arabs carry ak-47 down the street evreywhere they go