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he said what? part 22

Jimmy Carter on the Middle East:

"One of the key factors that...arouses intense feelings of animosity in the world is the festering problem in the Holy Land, the Israeli occupation of the West Bank and Gaza and the inability of Israel to live in peace with its neighbors," he said.

Someone please tell him it's awfully hard to live in peace when your enemies are constantly strapping bombs to themselves and blowing your neighborhood up. Thank you.

Link from The Shark, whose brother joins the IDF today.


Maybe he's getting older, and his mind is just wandering a bit...

Well, they did give him that Nobel prize ... maybe this is his way of saying "thank you"?

Uh- Huh.

Any good scientific studies correlating peanut growing (all those pesticides yanno) with early onset Alzheimers???

I know it will incur your wrath, but it is awfully hard to get along with your neighbors when they launch missle strikes that kill your children. Ok, they would stop with the missles if they would stop with the bombs. Well, they will stop with the bombs as soon as they stop with the missles....See a pattern here?

Carter is a good guy and has done more for peace then either of the Bushs' ever has or ever will.

Now I have shown my true colors as a liberal and am ready for the flaming I am about to recieve.

I fully agree with Tim, because your example shows just one side of the medal but I never expected anything else. You can't just put it on the palestieans, it is a deadly ying and yang. Where one steps back, the other comes forth.

Um, no, it is not just a "cycle of violence" where both sides are just bombing each other. The main problem is the Arab world's refusal to accept Israel's existence and their numerous attempts to exterminate it over the years.

Whoever thinks the fight is about "occupation" apparently doesn't understand that Israel captured the territories in 1967 while defending itself in a war that it didn't want, didn't start, won and tried to sue for peace by giving back the territories in exchange for recognition. The response of the Arab world was the Khartoum Resolutions

I agree with the shark that it is not as simple as I made it out to be, but then again, it's not as simple as Michele makes it out to be either. I have no idea what can be done to fix the situation but a good start would be to try and stop the violence, but don't ask me how to do that either.

I wish your brother the best in the IDF and hope for peace so that he sees no harm or harm to others.

A bit of revisionism. Read your history of the 1967 war. Israel preemptively struck. Were they going to be invaded? Yep. Israel should withdraw to its pre-1967 borders. Let's not forget that Bush let the entire peace process collapse. If not for 9/11 he'd still be spending 50% of his time (as he did pre 9/11) on vacation. Damn facts.

"The Geneva Convention requires an occupying power to change the existing order as little as possible during its tenure. One aspect of this obligation is that it must leave the territory to the people it finds there. It may not bring its own people to populate the territory. This prohibition is found in the convention's Article 49, which states, 'The occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies.'" John Quigley, "Palestine and Israel: A Challenge to Justice."

As Golda Mier stated (perhaps not an exact quote), "when the Palestinian Arabs love their children more than they hate the Jews, there will be peace".

I used to have sympathy for the Palestinian Arabs, but I don't believe that that they or their leadership wants peace with the Jews, they want to kill them. All of them.

Well, Tim - in just the past year or so, Israel has only gone in screaming after a some of her kids have been blown up my "martyrs."

Again, I will reiterate the fact that Israelis do not train raise their children to be suicide bombers; they do not dress their kids up like terrorists for school pageants; they do not dance in the street with sheer joy when one of their soldiers kills someone and they do not purposefully seek out schools and buses and crowded markets to bomb.

Does anyone actually believe that Israel's enemies will be satisfied by a withdrawl from the territories captured in the Six Days War?

Their goal is to eliminate Israel; push it into the sea. Appeasement will not work.

Jimmy is a policy buffoon, and should leave his ineptitude in the last century, where it belongs.

Oh, I fully understand what you are saying Michele. I just don't think that Joe Palestinian would be as objective. He does not care if the missle that kills his wife and kids was supposed to kill the bomb maker next door.

The point is, Tim, that there doesn't have to BE any Israeli missile before he'll be willing to blow up women and children. He's taught this in school, not by his family getting killed. More importantly, you're acting as if all thta has to happen is the Isarelis would stop firing missiles, then the Pallies would just go home. That's not true--they blow women and children no matter WHAT the Israeli leadership is doing. The only difference is what the Pallie leaders say, which changes based on how Israel behaves. The bombing never ceases--in fact, it intensifies when the Israelis stop! So why shouldn't they keep down the number of bombings by suppressing Palestinian resistance? World public opinion is against them no matter what they do--the UN is as unjust as they come. What recourse do they have but self-defense?

In 1999, most Israelis were prepared to return the territories to form a Palestinian state. They were hopeful and trusting that peace would be forthcoming shortly. What happened instead? Intifada II. They're not hopeful and trusting anymore.

It's simple to me.
Israel has said unequivocally "We will give you 95% of the territory you desire. The rest remains negotiable. What you need to commit to is a true desire for peace, recognize Israel's right to exist, renounce violence and go after the perpetrators of violence".

Arafat said no.

So did Hamas, Hizbollah and the Al Aksa Brigade.

And I quote:

"If the Jews all gather in Israel, it will save us the trouble of going after them worldwide."

That's the ugly face of Hezbollah, the Beirut-based organization led by Sheik Hassan Nasrallah, a demagogue whose rhetoric grows more violent by the day.

Nasrallah plumbed new lows recently with an impassioned speech extolling Palestinian terror bombers as "great martyrs who astonished the world," and predicting that the current Mideast violence "will not end in political reconciliation" with the Israelis, but in their ruin.

Palestinian terror bombings are "moral, humane, legitimate, honourable and permissible," Nasrallah declared."


But it's all Israel's fault, I'm so sorry. Damned Jews. They really should try harder ...
Self defense? Now? 67? Screw that. They should have just bent over and taken it ...


Carter a good guy? Maybe. I'm sure he meant well.

But he was a shitty president, and not really in any position to criticize anyone else's presidency. Not even Clinton's.

And for those who think that Israel is as much, if not more, to blame as the Palis - is ANY end justified by purposely blowing up babies and small children? And would you have the same opinion if they started blowing up our children over here, simply because some of us support Israel?

collateral damage--casualties are an awful reality of war, of military conflict. They are to be avoided and prevented as much as is humanly possible.

When a non-combatant, an infant a wife a mother--any one gets in the way of a weapon that's headed for a target it is a tragedy.

When those same non-combatants are targeted. When an infant is considered a legitimate focus of your sides' wrath, it is worse than a tragedy. It is a travesty.

When you take that step, no matter how noble your cause, no matter how just you feel or how righteous your indignation, your side becomes wrong.

you become a monster. Deserving only death

This is the path many palestinians have chosen.

Well, they will stop with the bombs as soon as they stop with the missles

Why on earth would you think that? I am genuinely curious about how you got that impression. The statements of the Palestinian Arabs say otherwise: they say the Jews must all leave (the moderates say this; the radicals say "The Jews must all be killed", the peaceniks say "The Jews may continue to live as second-class citizens in Palestine"). Their actions don't say that either; their tactics are those of people fighting a genocidal war.

Is it just that you think any sane human beings would feel this way, so you figure the Palestinians must? Or are there specifics about this situation that lead you to this conclusion?