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here come the conspiracy theories

It didn't take long for the cretins to crawl out from under their rocks. I don't know why I went looking for them - I guess I just smelled the stink and had to see what it was.

From Democratic Underground:

What's bush up to?
I am not afraid to say this -

I guess bush's SOTU speech went over so poorly, he needed a disaster to distract us from his horrible actions and lies.

I am getting sick of this bull. How many more Americans must die for bush to look legit? How often will he need to kill to keep up his legitimacy?

How convenient that the first Israeli citizen was on the shuttle, too. Everybody rally behind Sharon and don't question or speak against him, either.


And another:

arwalden (5997 posts) Feb-01-03, 10:19 AM (ET) Shuttle Tragedy: How Fortunate For Bush Now he can get on camera with a tearful and heartfelt message about how they were brave heroes who "touched the face of god" (or some other Reaganesque drivel written for him) and lo-and-behold... ALL AMERICA WILL ADORE BUSH AGAIN. How fortunate that he gets to rally America for yet another tragedy that occured under his watch.

He'll get to play the comforting and wise father-figure. (I think I'm going to be sick!)

It ruly believe these people have no souls.

TrackBack

Listed below are links to weblogs that reference here come the conspiracy theories:

» And Away They Go... from dcthornton.blog
The conspiracy theorists and media bias begin to abound. Michele reports of fresh lies being served at Democratic Underground. Via [Read More]

» ... from Inoperable Terran
The space shuttle Columbia appears to have broken up on re-entry, and all crew members are believed dead including astronauts [Read More]

» Columbia from Sofia Sideshow
Just before time this disaster occurred, I lost contact with the CNN and Turner Satellites. Only by channel surfing did I catch CNBC's coverage. Only CNBC is working at this time in Bulgaria. Strange. Probably nothing, but strange. UPDATE: Still no sig... [Read More]

» The Blogosphere Covers the Columbia Disaster from greeblie blog
- A Small Victory: Michele's original post and the repulsive fallout from the Deomcratic Underground creeps. - The Ghost of [Read More]

» "Democratic Underground" Pussbags Accuse Bush of Blowing Up Columbia from Tocq Magazine TocqLogBlog
It only took minutes for the sub-human scum at the Democratic Underground to accuse President Bush of deliberately blowing up [Read More]

» Another tragedy from The People's Republic of Seabrook
We waited for the shuttle to land, and it never came. It was one of those terrible moments that will forever be burned in my memory.... It was about 8.30 on a quiet Saturday morning. I was puttering around the house in my pajamas, nursing a cup of co... [Read More]

» Disturbing Breaking News from American RealPolitik
NASA: Shuttle Lost Over Texas Mission Control : "Columbia was at an altitude of 200,700 feet over north-central Texas at a 9 a.m., traveling at 12,500 mph when mission control [Read More]

» We've lost another Space Shuttle. from Stupid Evil Bastard
Shuttle reportedly explodes over Texas. Not thought to be terrorism, no indication of trouble. The shuttle appears to have broken up in flight at 200,000 feet. Looks like the space agency will be screwed for another decade. You can keep track of the de... [Read More]

» Wingnuts from On The Third Hand
While everyone is busy being upset at the radical left (see a small victory), I thought, just to give some [Read More]

» Loony Leftists Already Accusing Bush of Shooting Down Shuttle from Little Tiny Lies
"Kneejerk" is a Misnomer, Because a Real Kneejerk Takes More Time and Thought Via Spleenville, A Small Victory relays disgusting [Read More]

» Shuttle Columbia Lost from Oscar Jr. Was Here
Bad news. Fox News is showing footage of the breakup and discussing stories of debris over east Texas. Damn. My condolences to the families and friends of the crew of the Columbia. InstaPundit has lots of interesting thoughts up already.... [Read More]

Comments

After the initial rush of contempt, what do you feel about such people?

Nothing. There's nothing to feel. Contempt? Pity? It's more than they deserve.

A soul so choked with hate is ugly to see.

No, Bush wouldn't kill them, there was a Jew on board, and we know Bush is owned by the Jews, right?

Pathetic.

Such cynicism is usually the result of being force-fed lies for so long that they can't see a true tragedy when it happens.

The left wing was supposedly damaged during take-off and breeching the atmosphere

Check out Instapundit...some CBC announcer just asked if this was caused by America's "arrogance."

Jackass.

Please, let me get my hands on one of these guys. I think I'd qualify as temporarily insane.

I don't know whether it is pms, being a little hung over or just feeling horribly sad about this entire stituation with our country but Dean's statement (A soul so choked with hate is ugly to see) just made me burst into tears. I suddenly have a tight ball in my chest. I like to live in my happy little, nothing can happen to me/my family/my friends world but that statement just opened my eyes to alot of things that I think I was trying to foolishly ignore. Thank you Dean - I think.

Michele said all there could be said about such evil commentors: They have no soul.

If the slimeballs had souls, the corrosion of almost 6000 posts at DU would have eaten them away.

I went thru the trouble of registering at DU to challenge the idiot. My post was deleted in

With this kind of enemies Bush doesn't need friends.

I think I have finally become sickened by the damned Democratic Underground. Bastards. I am SO angry just from reading those comments.

Why are we all complaining and criticizing? I'll tell you what I said when Danny Glover started puking about the U.S. deserving 9/11. I said we should be grateful, because when leftist idiots spew this offensive crap, they unmask themselves and create a record we can later use to judge them.

That is just sick. How can people up with the tripe. Astronauts, to my knowledge and I could be wrong, do not have any political aspirations. These are people who have dreamt of going into space since they were kids, who have worked so hard to get to place where they my fulfill their dreams. Tying in conspiracy theories is sick and twisted, and shows such a lack of respect for the people and their families. This is a tragedy and should be treated as such.

It feels a little odd for me to be saying this -- I'm usually one of the hotheads leading the charge -- but take heart, friends: by their own words, these creatures have proved that they're not worth the salt in your tears.

A Martian would disbelieve that they belonged to the same species as the crew of Space Shuttle Columbia. It's okay to ignore them.

It suddenly occured to me that these people are utter fools.

After all, the Vice President is in charge of the space program. So obviously Bush couldn't have done this, it would have been Cheney.

He's pure evil anyway, you know.

Oh how disgusting. I think I agree: They simply have no souls.

Is there a point where you drop the "1st Amendement" non-sense, track some of these people down and beat the living crap out of them for being disgusting ghouls?

The gleeful cackle in their twisted commentary is sickening. Wish I had the skills to take these assholes off line. Anyone?

Remember, kids, Bush is so evil that he would blow up the space shuttle to distract people from his sinister plans to kill big-eyed Iraqi children so his oil friends can heat their homes with thousand dollar bills. He is utterly bloodthirsty and ruthless.

And yet I am not afraid to speak up! Ha! Ha! Ha! I am so brave! Wait---or is it stupid?

Dean's right. These people are not even worth my contempt.

Steve M: I just wrote something very much like your sentiment on my blog. This is the kind of thing that makes me year for that reckless, wild kid I was when I was 18. That kid might have done something satisfying, like find one of them and issue a gang-style beatdown.

Then again, that kid might not have cared so much about the men and women on the shuttle Colombia.

In the end, I think we prove ourselves as decent folks by our obvious compassion, and by our open contempt for people like the nuts at D.U.

I'm disgusted. Let's just leave it at that.

I can agree with one of the quotes in that second post:

I think I'm going to be sick!

Yeah, me too. Because I read your post.

I have an opposite conspiracy theory: there is a secret organization, composed evenly of nazis and communists and terrorists and peacenicks, that is just waiting for any occasion to offend, disturb, subvert, spread confusion, despair, anger, chaos. They do not stop in front of any moral law or natural intelligence. They just hate. None of them will ever do anything valuable. They just hate.
Honor to the Fallen Heroes , they sacrificed themselves for the progress of all mankind. May the Light give peace to their families.

Why did I become a conservative?

This, ladies and gentlemen, is why I became a conservative.

I'm sorry, but this is disgusting. How can people jump to those kind of conclusions?

sigh.

The left is showing its true colors. This just makes me sick to my stomach.

KADDISH

Yis'ga'dal v'yis'kadash sh'mey ra'bbo, b'olmo dee'vro hir'oosey v'yamlich malchoo'sey, b'chayeychon oov'yomeychon oov'chayey d'chol beis Yisroel, ba'agolo oo'viz'man koriv; v'imroo Omein.

Y'hey shmey rabbo m'vorach l'olam ool'olmey olmayo.

Yisborach v'yishtabach v'yispoar v'yisromam v'yisnasey, v'yis'hadar v'yis'aleh v'yis'halal, shmey d'koodsho, brich hoo, l'eylo min kol birchoso v'sheeroso, toosh'bechoso v'nechemoso, dee ameeron b'olmo; v'imroo Omein.

Y'hey shlomo rabbo min sh'mayo, v'chayim aleynoo ve'al kol Yisroel; v'imroo Omein.

Oseh sholom bimromov, hoo ya'aseh sholom oleynu, ve'al kol Yisroel; v'imroo Omein.

TRANSLATION OF KADDISH

May the great Name of God be exalted and sanctified, throughout the world, which He has created according to his will. May His Kingship be established in your lifetime and in your days, and in the lifetime of the entire household of Israel, swiftly and in the near future; and say, Amen.
May His great name be blessed, forever and ever.
Blessed, praised, glorified, exalted, extolled, honoured, elevated and lauded be the Name of the Holy One, Blessed is He - above and beyond any blessings and hymns, praises and consolations which are uttered in the world; and say Amen. May there be abundant peace from heaven, and life, upon us and upon all Israel; and say, Amen.

He who makes peace in His high holy places, may He bring peace upon us, and upon all Israel; and say Amen.

i dont know what else to say.......im very sorry folks

I wish I was a hacker and could just take that sick fuck of a website down. If I were a millionare I'd pay someone to do it. Assemble a team of chinese hackers and tell em to do their best. . . money is no object.

Anyone know any hackers who need a challenge?

this is what happens when you get a bunch of people together who insulate themselves from other viewpoints. the fact that they delete posts proves it.

What a bunch of asshats.

Thanks for pointing out these morons. However, I won't let them crowd my mind today. Today my thoughts belong to the crew of STS-107, not the conspiracy theorist dickweeds.

why hack them? let them be...from the sickness of places like that, you'll find people who realize how fucked up it is, and they'll leave. How many people do you know who were democrats who have been disgusted by what their fellows have been saying and doing? there's no need to try to stop them....it strengthens my own soul and beliefs to see and hear them.

Let's not forget that many have gone in harm's way to preserve the right to spew this bile. Let them think they could do this in Iraq or one of their other favorite places. Maybe some of them will be redeemed some day by a stark dose of reality.

That said, I'm like Jim, fighting the urge to find some of these slugs (one-at-a-time at my age) and show em a few cases of whupass.

marc,Thank you so much for the Kadish prayer:
it is so beautiful and strengthens my faith at this awful moment!
I can only pray that these 7 brave Heroes soared to God in Heaven on the wings of eagles and I also pray for their families and loved ones that are left to mourn.
Am Yisrael Chai.
God Bless America.

Nice blessing, Marc. I even got out my menorah and lit 7 candles. And one big white one. it's all intent and mine is with the souls of these brave people and their families. I learned absolute hatred for the first time in my life on 9/11. I am struggling to not add to it the hatred I am feeling for those posters on "that site". It sickens my heart absolutely. All I can do is shake my head. Blessings to the brave souls and for all of us suffering this tragedy.

The ghoulishness has already started on Ebay.

This person who wrote this pathetic comment is truly closed-minded, ignorant, and quite heartless.

How dare you make such a irrelevant, and stupid accusation. Aparently, you have not been watching the news, or you would have seen what was happening. The shuttle was moving too fast, and was too high in the air for it to have been bombed with a missle. Cape Canavaral is so tight with security after the 911 attacks, that even the most intellegent terrorist could not get through to even look as a visitor. What it looks like is a problem with the shuttle, and I believe that the age of the shuttle may have played a part.

And what really astonishes me is that someone would even print something so cruel and not relevant to the situation. I would have more respect if there were a condolence letter. Where has the sense people gone?

How about thinking about the families of the astronauts that are trying to absorb what has transpired? How about feeling what the children of the crew members are feelling, the questions they are asking, the fear and lack of comprehension of what has happened the younger children may have? Our thoughts, prayers, and condolences should be with them. To wast time printing something so heartless, filled with a persons ignorance is totally uncalled for at this time.

My prayer is that God will touch the heart of that person... that she may have some feeling, and her brain.... that she may think with logic and some decency. This is a national day of tragedy, and she need to respect that.

First of all, that "touched the face of god" wasn't some "Reaganesque drivel", it was from the poem "High Flight", found here:

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/history/prewwii/jgm.htm

Isn't it interesting that America can never suffer any accidental tragedies during Republican administrations? I guess it's not possible for mechanical failures to happen unless the VRWC plans it. If only conservatives could use their complete control of the universe for good instead of evil.

I've seen equally repugnant stupidity on Free Republic. There's enough dumb to go around.

Blind, insane, conspiracy-minded hatred of a president goes a long way towards discrediting one's cause. Rather than issuing a tu quoque defense of the DU (and the C-Span callers who said the shuttle disaster was God's way of punishing Bush), sensible Dems like Oliver would better serve their party by denouncing this kind of talk.

I must have missed the part where this was an official statement from the Democratic party or any Democratic politician. Oh, wait, it was some crank on the Internet. The only people who get up in arms and feel like they should smear the left with stupidity because of these things are people who already have their minds closed and made up.

Agreed, Oliver - if memory serves, a lot of folks on the right accused Clinton of wagging the dog as well to take attention off his personal and political failures.

Can't we let these seven people be mourned for five goddamn minutes before we start politicizing the event? Trust me, there's plenty of time for that later.

I feel dirty even posting this..

Guess what was just put on eBay? Guess what took down 1 minute later?

People are capbale of such compassion, and yet can be animals.

sorry for even posting this, folks..

The cranks will dominate the Democratic discourse, Oliver, just as the right-wing cranks came to dominate the Republican discourse during the 90's. Decency in politics (and such a thing can exist) depends on self-policing by each side. In light of this, I'm waiting to see a group of Democrats break off from DU to form their own group the way Lucianne took her community off of FR.

Matthew, you're seeing what you want to see. And Lucianne.com is far from enlightened.

I see comment like this a bit differently.
After my initial reaction of wanting to stuff a large explosive device up their butt, I have to laugh at them.

They live (or think they live) in an immoral universe. The wicked succeed, while they, the virutous and oh so much smarter than the rest of us, fail and are recognized for the great minds they are. Heartless, souless minds, that live in a universe that constantly slams them and screws them over. Their failures are of course not their fault, their inability to persuade is the fault of the "morons" who listen and not the bile they constantly spew.

They and their ideologies are losers. The entire universe conspires against them, takes away their rightful victories and successes. And leaves them the pathetic hate filled sociopaths we see displayed by these postings.

Or to put it differently, white is black, up is down, and left is right. Always right, never to be questioned or disagreed with. Compassion is for wimps, people are mere "social constructs", and the pain they feel must be vented and poison as many others as possible.

Yes, Lucianne.com is boring and amounts to little more than a Hillary-bashing session on most days, but when Ms. Goldberg created her own website, there was a public acknowledgement that FR was getting out of hand. I don't even see you acknowledging that about DU.

And Oliver, we all see what we want to see -- we have ideological lenses. You will always see racists when you see Republicans, and I will always see political childishness when I look at the extreme left or extreme right.

It's better to pay those people you quoted at DU no mind. They're already dead, if not in body then in spirit.

As with any web technology, I am sure they have vulnerabilities. But thats not relevent. I haven't taken a look at their website headers, but the service they are using DCA.net for thier webhosting allows unix and windows hosting, which means they are most likely compitent and thought out security wise.

First attacking the technology of a site is really pointless, they can be back up and running in no time if thier administrator has a brain bigger than a nutshell

You are usally better off filing a complaint with such an organization with thier service provider. A site full of such things such as slander makes them nervous, becasue when such a problem is discovereed they have to do something about it. Most providers would perfer to stay away from possible litigation, so they dump people like this.

You can always call up the administrator of the site, and voice your concern over the content of his as well, at any time of the day or night.

The Administrative Contact seems to operate a site called onlineworkshops.com, Some sort of Flash based learning tool branded in with some what appears to be network marketing.

Well here is the registrant info

Registrant:
DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND, LLC (BUCKDCLJYD)
1612 20th Street, NW, Suite 401
Washington, DC 20009
US

Domain Name: DEMOCRATICUNDERGROUND.COM

Administrative Contact:
Allen, David (CBOBIMYYNI) mail@DEMOCRATICUNDERGROUND.COM
DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND, LLC
1612 20th Street, NW, Suite 401
Washington, DC 20009
US
202-667-2404
Technical Contact:
Administration, Domain (DA21999) dns@DCA.NET
DCANet
1204 West Street
Wilmington, DE 19801
US
302-654-1019 302-426-1568

Record expires on 05-Dec-2010.
Record created on 14-Jun-2002.
Database last updated on 1-Feb-2003 15:05:38 EST.

Domain servers in listed order:

NS1.DCA.NET 204.183.80.2
NS2.DCA.NET 207.245.82.2

You're right Paul. I think we mostly reference DU to get into a umbrage competition amongst ourselves. (It feels good to vent, eh?) DU and IndyMedia crossed the line of decency years ago -- and for them, there's no turning back.

That said, what's far more troubling to me are the number of Ebay sale stories floating around. Blind partisanship I can understand, but how disgusting can people get to sell the shuttle parts on Ebay?

I don't even see you acknowledging that about DU
I guess calling them stupid doesn't qualify?

You will always see racists when you see Republicans
That's patently untrue. I see some Republicans as racist, hell - some Democrats too. I've given George Bush a lot of credit for NOT being racist, even though it would appeal to many in his constituency. But lets not let facts get in the way.

I will always see political childishness when I look at the extreme left or extreme right
Ditto.

>>"Is there a point where you drop the "1st Amendement" non-sense, track some of these people down and beat the living crap out of them for being disgusting ghouls?"

I have a better idea, two words....

Soylent Green

To change the subject just a tad, Oliver, quite a few of the LGF comments I've read today can give the DU creeps a run for the money on the political indecency factor. Seven heroes died today, but children are still playing political army. Sigh.

I generally loathe and despise most comments on DU. Be that as it may, I must commend Skinner the DU Admin for his post, requesting that today we respect the families and not spout conspiracy theories. The few posts I came across that were shrill were generally slapped with more or less force into shutting up.

His comments lent a manner of grace I don't normally see on that site.

Sapper Mike

No souls and no hearts. This is so silly!

After the initial rush of contempt, what do you feel about such people?

Actually I feel amused first.
Then I feel amused some more.
Then I worry about the future of mankind.
Then I go back to feeling amused.

Matt: The great thing about the Internet is it gives voice to thousands of people who would've otherwise never been heard. Of course, the worst thing about the Internet is it gives voice to thousands of people who would've otherwise never been heard.

I can understand to an extent why you'd want to see what other people are saying, but there comes a time when it ceases to have any benefit other than to make yourself angry for no good reason. There are idiots in this world. There are morally clueless people in this world. I know they exist, but why get yourself worked up over the deranged words of a few? If there had never been an Internet, you would've never have known of their existence and been no worse for it. They add no value to your life or to the world as a whole. They are irrelevant in every possible way.

Let them sit and stew and rage in their own downward spiral of hate and bitterness until the worms consume what hate left behind.

The same sort of sentiments are appearing on Atrios' thread about the disaster.

Nice accuasation against Republicans " lot of folks on the right accused Clinton of wagging the dog as well to take attention off his personal and political failures."

Nope, not Clinton. Statemanship all the way.

Oh, and Lucianne.com is 'a solon, not a saloon.' One of the best sites on the the web, for those not familiar with it.

MonkeyPants
Imperial Falconer

thanks jennie and sondrak....
thats very kind of you, even though i am a roman catholic :))

i just felt inspired with the kaddish :)

as for the Democratic Underground, I am going to write to the Internet Haganah and see what they can do, they seem to be good at taking down and hacking hate sites and al-qaeda inspired crap

Internet Haganah probably won't bother, Marc. You should see what the sites they do try to take down are saying today.
In some ways, it's better than DU. Honest hatred is a bit easier to deal with than insanity.
The arabic-language jihadi sites are virtually dancing in the streets. But at least they are crediting it to Allah rather than Bush.
The Iraqi government is too.
Sigh...

Oh boy. What is wrong with these people? There's rather a lot of threads along the same vein.

They display the sort of venomous hatred you'd associate with particularly evil-spirited children. What a bunch of malicious little brats.

Is there nothing that will stop them starting up their resentful roundelay? Couldn't they put a sock in it for a couple of days, you know, until the memorial service?

Please add Democratic Senator Nelson of FLA to the list of trolls who step turn tragedy into a political jab.

On NPR a few minutes ago I heard him imply? that "his (Bush) administrations failure to "properly" fund NASA is to blame.

"When you have to borrow from Peter to Pay Paul..."

A United States Senator. What a pig.

All the anti-American garbage that I have read I think that people are jealous of America when they win and when they lose. Its human nature to doubt the person in charge and sometimes people need to be reminded.

well kathy, it is a nice thought though... :)

The people at Democratic Underground disgust me.

While the rest of us cry and mourn they're gleefully playing another round of "Conspiracy Theory".

"I went thru the trouble of registering at DU to challenge the idiot. My post was deleted in

Thanks Oliver,

Without your comments here, we might just have gone on decrying DU; now we can focus on the real enemy, the Freepers!

Perhaps if you see something "equally repugnant" over at FR, you could leave comments there, or in a thread on a site discussing them. Or your own site. Nice use of misdirection, though. You're a real pro. You baited a few people (myself included, I suppose) into moving the discussion away from the loonies at DU. Nice work.

Patrick said: "On NPR a few minutes ago I heard him [Nelson - FL] imply? that 'his (Bush) administrations failure to 'properly' fund NASA is to blame."

...which is a slap in the face to all the engineers at NASA. His statement is implying that NASA realized that the mission was inherently unsafe due to lack of proper funding, but chose to proceed anyway. Which is bullshit, since no engineer with the slightest bit of ethics would put budgetary concerns over the safety of the crew. He's directly called NASA's commitment to safety into question. If Nelson was trying to insult Bush, his aim was way, way off.

It may sound strange to say this, but I honestly hope that Nelson was speaking out of ignorance; the idea of ANYONE using today's tragedy as a political soapbox is enough to make me put my fist through a wall. It's bad enough hearing some anonymous idiot over at Atrios' site or Democratic Underground use this as a cheap excuse to indulge in some Bush-bashing; but even though I'm initially enraged, I'm able to temper my anger by remembering this: Anonymous postings are the refuge of people would would say inflamatory nonsense they'd never dare speak in public. It's where the word "troll" comes from after all. But the idea of a SENATOR doing it fills me with a rage I can't even find adequate words for. Please tell me that Nelson was misquoted or taken out of context, somehow. I'll try and give him the benefit of the doubt. For now.

It's at the end of a long day, and I'm tired, but more and more, it's days like this that make me cry for my country, and for humanity in general, because on these particular days, it doesn't feel like we're making any real progress towards becoming a better species. I mean, seven people DIE in what many people would consider to be humanity's most noble undertaking, and before the bodies are even recovered, more than one person will have the audacity as an excuse to air unrelated greivances. What ever happened to having respect for the dead?

I think I'm gonna go have a second glass of wine now.

I have a dim view of humanity, but suggesting that Columbia blew up because of ratings is idiotic. If that were the case, Clinton would have blown up the International Space Station to gloss over Monica's blowjob.

Funny, I don't see anyone mourning or crying, here; just the "feel-good" sanctimony of a lynch mob with a convenient excuse. Pardon me for interrupting your feeding frenzy long enough to observe that there's little to distinguish your own particular strain of wackiness from the one you're criticizing.

I suppose, thus girded, we can expect a few of you to actually get around to enlisting THIS time?

Enlisted once. How many times did YOU raise your right hand, Max Bell-without-e-mail? Spent 2 years in Pleiku.

Oh dear. I suppose that makes me a capitalist stooge....

No, I'd never enlist in the military. Why go through all that to satisfy the skewed sensibilities of some irrelevant jackasses?

I am reading several sites (mostly left) and people are unhappy about the tragedy but some seem to suggest that Bush is lucky. You can guess why they made such a nasty comment. Thank god I am not part of the Left.

You know, if people hate all things American, it is fairly easy to take a flight to Afghanistan or Iraq. I mean there is no law to prevent anyone from leaving. Go for it. If you hate us and everything we believe, then head to Tora Bora...You might even contribute to their local economy :)

Ok, look here all you posters. The people who said those things disgust you, me and just about everybody else who read them whether they're left, right, top, bottom, back, front or middle. You're insane if you think that those represent the views of "the left" -- they don't.

If you think that lefties are all like these sick bastards with crackpot theories about bush blowing up the shuttle for political points, you've made a huge mental error. You've demonized a whole set of morality-neutral politial ideas because there are a couple of sick bastards out there who've bought into the idea of a right-wing conspiracy.

Further, being liberal does not imply that somebody "hates all things american," is a "hate america firster" or is "anti-american." It has nothing to do with that. It is perfectly american to acknowledge that our system is pretty good, but could use some improvement. Harping on those problems is nothing more than an attempt to improve on them. So please, get over this idea that everybody on the left is out to turn this place into Tora Bora or Beijing, or whatever else you think those nasty lefties are trying to do.

I just want to say that My prayers are with the Families of the Astronauts, tha People of N.A.S.A., and with the investigators. This is a sad time for OUR COUNTRY andit is a time that We should all come together. Please remember them in your prayers.
Thank You.

Well, they made my "The 'Rot in Hell' Even if they do not Believe Awards" on my Columbia comments today.

Yesterday was the first time that I knew of that site, from reading the story here and when I read that their Admin. cut off the discussion on DU he started a new, censored thread it sent more chills. Hell, Slashdot.org does not even do that.

Before anybody goes giving them "niceness points" for censoring their users, remember they are keeping you from hearing what these people really think no matter how crazy it is.

Hardly fits with their propoganda, fits well with their practice.

Yeesh, and people on the left thought the "Vince Foster was murdered by Hillary" crowd was, shall we say, out there....

RIP brave souls. For those wondering about that poem that Reagan quoted, it was written by an RAF pilot during the Battle of Britain. He died in an air accident in 1941.

Yes.

What should one say when George Bush is accused for someone elses problem again? Something rude or something polite?

I say both!

Well I guess that if I get drunk and shit in my pants I should blame Mr Bush for it?

No.

I just say that I am saddened that this accident has hit the Americans who do such an excellent work in space science.

However dramatic the loss of the shuttle is there are more serious things happening on the ground. I would like to say that Political Correctness and the unlimited illegal immigration to the Westen Word is a creeping disaster of much greater magnitude.

Wow. Those posts were heartless and reactionary, but they were nothing compared to the vitriol you guys have spewed. Kudos!

Max; I was in Korea in '51. I can say I was there and I helped stop the N Korean tide. I was also in Korea in '62. I also know how Korea looks today. This was the U.S. at their best. ,

I was also in Vn in '69 & '70.

I also spent 3 1/2 years in 7th Army in Germany. Remember the old Army saying. Don't bullshit a bullshitter, because we will rip you a new one.

The Marshall plan restored Germany, we also restored Japan. Of courss the Japanese will not bite the hand of those who helped them.

My wife is Japanese, 50 years this June. Her brother surrendered on a bypassed island fully expecting to be killed. Americans gave then candy bars, cigarettes and food.

"Further, being liberal does not imply that somebody "hates all things american," is a "hate america firster" or is "anti-american." It has nothing to do with that. It is perfectly american to acknowledge that our system is pretty good, but could use some improvement. Harping on those problems is nothing more than an attempt to improve on them. So please, get over this idea that everybody on the left is out to turn this place into Tora Bora or Beijing, or whatever else you think those nasty lefties are trying to do."

The statement is correct, but unfortunately not an accurate description of reality. In fact, conservaties not only recognize our system as imperfect, we believe that it will always be so. So your point is completely meaningless since it is not the basis for our criticism.

What are the most common things we hear from liberals these days? How America is at fault for the terrorist attacks (we didn't give money for day care as OBL did, our policy on Israel/Palestine, immigration policy, racism), and we're going to war in Iraq "for oil" or as an election strategy for Bush. Even the Democrats that voted for the war resolution are now pretending they didn't, just so they can disagree with Bush.

Pelosi and Daschle have nothing to add or say. They merely repeat the shibboleth that Bush "hasn't made the case". If they have something to say they should say it. There was a debate before congress and they refused to participate because they knew voters wouldn't support them.

What rational conclusion can we draw from Democratic leaders skipping a debate, then claiming they want one? Perhaps that the purpose of the call for debate is to delay action and achieve a goal they are unwilling to discuss openly? It certainly isn't honest and open debate, which was available and passed over.

These are serious issues, and Democratic Leaders are not treating them as such. Nor are Democratic supporters who pretend that these issues don't exist.

Not every liberal is anti-american. But anyone who simultaneously holds America to an impossible standard and forgives any opposed country virtually any offense are blame-america firsters. If you feel that describes a few too many people in your crowd, that sounds like a personal problem you should address. I don't remember a post that equates all liberals with blame America firsters, and claiming so is a standard rhetorical ploy to deflect the issue. In fact, the comments here refer specifically to the posters at the DU.

I think the interesting thing is that when we talk about the blame-america firsters you feel the need to defend liberals. What does that say? While Oliver claims the DU posters are wingers without effect on the mainstream, you equate the two groups by accepting criticism of specific DU posters as criticism of liberals. Odd. I wonder which of you is correct.

Some of these theorist should look into our modern psychotherapy. You know you all need it.